Using a Pump as my a "overflow"?

rcdude1990

rcdude1990

Active Member
Hey guys been a while since i've been on due to much researching and stuff for my Half circle 80 gallon tank.
i went to my LFS and they suggested that i could put a pump inside the display tank to act like a "overflow." drawing a blank on the correct words but basically the pump would bring the water from my DT and bring it down to a wet/dry. and then he said we can put the same pump "GPH" in the wet/dry to insure that the flow and such is equal.
i've done my research and have tried to do a DIY overflow but its a bit difficult with my tank (because there is a 3 inch piece of glass coming across the top of the tank.) so the suggestion i received got me a little excited but i just want some opinions on it. there is some concern as of fish getting sucked into the pump, but i would put a sponge padding over the intake. also if a power outage occurs all circulation would just stop (and ill be sure to put a little air hole in the tubeing to insure there is no syphon.
so i need your opinions guys... would this be a good way to turn my half circle tank into SW
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
The is a very bad bad bad idea. Please, save yourself the headache of finding this out the hard way.
Even if you used the same size pump both in the tank and in the wet/dry you will NEVER be able to get the flow from each pump to match 100%. There are going to be variances do to the head pressure on the wet/dry pump vs the pump in the display tank.
All it takes is a very tiny amount more water being pumped out of the display tank to flood your wet/dry and water will go all over your floor. Or a very tiny amount more water from the wet/dry pump to run the sump dry and burn out your pump and probably flooding the display tank.
The only time when puting a pump in the display tank would work is if you're pumping water up and out into a tank that sits higher than the display to where the water can flow back down by gravity out of the sump or wet/dry and back into the display.
Who ever told you this has probably never tried it.
 
xcali1985

xcali1985

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3469770
The is a very bad bad bad idea. Please, save yourself the headache of finding this out the hard way.
Even if you used the same size pump both in the tank and in the wet/dry you will NEVER be able to get the flow from each pump to match 100%. There are going to be variances do to the head pressure on the wet/dry pump vs the pump in the display tank.
All it takes is a very tiny amount more water being pumped out of the tank to flood your wet/dry. Or a very tiny amount more water from the wet/dry pump to run the sump dry and burn out your pump.
+1 Consider this, the top pump has virtually no headloss pumping downward. The sump pump has what ever the height of the stand and tank is plus any elbows and such. You instantly have a problem with the top pump, pumping faster than the bottom one.
If the bottom one failed for any reason, you would be left with your DT being pumped out depending on what level it was placed inside. Then your pump would run dry and fail.
Another what possible problem would be your DT pump failing and the sump pumping all the water back up into your tank and overflowing the actual DT. Then like stated above your Sump Pump would burn out.
Cheaper in the long run to buy a HOB overflow. While they have their own risk/rewards there is a lot less risk involved than the 2 pump method.
 
rcdude1990

rcdude1990

Active Member
wow thanks for the heads up!!! screw that plan then lol, back to square one... its just this 3 inch piece of glass that is covering the take, making a overflow box impossible... if i do one of those DIY PVC overflows, is it safe/ok if the elbow that comes over the edge of the tank down to the wet/dry longer than 3 inches?
im going to have to draw it out on paper, ill post a pic
as you see the glass on the back of the tank that goes towards the front of the tank is ~3inches so the elbow going from the tank down to the wet/dry would be around 3.5 inches long...
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Are you certain the tank is glass, it kinda looks like acrylic to me. If you can build an actual reliable pvc overflow then it should be fine to go around the 3" bracing. Some of those pvc overflow designs you see online though can be rather tempermental but there are some that do work pretty good from what I understand. Perhaps beaslbob will chime in on his design.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I'd be curious to get a good look at the whole tank.....The pieces on top have me guessing if glass or acrylic......A quick question which will take some guess work out of things.....The edges of the material (the 3 panels) what is holding them together......Silicone, or is the seaming invisible.......

I do have to agree with 2 earlier posts about trying to match pumps.....That as stated will never work out reliably.......
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Bets, place your bets!
I'm gonna say acrylic, one because it looks like routed edges, two because I don't see the distinct green coloration from the edges that glass will typically have and three the reflective properties look plastic to me.
The reason I ask is because I already see holes drilled into the brace on the one end. Thinking it wouldn't be terribly difficult to drill the back of the tank for a built in overflow and skip on the pvc overflow idea. However the o.p. may be able to just run a pvc overflow through the existing hole.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I can't tell for sure.....I was leaning glass by how the euro bracing is on the tank, and if it's acrylic very poor euro bracing IMHO......But your right you don't see a green hue to the pieces, but if it were Starphire (low iron) glass you wouldn't have that tell tale sign though.......Possibly extensive edge prep on the glass work, and holes in the panels could be either.....
 
rcdude1990

rcdude1990

Active Member
hey sorry for the late reply... i believe the brace is glass.. its weird, the back of the tank is holding the brace up with silicone and the front has no silicone, as if its one piece with the front glass.
the silicone on one of the sides is coming off a little bit but i don't want to remove the whole silicone piece because i feel like the tank will give way.
on the back of the tank you can see a brown sort of metal brace thing with a hole in it which i have the canister intakes, that i would plan to try and cut out a rectangle or something to place the U - tube part
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcali1985 http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3470229
Silicone confirms glass.
Haha, not necessarily. He did say the whole front brace has no silicone. It's not uncommon at all for builders to add silicone to their joints. Also, some of the silicone on the sides is coming off and the tank isn't leaking? Or is he talking about coming off of the sides of the brace? The guy who owns one of the lfs's down here built all of his acrylic tanks the same way with the bracing that looks similar to how bracing on glass tanks is done. It's actually cheaper and easier to build that way since you don't have to sacrifice a large piece to make the top brace like some builders would do. Instead they can use smaller or scrap pieces to make it happen. Another curiosity to me is the fact that this is a half round tank (not a bow front). Not sure which manufacturer would build such a tank out of glass. And a custom builder making a half round glass tank...hey, forget about it lol. Also, the black piece around the top front of the tank that he's calling glass, is it tinted glass or smoked acrylic? Inquiring minds would like to know.

At any rate, glad you dropped in Beaslbob. I've toyed around with the pvc overflow idea a little bit but not a ton. Some folks claim they can be ran reliably and other have tried with not so great results. I know that mine worked o.k. but something in the back of my mind never really trusted it so I opted not to run it. You seem to be pretty confident with your design.
Edit...I think Oceanic made glass tanks like this. I did see one pic of the bracing that they used but it was the typical plastic trim normally found on tanks, slightly different shape ofcorse.
Got any full shots of the tank and stand?
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3470241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcali1985 http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3470229
Silicone confirms glass.
Haha, not necessarily. He did say the whole front brace has no silicone. It's not uncommon at all for builders to add silicone to their joints. Also, some of the silicone on the sides is coming off and the tank isn't leaking? Or is he talking about coming off of the sides of the brace? The guy who owns one of the lfs's down here built all of his acrylic tanks the same way with the bracing that looks similar to how bracing on glass tanks is done. It's actually cheaper and easier to build that way since you don't have to sacrifice a large piece to make the top brace like some builders would do. Instead they can use smaller or scrap pieces to make it happen. Another curiosity to me is the fact that this is a half round tank (not a bow front). Not sure which manufacturer would build such a tank out of glass. And a custom builder making a half round glass tank...hey, forget about it lol. Also, the black piece around the top front of the tank that he's calling glass, is it tinted glass or smoked acrylic? Inquiring minds would like to know.

At any rate, glad you dropped in Beaslbob. I've toyed around with the pvc overflow idea a little bit but not a ton. Some folks claim they can be ran reliably and other have tried with not so great results. I know that mine worked o.k. but something in the back of my mind never really trusted it so I opted not to run it. You seem to be pretty confident with your design.
Edit...I think Oceanic made glass tanks like this. I did see one pic of the bracing that they used but it was the typical plastic trim normally found on tanks, slightly different shape ofcorse.
Got any full shots of the tank and stand?
I'm curious as well, because I'm straddling the fence on the material........

Building that way might be cheaper, but we know it does nothing for strength to the build, so really not saving anything, but your bracing pulling apart over time....
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3470274
I'm curious as well, because I'm straddling the fence on the material........

Building that way might be cheaper, but we know it does nothing for strength to the build, so really not saving anything, but your bracing pulling apart over time....
I agree. I wouldn't build a tank that way. But I think some people do because of the cheap and easy factor. The tanks seem to be holding up ok at the fish store but his joints really look like crap IMO. His braces look just like that. Maybe this is why the silicone is coming off on RCDudes tank.
 
rcdude1990

rcdude1990

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3470241
Haha, not necessarily. He did say the whole front brace has no silicone. It's not uncommon at all for builders to add silicone to their joints. Also, some of the silicone on the sides is coming off and the tank isn't leaking? Or is he talking about coming off of the sides of the brace? The guy who owns one of the lfs's down here built all of his acrylic tanks the same way with the bracing that looks similar to how bracing on glass tanks is done. It's actually cheaper and easier to build that way since you don't have to sacrifice a large piece to make the top brace like some builders would do. Instead they can use smaller or scrap pieces to make it happen. Another curiosity to me is the fact that this is a half round tank (not a bow front). Not sure which manufacturer would build such a tank out of glass. And a custom builder making a half round glass tank...hey, forget about it lol. Also, the black piece around the top front of the tank that he's calling glass, is it tinted glass or smoked acrylic? Inquiring minds would like to know.

At any rate, glad you dropped in Beaslbob. I've toyed around with the pvc overflow idea a little bit but not a ton. Some folks claim they can be ran reliably and other have tried with not so great results. I know that mine worked o.k. but something in the back of my mind never really trusted it so I opted not to run it. You seem to be pretty confident with your design.
Edit...I think Oceanic made glass tanks like this. I did see one pic of the bracing that they used but it was the typical plastic trim normally found on tanks, slightly different shape ofcorse.
Got any full shots of the tank and stand?
the silicone that is coming off is from the top brace, not the actual silicone holding the tank together; so no, no leaks
also the part i circled that saids "made of glass" is not tinted, the trimming of the tank as you can see below is brown, so its the trimming design that makes that glass part look black
hears some more pics, it looks like ill have to make a video of the tank... i think a canister filter is the onlyyy way to go with this tank, i just never used a canister filter before and heard there not great (although some will say they work fine).


tomorrow i will be able to take a picture of the cabinet
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcdude1990 http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3470333
the silicone that is coming off is from the top brace, not the actual silicone holding the tank together; so no, no leaks
also the part i circled that saids "made of glass" is not tinted, the trimming of the tank as you can see below is brown, so its the trimming design that makes that glass part look black
hears some more pics, it looks like ill have to make a video of the tank... i think a canister filter is the onlyyy way to go with this tank, i just never used a canister filter before and heard there not great (although some will say they work fine).


tomorrow i will be able to take a picture of the cabinet
If that is the case and the tank is in fact all glass then I'd recommend you address the issue with the silicone coming off of the brace. That bracing is an important structural component of the tank and if it's coming apart then you could run into some real issues down the road. I've had a tank fail from a bad seam before and trust me when I tell ya it aint cool lol.
There's nothing wrong with keeping a canister filter. You going for a fish tank or a reef tank?
 
rcdude1990

rcdude1990

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3470340
If that is the case and the tank is in fact all glass then I'd recommend you address the issue with the silicone coming off of the brace. That bracing is an important structural component of the tank and if it's coming apart then you could run into some real issues down the road. I've had a tank fail from a bad seam before and trust me when I tell ya it aint cool lol.
There's nothing wrong with keeping a canister filter. You going for a fish tank or a reef tank?
any recommendations as to re-siliconing the brace?
also im going for a FOWLR with LR and probably a anenome at most
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcdude1990 http:///t/391318/using-a-pump-as-my-a-overflow#post_3470345
any recommendations as to re-siliconing the brace?
also im going for a FOWLR with LR and probably a anenome at most
Cut out the brace, clean the glass with rubbing alcohol or accetone. Let it dry completely, re-seal it with GE RVT-108 silicone, let it cure for a minimum of one week. Is the tank empty now or full?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top