Water boarding---for or against?

m0nk

m0nk

Active Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2507578
The President is set to veto this practice. What is your opinion? I say we need this tool to fight terrorism. At least we're not cuttin' heads off like they are.
News link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080308/...h/bush_torture
I think you might be mis-interpreting the article if you think the President is going to veto the practice. He's going to veto the bill banning the practice.
I'm not going to weigh in on this because of my personal moral beliefs and such, just wanted to note the above.
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by m0nk
http:///forum/post/2507597
I think you might be mis-interpreting the article if you think the President is going to veto the practice. He's going to veto the bill banning the practice.
I'm not going to weigh in on this because of my personal moral beliefs and such, just wanted to note the above.

Mistake noted & post edited. I know there is a recent thread about wb'ing but afaik I'm not breaking any laws posting this one.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
We are a civilized country. We shouldn't need torture to obtain information. We are better than the people that torture their captives and we should act like it.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
voting for or against/vetoing etc and actually doing or not doing are 2 different things.
As a child of an 82nd Airborne Green Beret with 4 tours of Nam under his belt, this is actually not the worst of the worst of techniques. WE are NOT the only ones with certain techniques used. We actually learned a few things from the Vietcong

Now with that said, we nor anyone should use these techniques loosely. They were not used loosely back then. Now, it seems things like this are used by loose cannons. And with that said, it seems to be condoned
.
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2507618
We are a civilized country. We shouldn't need torture to obtain information. We are better than the people that torture their captives and we should act like it.
What if you knew that the individual in custody had information about a suitcase nuke in a majorly populated area?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
I'm just not sure what the big deal is regarding water boarding. You take a known Al Qaeda leader (they don't get to be in that position by selling girl scout cookies...), and pour water on their face for a couple of minutes to make them think they are going to drown.
Not harm done, and it seems to work. I'm all for it.
Now, it shouldn't be used for prisoners of war in accordance to the Geneva Convention. Terrorists are not covered by it however.
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2507665
I'm just not sure what the big deal is regarding water boarding. You take a known Al Qaeda leader (they don't get to be in that position by selling girl scout cookies...), and pour water on their face for a couple of minutes to make them think they are going to drown.
Not harm done, and it seems to work. I'm all for it.
Now, it shouldn't be used for prisoners of war in accordance to the Geneva Convention. Terrorists are not covered by it however.
Well stated and factually correct as per usual.
 
abethedog

abethedog

Member
I'll defer my answer to the families of the 911 victims and those that have served our county in foreign wars.
or
I'll just say yes
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
If there is good reason to use WBing then use it. It should only be used when needed. WB is uncomfortable, being beheaded alive is torture.
If it saves 1 innocent life, WB is a useful tool.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2507627
What if you knew that the individual in custody had information about a suitcase nuke in a majorly populated area?
Torture isn't the moral way to obtain information in my opinion.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2508174
Torture isn't the moral way to obtain information in my opinion.
Is being "moral" more important than saving 100's or 1000's of lives?
My personal opinion is make "other" interrogation methods available by presidential order. If they caught someone planting dirty bombs and knew there were already some planted I say let the experts use whatever method needed. The "experts" almost all universally agree that torture usually isn't the best method to gain information so I would trust their judgment. I think limiting the regular military guys to a set list of methods is probably a really good idea. I could see how emotions could trump common sense if you thought the guy had some of your buddies held captive.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I think it is important to clear up the left wing lies about the bill Bush plans to veto. This bill does not specifically ban waterboarding, it limits methods to 19 contained in the army field manual. Even John McCain has called for the veto of this bill and he is against waterboarding. But like he said the CIA shouldn't be limited to those 19 methods as long as they aren't using torture.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2508224
Is being "moral" more important than saving 100's or 1000's of lives?
Absolutely! If we discard our morality just to stay safe what do we have left?
I was in the military for 20 years to protect our way of life. I would not have hesitated to give my life to protect the principles of the United States. It would be a shame to discard those principles because then we become something else. Something not worth fighting for.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
See, I don't get the torture aspect.
If you tied someone down to a chair and made them watch a scary movie would you be torturing them? Waterboarding does no physical harm; it scares them.
I don't know. Clearly it is unpleasant as it works. But, to me, torture is something that actually inflicts physical injury or damage.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I personally don't think waterboarding is torture. It is a grey area for sure, I understand the arguments on both sides of that. I honestly don't understand the line of thinking that things like sleep deprivation and waterboarding shouldn't be used against those who don't take prisoners. I think the situation has to dictate how moral a certain methods use is.
 
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