Water boarding---for or against?

1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2511172
and another thing... "we are the greatest nations to ever exist"?????
I bet a bunch of countries would debate that.

Probably. Of course, as soon as a Tsunami hits and we are the first to arrive bringing aid they quit debating for a few minutes. As soon as their neighbor parks tanks on their border their rhetoric and debate with us becomes plees for assistance. As soon as a famine hits it's us they turn to for food, etc.
Name an empire, throughout history, that has been the world's only superpower and yet fought to give independence to people instead of enslaving them?
I stand by my statement; We are the greatest nation to ever exist.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2511190
.... Your morals should not be involved in something you are not doing. ....
That's a totally unworkable comment. If I am not murdering someone should I not have moral qualms about murder? If I don't work in a homeless shelter should my morals not be involved in curing homelessness?
Of course our morals are going to influence the way we feel about issues. I've never hit a woman; Should I not be offended when a man abuses his wife? I've never blown up a school bus full of kids. Should I not be offended when the terrorists decide to hit one? I'm not involved in any of those situations, yet I have "morals" regarding each example.
Sharkbait, surprisingly, I think you need to slow down and read what people are actually saying. We all agree the terrorists are monsters. Many of us agree they will kill everyone of us given the chance.
We're simply asking and discussing an important issue; At what point do we become like them?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2511172
and another thing... "we are the greatest nations to ever exist"?????
I bet a bunch of countries would debate that.

Other countries might debate that but I think they would probably lose in short order. If you look at the positives that have resulted from the existance of the United States in such a short period of time, hard to argue.
That doesnt make us perfect. We have had out blunders but I for one think they are far outweighed by the positives.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2512217
That's a totally unworkable comment. If I am not murdering someone should I not have moral qualms about murder? If I don't work in a homeless shelter should my morals not be involved in curing homelessness?
Of course our morals are going to influence the way we feel about issues. I've never hit a woman; Should I not be offended when a man abuses his wife? I've never blown up a school bus full of kids. Should I not be offended when the terrorists decide to hit one? I'm not involved in any of those situations, yet I have "morals" regarding each example.
Sharkbait, surprisingly, I think you need to slow down and read what people are actually saying. We all agree the terrorists are monsters. Many of us agree they will kill everyone of us given the chance.
We're simply asking and discussing an important issue; At what point do we become like them?
Once again since I guess you could not understand my stance . I’m not talking about decent society, I’m talking about war…… you should be with Bill Oreilly, you can spin anything .
Who am I to tell you if you should be concerned about a school be blown up or not. Why are you bringing it
“home” I’m talking over in Iraq. If a solider wants to spit pig blood in a terrorist mouth I don’t care, he does his job and I’ll do mine. If a CIA op wants to cut the neck of a terrorist with a butter knife, I don’t care.
Let me sympathize with you, yes blowing up schools and shooting students and the hungry and homeless
And everything else I have no control over is morally repugnant. That has noting to do with torture.
Would you would rather watch women and children be killed then to torture an enemy to find a camp?
I’ll tell you what I’ll send you beheading, videos, women and kids being killed cause they wanted freedom and rights. YOU Watch those videos and tell me that we should treat these animals like humans.
I don’t know how far we can go before its enough. I can still do what I want and sit here and debate this with members, so IMO keep on torturing.
I never said you had to agree with me.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2512284
Other countries might debate that but I think they would probably lose in short order. If you look at the positives that have resulted from the existance of the United States in such a short period of time, hard to argue.
That doesnt make us perfect. We have had out blunders but I for one think they are far outweighed by the positives.
The fact is that other countries would argue that. We are the wiping boy. Some country has a problem we come to the rescue and fix or help fix the problem. Only to turn around and be hated again. For what?
So my question is why??? why help every other country when you have homeless, hungry and illiterate people? Why not help our own country
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2513416
We are the wiping boy.

I'm trying to figure out what this means. Is this a busboy that cleans crumbs off of tables? Or perhaps someone that helps you clean up after doing #2?
It just doesn't fit the context so I'm curious what it's supposed to mean.
On your second point, I'm with you there. If we don't take care of ourselves then it won't be very long becore we're unable to help anyone at all.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
thanks Bang for a good little chuckle. I don't think I would want to be the person of your 2nd choice.
(well, maybe for my babies....

I wonder of all the people we have helped who would/will come to our rescue. Ummmmm

The scariest people on the planet are firmly implanted in the "civilized" areas of the middle east and those countries are even afraid of them.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by lovethesea
http:///forum/post/2513645
I wonder of all the people we have helped who would/will come to our rescue. Ummmmm

The Chinese might, since their economy relies so totally on us.
Wait, actually I think we are deeply in debt to China.

These days, I kinda feel like the Romans must of felt. The greatest civilization the world had ever known, and hated by every one not Roman.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2513697
The Chinese might, since their economy relies so totally on us.
.

actually I think they are either trying to kill us or "dumb" us down with their so called products. WHY are we (Sams Club) buying garlic from China????? garlic???
between the lead and poisons.............what the heck!!!
 
mfp1016

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2513697
These days, I kinda feel like the Romans must of felt. The greatest civilization the world had ever known, and hated by every one not Roman.
And liberals are leading us right down the same hedonistic, Caligulous route that helped destroy their empire.
 
mfp1016

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2512216
Probably. Of course, as soon as a Tsunami hits and we are the first to arrive bringing aid they quit debating for a few minutes. As soon as their neighbor parks tanks on their border their rhetoric and debate with us becomes plees for assistance. As soon as a famine hits it's us they turn to for food, etc.

Lets not forget the how much the US has done to stabilize the oil market for almost all of the other continents except for ours and our southern brothers.
 
mfp1016

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by lovethesea
http:///forum/post/2513893
actually I think they are either trying to kill us or "dumb" us down with their so called products. WHY are we (Sams Club) buying garlic from China????? garlic???
between the lead and poisons.............what the heck!!!
Ha, most of the people still think their government can predict Earthquakes. I think it will be awhile before they are dumbing us down.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
my comment about China trying to dumb us down was in regards to their continuing effort to poison us with their lead based paint. It amazes me that we are still catching these items little by little as they come out the of the containers in the shipyards.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2513432
I'm trying to figure out what this means. Is this a busboy that cleans crumbs off of tables? Or perhaps someone that helps you clean up after doing #2?
It just doesn't fit the context so I'm curious what it's supposed to mean.
On your second point, I'm with you there. If we don't take care of ourselves then it won't be very long becore we're unable to help anyone at all.
Ok oops i meant whipping boy, not wiping boy. Then again I could use that in the context that I was saying. Be a good nation and wipe our a-- for us, since you do it for every other nation. I meant whipping though.
Maybe I could slow down a bit but I see and hear this nonsense about what has to be done and what shouldn’t be done, just drives me nuts.
Now to address journey. I eat meat, I can’t kill a cow or a chicken or any other animal. I just can not stomach killing and innocent animal, doesn’t mean I’ll starve. there are people to do that job so I can eat a fat steak grilled medium rare over charcoal.
It’s in the same realm, maybe you can not torture some one cause it’s morally wrong to you. If it gets the job done and at the end of the night we get but a shoe size of a terrorist then it worked out.
Someone can do that job and lay their head on the pillow and have sweet dreams.
To sum it all up, there are some things the general public should not be told about or shown.
Black ops, covert ops, and shadow ops and even the navy seals, that stuff should be kept in the dark.
 
mfp1016

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by lovethesea
http:///forum/post/2514105
my comment about China trying to dumb us down was in regards to their continuing effort to poison us with their lead based paint. It amazes me that we are still catching these items little by little as they come out the of the containers in the shipyards.

I know. Just conversing with you....
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2515551
Ok oops i meant whipping boy, not wiping boy. Then again I could use that in the context that I was saying. Be a good nation and wipe our a-- for us, since you do it for every other nation. I meant whipping though.

Got it, now the chips all fall into place. Thanks for the clarification. I should have been able to see that, I see it now.
 
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