Water boarding---for or against?

1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by abethedog
http:///forum/post/2509897
I would be interested to know (doubt it is possible, though) if waterboarding or similar methods developed the intel that helped thwart an attack....
"A CIA program to administer aggressive interrogations to top Al Qaeda leaders brought America more valuable information about planned terror plots than all of the government's other intelligence gathering efforts, a former director of central intelligence, George Tenet, has declared. Mr. Tenet said the program was needed to deal with threats that emerged after September 11, 2001, including reports that there might be nuclear bombs in New York."
Tenet later said: "I know that this program has saved lives..."
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by phelpz
http:///forum/post/2509807
How many attacks had there been before Sept. 11th on US soil?
1993 World Trade Center bombing.
What else?

War of 1812: Anyone read on Dolly Madison. The Whitehouse was burned
The Japanese attacked the west coast via sub, and ballon bomb. If you count the Aleutian Island campaign and Pearl, those were attacks on future US soil.
The Germans landed small assault forces on the E coast too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks...g_World_War_II
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2509886
Not if it leads to another forum Suzy. (for the record, one of our Mods has a great informational site she created and maintains. We hold the same rules to ourselves) Links to competitors, potential competitors, other forums, sites that advertise, etc. are all removed.
It is my brothers forum for our local pond club. Where someone sent me a pm to come here and help the seahorse peeps. You want no links to us and you want us to have none to you? Even if our site is for a local fish club?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2509913
It is my brothers forum for our local pond club. Where someone sent me a pm to come here and help the seahorse peeps. You want no links to us and you want us to have none to you? Even if our site is for a local fish club?
I've asked for clarification to make sure.
Suzy, pleeeaaaaassssse remember, it's not a "you", "them", kind of thing. we Mods are just members of the community who volunteer to moderate. It's not "our" site.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2509638
My argument is two fold: 1. is it torture? 2. Does the Constitution apply to foreign terrorists?

1. is it torture?
Big debate going on about this. I think so but it really doesn't matter what I think, just an opinion. Admittedly it is, at most, a less invasive form of torture.
2. Does the Constitution apply to foreign terrorists?
It is clear that the Constitution applies to all persons on U.S. soil. It's not so clear if it applies to overseas captives.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by phelpz
http:///forum/post/2509807
How many attacks had there been before Sept. 11th on US soil?
1993 World Trade Center bombing.
What else?
Most of the others were US Embassies. These are considered US soil though.
Dar es Salaam, Kenya
Tanzania, Kenya
Nairobi, Kenya
And of course, Pearl Harbor.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by abethedog
http:///forum/post/2509897
I would be interested to know (doubt it is possible, though) if waterboarding or similar methods developed the intel that helped thwart an attack.
I refuse to believe that the war on terror is being kept alive by the right trying to keep conservatives in office. No Way!

I don't think you need the "right" in office to keep the war on terror alive and well but we sure as hell wont win if we hand power to people like Pelosi who would rather go on vacation than deal with the FISA issue. It has enough bipartisan support to easily pass in the house just as it did in the Senate but Pelosi wont bring it to a vote
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2509854
Perhaps I am naive, but I have little or no fear of foreign terrorists attacking US SOIL again.

I wish I could be as fearless as you. I'm thinking that if our borders remain easy to cross it's only a matter of time before there are more attacks. These extremists still hate us and still want us dead.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Well as a VET who has seen the horrors of war let me just say BY ANY MEANS NESSASERY if it is going to save American lives (Trust me water boarding is something I would have wrote home about) but there are many things i have done I still have nightmares about but war is war
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2508174
Torture isn't the moral way to obtain information in my opinion.
im tired of that excuse. Why are we (the US) held to a diffrent standard? Whats the big deal if we play the game like everyone else.
How do you think your going to get info.......... milk and cookies? Rationally ask for it? Not let them see their families or maybe a game a tidily winks, loser spills the intel Come on... were not talking about a civilized country, they are animals of the lowest form.
They cut the heads off of people who were over their for humanitarian aid and to bring them up with technology and for schools and what not. You want to throw morals into it? Get real, pull your head out of the sand.
Maybe this war is not a war that we really need to be in but were their. No one has to like it but the fact remains we are involved. Since we are involved then we do it with any means necessary to win. Water boarding, female blood, ----, pork smeared bullets, I could not care less. Get the job done with minimal amount of life lost.
Bleeding hearts are the reason why this country is falling apart. Everyone has feelings everyone wants to be heard. Theirs a reason why some people were told to shut up in school.
Just MY opinion.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2510038
Well as a VET who has seen the horrors of war let me just say BY ANY MEANS NESSASERY if it is going to save American lives
And make no mistake, this is the case in any war. Of course, that is not the case nowadays. And that is due to the media coverage of wars we have had since the advent of TV. Now that the horrors of war is in our living room...
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2509476
I'm basically astounded by the degree of "rights" and consideration that we want to impart to criminals, terrorists, etc. Overall, at some point, we as a society will need to address the rights of good people who are victimized by the actions of evil people. To me, if anything, this will be the downfall of our society. It is pretty disgusting how law breakers, criminals, terrorists get so much consideration. While innocent people get victimized and little or no justice.
Wake up people and think about who's rights you defend. There are better causes out there.
but a few post ago you said torture was immoral? So if you want to protect your rights and freedoms which by some of the post don’t care for their freedoms and rights, YOU PROTECT THEM BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. If that includes torture then so be it.
American women wearing burkas and getting beat in the streets and stoned and crying while it gets done, what are you say then.
A bit of a dramatization but it to get a point across we have certain liberties that that country doesn’t have, because we fought for it and people died for that cause.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2510038
Well as a VET who has seen the horrors of war let me just say BY ANY MEANS NESSASERY if it is going to save American lives (Trust me water boarding is something I would have wrote home about) but there are many i have done I still have nightmares about but war is war

Agreed, read "Flags of our Fathers", or "Flyboys" both by James Bradley, and find out what it is to fight all-out, and win by any means necessary.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2510094
And make no mistake, this is the case in any war. Of course, that is not the case nowadays. And that is due to the media coverage of wars we have had since the advent of TV. Now that the horrors of war is in our living room...
And because we don't deal with it everyday in real time right out side our doors it has to be wrong. So we cry and yell stop the torture they are people too. BOO HOO. Till it an attach happens again on us soil and then every body piles on the wagon and with pitch forks and torches, then six months we cry again stop the torture.
Sooooooooooooooo lets keep it over their and get the intel me want.
Hang them by the short hairs and cut them with razor blades and rubbing alcohol and prod them with red hot dental tools.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Torture isn't the moral way to obtain information in my opinion.

Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2510082
im tired of that excuse.
Excuse? That wasn't an excuse, it was an opinion.
Why are we (the US) held to a diffrent standard?
Because we have higher standards.
Whats the big deal if we play the game like everyone else.
Then we become like everyone else instead of the greatest nation on Earth.
 
notsonoob

notsonoob

Member
I just want to see how morally superior these hacks are when they are in reality facing death!
I bet that the tunes will change rather quickly when the possiblity of bombs going off at the local library....
However, they will deny it....as always...but they know the truth.
Or should we continue living in a world where people die, then we act? Much like Virginia Tech or the local Wendy's?
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2510139
Excuse? That wasn't an excuse, it was an opinion.
Because we have higher standards.
Then we become like everyone else instead of the greatest nation on Earth.
we are involved in a war, standards are gone, no one says sorry when they throw that round down field. No one says whoops when they set off a IED or VBIED, no one said “it isn’t personal”. Morals get people killed.
Your right it was not an excuse it was a bleeding heart opinion, my fault, I apologize.
I got news for you if we don’t step up to the plate and start dropping these animals and get intel what ever way it takes, we won’t be this great nation you so proudly disparage with your war morals and standards.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2510163
we won’t be this great nation you so proudly disparage with your war morals and standards.
I strongly resent that. When have I ever disparaged the United States?
I appologize if my personal standards have offended you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top