Water Change

[tiencvu]

In my opinion, water changes removes toxic and replaces other
elements. A 10-20 % water change should be perform weekly
Read on....
Weekly water changes are probably the most important part of maintaining good water quality. Weekly water changes of around 15%- 20% of the total water volume will correct many potential problems in water quality. The water changes will bring fresh mineral rich water into the tank. The fish, plants and bacteria use up the trace minerals in the water and by adding new water weekly you replace these minerals. By removing water you reduce the amount of nitrate and ammonia that builds up in the water as well. Weekly water changes also help remove other toxins or pollutants that can build up in the tank.
Remember that most tropical fish live in environments where currents or rainfall regularly bring fresh water and remove waste. By providing weekly water changes we help to simulate this natural and much needed requirement. An important note about water changes is to make sure the total doesn't exceed a third of the water volume. It is also important that the water that is added is the correct pH and temperature and free of chlorine etc.
Hope this help.

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by beaslbob
What is irresponsible is not passing on time honered and proven techniques. The newbie deserves better.
Thank you for saying that. I wish you would START being more responsible with your posts to new hobbiests. Your techniques are NOT time honored techniques.
I understand why you would make the correlation between a sewage treatment plant and your aquarium but the idea is to NOT turn the aquarium into a sewer to start with. It may be fine with you to use tap water but to declare to new hobbiest that it is the PREFERRED method is very irresponsible and is setting them up for failure in my experience. To tell them that water changes are dangerous and not desireable is even worse.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by SquishyFish
....
This is not what I want my fish to swim in.
It goes on to discuss at lenght "heavy metals" and how they effect the body. Sites on the negative effects of h/m were easy to find. I could find nothing about the benificial effects nor anything about plant life removing them.
Squishy
I agree. Heavy metals are bad and should not be in our tanks at toxic levels. And are not in tap water at toxic levels that millions of people drink every day. Sure they have to be lower in our tank that in our tap water because such things as corals in inverts are more sensitive. But your research has not gone far enough. Now research plant life or macro algaes as applied to marine tanks. They universally state the macros export heavy ions as well as consume ammonia, nitrAtes, phosphates and carbon dioxide.

 

[overanalyzer]

Originally posted by beaslbob
specifically that plants filter out heavy metals. They do not have to benifit just filter them out. that filtering is well documented
Bob - go ahead and post some links or articles (please make sure you cite appropriately the sources). I have yet to find an article bakcing this philosophy
What is irresponsible is not passing on time honered and proven techniques. The newbie deserves better.
Sorry bob - what is irresponsible is preaching totally unconvential methods as pure fact and then providing nothing to back-up your evidence. At the very least you need to post a current picture of your tank and how it looks so these newbies can see what following your path will do to a tank.

 

[overanalyzer]

FYI - for you newbies who need bob's guidance here is an early picture of his tank ... play spot the yellow tang ....

 

[clownfish1452]

I would just like to say I do not do water changes. Only because the water in tanks evporavetes so fast. If I did water changes I would be changing the water and add water so much my well could go dry. My tank has been running pretty well since March of 2002 so I guess my way works for me.
Sarah

 

[minersj]

Now most of the time I am a "lurker" on this board and pop in to read posts, but now I have a statement of my own to make.
According to Bob's selected-yet-unidentified source, plant life removes heavy ions. Using this theory, plants would then be removing all ions from the water, which would include free floating + and - ions, unless plants can distinguish between heavy ions and other ions or positively or negatively charged ions. IF plants were "filtering out" ions from solution, one would expect the pH to be maintained at a constant 7.0, which occurs when the H+ ions are in equal concentration with OH- ions, since the plants would have removed both the free H+ ions and the OH- ions. Therefore, according to your "sources" the addition of plant life would cause the pH to neutralize out at 7.0 in solution. This is clearly not the case.
Bob also states that plants "filter out" heavy metals, impurities, etc from tap water. Since matter cannot be created nor destroyed, where exactly are these heavy metals going? Are the heavy metal atoms being absorbed by the plants? If they are absorbed by the plants, do any of your tankmates eat the plants? If so, the fish/invertebrate has just now absorbed the heavy metal into it's system, which can be toxic.
I strongly encourage two things:
1. Regular water changes to remove the impurities in water from the tank.
2. Not believing everything that you read, especially on the internet. Anyone can post anything on the internet.
Now I will go back to lurking.

 

[overanalyzer]

excellent point minersj (and please post as often as you like )

 

[elfdoctors]

I don't mean to butt it but I felt a clarification was in order.
Heavy Metal toxicity is very unlikely to occur from eating plants. Small amounts of heavy metals will be absorbed by all sealife. They are difficult to remove once they are absorbed. Heavy Metal toxity tends to be a much bigger problem as you go up the food chain. That is part of the reason that carnivorous fish or scavengers are much more dangerous to eat then herbivorous ones. Unless all the fish from an area are unsafe to eat, any advisories for eating fish from a particular area always are the predator fish or scavengers (northern pike, muskies, walleyes or catfish in my area). Unless you are feeding your plant eating fish to other fish it would be highly unusual for heavy metal toxicity to show up in a saltwater aquarium. (Assuming the water doesn't have massive levels to begin with).
Heavy metals also tend to concentrate in bony growths/shells. Snails and other lifeforms with calcium based structures will tend to remove (sequester) the heavy metals from a more toxic free form.
I agree that water changes should be done regularly especially by newbies.

 

[minersj]

Elfdoctors, Thank you for the clarification.
I did not mean to imply that everyone's fish were going to die from heavy metal toxicity, rather stating a point that the heavy metals do not just disappear as Bob has eluded to in numerous his posts. The heavy metals must go somewhere, preferably out with the old water when you do water changes!
Sara

 

[bang guy]

I do believe that Macro Algae sequesters some undesireable trace elements. To what degree I don't know. Trimming the Algae and throwing it out will remove anything it has absorbed. I tend to throw out old growth and leave the new growing shoots of algae in the hope that I'm removing some bad elements. In this regard I agree with Beaslbob. I believe they are useful... in a remote tank like a refugium. I do not believe they are a cure that eliminate the need for using pure water or water changes. Perhaps a tool to scrub the water but not the cure. It has been documented that some macro algaes sequester Iodine. It doesn't appear to help them grow but they will sequester it. Perhaps to make them less palatable for fish. I see no reason why they wouldn't sequester other undesireable elements for the same reason.

 

[minersj]

Agreed. I definitely promote plant life in a tank, like stated, in a fuge. Plants do absorb and synthesize many elements and compound in order to survive and are great at removing certain products from tanks, such as nitrate, phosphates, etc, and therefore pruning the old growth helps maintain a healthy system. However, plants do not remove all impurities and are not the cure for every tank problem. Water changes, in combination with plant life, help reduce the toxins present in our tank systems.

Sara

 

[beaslbob]

well I am glad we all agree that plants are good for a saltwater system. Further that each ion of say copper does not stay in the water column and go from invert to coral killing each and every one.
So the newbie has a choice. He can purchase a 55g and then setup and learn to operate another $1200-1500 of equipment. Or he can spend $100.00 to establish a system that requires nothing more than replacing the water that evaporates. The newbie should have the choice.
I also hope the newbie takes a good look at my tank from months ago. It is an electronic camera flash shot. and therefore plants and rocks are not very light. Notice how the ugly rocks have their original ugly colors on them. notice how the glass has not been scrapped and is free of algae for 6 weeks. I hope the newbie also notices how many algae blooms he fought in his tank with the extra $1500 of stuff. I hope he remembers the fish deaths after water changes. I hope he also remembers how parameters finally stabilized when the refugium was added especially the plants were added in the refugium.
So how's the tank today. this picture is hand held, available light(from tank) olympus om/2, 800 asa, 1/125sec, f8. Sure it is still a work in progress but if this is the dreaded ugly plant life, well I'll let the newbie decide.
Meanwhile to check my input water I simply watch the 6:00 news. No need to worry about ro/di filters at the wall mart machine, my unit, or the LFS.

 

[reefnut]

Face it Bob, your methods suck.

 

[elfdoctors]

From what I can gather about this discussion we can probably make the following conclusions.
1.) A saltwater tank can be managed without water changes.
2.) Not changing the water decreases adding new fertilizers and may prevent algae overgrowth.
3.) Plants (Macroalgae) can help keep tank waste products stable. 4.) There is much less room for error as waste products are more likely to build up without water changes.
As a newbie I feel that water changes should be done regularly because:
1) Newbies tend not to have experience (raising plants/refugiums/lighting etc) required to not do water changes.
2) Newbies tend to overstock, not knowing that a saltwater tank can't support the same amount of life that a freshwater tank can. ("My fish are doing great. I think I'll add another one")
3) Newbies don't know if their tapwater has as good a natural balance as BeaslBob's seems to be. I know mine has a lot of iron (I am close to the Iron Range of Minnesota where it is mined) and almost no Calcium, so I am not as lucky as he is, even though I have good quality wellwater.
For most of the country, the concerns about heavy metals are not important.

 

[bang guy]

Pretty good assessment IMO. Good job
My general opinion isn't that new hobbiests make mistakes... it's that they have not developed the intuition required to determine if the tank is healthy with just a glance.

 

[elfdoctors]

Praise from the BangGuy! I'm honored!
I was unaware of your other points. Thanks, they make sense and would also support regular water changes. I certainly can't tell at a glance if things are okay. My wife tells me I stare at the tank too much!

 

[rbmount]

Where's the fish????

 

[trigger78]

I didn't mean to stir up all this but it has been great so far. There is no way I'm going to just up and quit doing water changes because it works for a selective group of people. I wouldn't put my fish in that type of situation. I "might" test his theory with a plant, lr, ls, and invert crew to see how it goes if i can find some research or other successful tanks. Even if I did use this mthod I would change the tap water to RO mixed for top offs. Anyone willing to get harped at for revealing there experience with a method of not doing 25 to 30% water changes on or throughout a month, please feel free to reply without my insults. Al

 

[reefnut]

Just to clarify a little... Bob does not use LR or LR.
LR, LS, "Plants", cleanup crews, etc. are all great to have. Personally I have a 40g fuge FULL of plants (macro algae). Macro algae’s help export nitrates and phosphates. IMO, they are a great addition.
There was a thread a while back in the Reef Forum on people that do not do water changes. Surprising to me there were a few that do not do water changes with some nice tanks. But with out good maintenance, good water and experience it's safer, better and more practical to perform water changes IMO.
IMO, anyone blindly suggesting the use of Tap Water, No water Changes... plants are the miracle cure, and other bad suggestions not mentioned in the thread... is irresponsible. It is very apparent that he has a lack of understanding for water chemistry.
Again IMO, new hobbyists need the safest most successful procedures in place to help ensure a successful tank... The last thing I want to see is someone giving up on the hobby. It wasn't to long a go that I came into the world of saltwater and it can get pretty aggravating when no matter what you do your tank doesn't do right. Even if one was to follow the most approved of procedures there are still obstacles, much less if one follows pour procedures.
JMO, gotta go…