Welfare vs. Working. Where's the incentive to work?

reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/60#post_3500476
Thats an easy question. Why would someone fire one employee who is alreay doing the job for minimum wage? Easy:
1. Some bosses are jerks
2. Some managers are evil
3. Some business owners are incompetent
Pick any of the above.
As far as being okay with supporting others, I wouldn't say I enjoy it, but I am a realist and this current system works. Is there a better system out there? I'd be open to that, but I would have to actually see that it works, and that it won't end up costing more.
Nobody who makes a habit of firing otherwise good employees for personal reasons will be in business or have their positions for long, NOBODY.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500491
If only that were true.
It's fact. I've worked for several companies over the years and mostly in supervisory or management positions. I have never seen nor heard of a single instance of a employee being fired simply because they weren't liked. I did see one productive employee fired but he was a few bubbles off plumb, he'd spend his lunch hour sharpening his knife.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
If only that were true.
You obviously don't run a business. Your perception is misguided. Been in business for ten years and I have only fired a total of 3 employees.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/60#post_3500453
Do you suppose there are more jobs in the oil field than fracking and drilling? The weeds don't hoe themselves. Tanks and equipment need painting. Thats the problem with you Libs, you are always looking for reasons why solutions wont work if it doesn't involve creating another constituency group you can bribe with government handouts.
How about we make it easy for those with handicaps who would like to work do so? Isn't it better to let them work for minimum wage and cover some of their expenses than to just treat them like a potted plant?
Why would someone take a low-paying job in a rural area where it would cost them more in living expenses than what they would make? Oil fields aren't down the street from a major metropolis. They're out in the sticks where living quarters are limited, and the one's that are available the owner's have jacked up the rental rates so high, you need four or five people sharing a dump just to make it somewhat affordable. Then there's transportation issues, food costs, other living expenses...
Many handicap individuals DO work minimum wage jobs. That's not the point. They would love their own independence where they have to live with Mommy and Daddy because they can't afford to live on their own. That's not possible with the current mimimum wage..
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Why would someone take a low-paying job in a rural area where it would cost them more in living expenses than what they would make?  Oil fields aren't down the street from a major metropolis.  They're out in the sticks where living quarters are limited, and the one's that are available  the owner's have jacked up the rental rates so high, you need four or five people sharing a dump just to make it somewhat affordable.  Then there's transportation issues, food costs, other living expenses...
Many handicap individuals DO work minimum wage jobs.  That's not the point.  They would love their own independence where they have to live with Mommy and Daddy because they can't afford to live on their own.  That's not possible with the current mimimum wage..
What rural areas do you frequent?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500505
Why would someone take a low-paying job in a rural area where it would cost them more in living expenses than what they would make? Oil fields aren't down the street from a major metropolis. They're out in the sticks where living quarters are limited, and the one's that are available the owner's have jacked up the rental rates so high, you need four or five people sharing a dump just to make it somewhat affordable. Then there's transportation issues, food costs, other living expenses...
Many handicap individuals DO work minimum wage jobs. That's not the point. They would love their own independence where they have to live with Mommy and Daddy because they can't afford to live on their own. That's not possible with the current mimimum wage..
You obviously don't know what you are talking about. In Pinedale Wyoming they will start a kid out of high school out at 18 bucks an hour. In many cases they have a company rig so the commute isn't a thing and even if they do the field starts less than 10 miles from town. The nearest larger town to Pinedale is Rock Springs. They had an ad for a Pizza hut delivery driver back in 08, middle of the crash. 14 bux an hour. The Sonic Closed down because they couldn't hire people for what they could pay. Pinedale is the County Seat and has a population of 1300 people. It don't get more sticks than that. I just checked. 2 bed 1 bath for 770 a month, 1 bed 1 bath furnished all utility sat tv and internet paid 950 a month.
Food isn't cheap and there's a reason. It a world class hunting and fishing area, 50 minutes to Jackson and less than 2 hours to Yellowstone. Ski areas and a Grand Tetons are right there too.
As far as the disabled people let em work for minimum wage and give them SSI. SSI alone wont pay their bills so those that are able should be working. In my experience Downs people like feeling useful. But some of them aren't capable of living on their own either so it isn't like a job is gonna set them free no matter what.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500506
Most SS and Medicare recipients take more out of those programs than they put in. Why do you think the budget for those programs are so huge?
I got all mine back, working on the wife's now. Work harder LOL!
On the other hand My Brother died 43, Cousin at 44 Grandmother, stepdad and dad at 68 and one grandpa at 58. 68 is a bad number in my family LOL! Maybe I am collecting what they didn't.
Had the government lock boxed SS instead of spending it from day one the government would be in a lot better shape. The program would still have the same basic issues but we wouldn't have as much national debt.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500493
It's fact. I've worked for several companies over the years and mostly in supervisory or management positions. I have never seen nor heard of a single instance of a employee being fired simply because they weren't liked. I did see one productive employee fired but he was a few bubbles off plumb, he'd spend his lunch hour sharpening his knife.
Guess you've never worked for UPS.....A bunch of idiots that are incompetent, that worry about dumb sh*t that doesn't matter.....A bunch of dumb bunnies sitting; micro managing that don't have a clue, because half of these "college educated individuals" have never done the job.....And yes I believe Jerthunter statement is true!!!!!!!
Being at UPS and watching management and I'll be polite is like watching a bunch of monkey's f**k a football......
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Interesting. I used to interact with our UPS driver on a near daily basis and he loved his job. Even when they were auditing his route.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Didn't say anything about the job......The auditing is a bunch of BS.....A bunch of "goons" telling you how to be more efficient on something you do everyday, and they can't understand that a computer layout of an area doesn't or couldn't be a true representation of an area......Why does it take 5-6 management "goons" to look over a route, when it would take 1 and the driver to run the route for a week to tweak it.......Why, because management or supervisors have no real clue what it takes to do the job......
Reef, I run an 18 wheeler house to house, business to business through the city, and my "supervision" thinks 10 minutes a stop is sufficient.....Pulling 3,000-4000lb skids with a pallet jack off a trailer is sufficient.....Or better yet me bringing my rig into your residential neighborhood......This is the stupidity I deal with everyday......The package car driver.....You can put those little trucks anywhere.......You don't have to worry about power lines, weight restrictions, bridges and over passes.....or better yet turning tight corners as the kids let out of school.....
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Reef I guarantee if you would poll or talk to 100 UPS guys Freight and Ground over 95% would tell you what I'm telling you.....An inside joke is we make money by accident.....
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500519
Reef I guarantee if you would poll or talk to 100 UPS guys Freight and Ground over 95% would tell you what I'm telling you.....An inside joke is we make money by accident.....
LOL! I've heard the stories but Now that I think of it back when I was still working our UPS guy said it got crazy at the holidays but if you didn't mind hustling it was a great job. Could just be the particular locations these guys are in, Western Montana and Denver.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500510
What rural areas do you frequent?
Guess you've never been to Texas.
How many Wyoming's could fit in the State of Texas? In West Texas, the nearest "town" to an oil rig facility could be 50 miles. And that town may only have 10,000 - 15,000 people in it, with one or two grocery stores, and little or no rental space. The nearest major city may be 100 or more. You up for a 100 mile one-way commute to make $10/hour?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500732
Guess you've never been to Texas.
How many Wyoming's could fit in the State of Texas? In West Texas, the nearest "town" to an oil rig facility could be 50 miles. And that town may only have 10,000 - 15,000 people in it, with one or two grocery stores, and little or no rental space. The nearest major city may be 100 or more. You up for a 100 mile one-way commute to make $10/hour?
Roughly 2.8. But the population of the whole state is only about half a million. It's more sparsely populated than any part of Texas and it's still workable. Same deal in North Dakota/Eastern Montana fields. Just cause you don't get rural life doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people willing to do it. Back around 2006 the one store in town where my brother lives was paying 12.00 an hour to start and that included full benefits. At the time he was renting out one bedroom apartments, furnished with all utilities except telephone for 850 a month.
Who in the oilfield only pays 10 an hour? Me and a friend were doing better than that back in the late 70's painting equipment. Maybe there are people in Texas dumb enough to do the job for 10 but if they head up north they can make a lot better money. One guy I know just turned down a job on the North/South Dakota border that was basically data entry for a little over 20 an hour and he turned it down.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500737
Roughly 2.8. But the population of the whole state is only about half a million. It's more sparsely populated than any part of Texas and it's still workable. Same deal in North Dakota/Eastern Montana fields. Just cause you don't get rural life doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people willing to do it. Back around 2006 the one store in town where my brother lives was paying 12.00 an hour to start and that included full benefits. At the time he was renting out one bedroom apartments, furnished with all utilities except telephone for 850 a month.
Who in the oilfield only pays 10 an hour? Me and a friend were doing better than that back in the late 70's painting equipment. Maybe there are people in Texas dumb enough to do the job for 10 but if they head up north they can make a lot better money. One guy I know just turned down a job on the North/South Dakota border that was basically data entry for a little over 20 an hour and he turned it down.
I'm talking about those menial brush cleaning jobs you think high school kids can just run out to after school to do.
Don't get rural life? LMFAO. I spent half my childhood in a town called Davilla, TX. Population 300. It used to have a small grocery store and gas station, but that shut down decades ago. The closest "town" is Bartlett. Think it's only 10 miles or so. They actually have a Dairy Queen. I used to get up every morning at 5AM to gather eggs out of the chicken coops my Aunt processed and sent out to stores. Then I'd head out to the fields and pick up a couple hundred of 50 lb. bails of hay for 10 cents/bail. When I got back to the house around 6, I went back out to the chicken coops, gathered more eggs, then hand washed poop off the eggs to stick in those big cartons you see at the store. Nighttime was for frog giggin' and setting trout lines on the river banks to try and catch some catfish from the next day's dinner. That or go coon hunting for some skins we could sell for around $20. If the season was right, we'd get up in the morning for a dove hunt, or maybe go down into the Pecan groves and shoot a few squirrel to put on the pit. Then there was always deer season. Naw, I know nothin' about rural life....
BTW, my brother has worked in the oil industry for over 40 years. Used to do the perforating of the wells. I've been out with him quite a few times...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393443/welfare-vs-working-wheres-the-incentive-to-work/80#post_3500742
I'm talking about those menial brush cleaning jobs you think high school kids can just run out to after school to do.
Don't get rural life? LMFAO. I spent half my childhood in a town called Davilla, TX. Population 300. It used to have a small grocery store and gas station, but that shut down decades ago. The closest "town" is Bartlett. Think it's only 10 miles or so. They actually have a Dairy Queen. I used to get up every morning at 5AM to gather eggs out of the chicken coops my Aunt processed and sent out to stores. Then I'd head out to the fields and pick up a couple hundred of 50 lb. bails of hay for 10 cents/bail. When I got back to the house around 6, I went back out to the chicken coops, gathered more eggs, then hand washed poop off the eggs to stick in those big cartons you see at the store. Nighttime was for frog giggin' and setting trout lines on the river banks to try and catch some catfish from the next day's dinner. That or go coon hunting for some skins we could sell for around $20. If the season was right, we'd get up in the morning for a dove hunt, or maybe go down into the Pecan groves and shoot a few squirrel to put on the pit. Then there was always deer season. Naw, I know nothin' about rural life....
BTW, my brother has worked in the oil industry for over 40 years. Used to do the perforating of the wells. I've been out with him quite a few times...
If you've been in the fields you'd think you'd learn something.... We aren't discussing after school jobs for kids here. But I am sure plenty would make the trip out to the fields for 10 an hour. The more remote fields have man camps for the workers. They wont be hiring kids for anything.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Gee everyone sits around complaining about the job, management and so on.
Kinda thought in a free market you could always quit.
 
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