Well done Mitt, you took it to him last night...

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/80#post_3497238
"War on coal" is another useless buzz word. How many states in this country have viable coal production capabilities? I've seen the type of jobs, and the people who work in that industry. "Coal lifer's" do everything in their power to try and insure their children aren't stuck with having to work in the coal mines. What the current life expectancy of a coal miner?
Same thing with oil and natural gas production. We have one of the largest fracking fields in the country. Small towns that were inidiscriminate dots on a map are now bustling with jobs amd people looking for places to live. However, that's another lifestyle that's demanding where most individuals couldn't handle the rigors or dangers that come with those jobs. My brother has been an oil rigger for over 30 years now. I've been out in the fields with him. Believe me, a college kid couldn't survive a week working in that environment, much less the majority of women looking for work.
Coal lifers might not want their kids to follow in their footsteps but how many kid's college educations where paid for with money earned in the coal industry? It's better than flipping burgers.
Oil fields have a whole lot of jobs. Getting on a rig crew is a top of the line job for someone without a specialized education and those guys make big money. I got my first oil field "job" when I was like 9 years old hoeing weeds around a tank battery. I know someone who built a business around painting pumpjacks and other equipment. There are numerous grub jobs a college kid could easily do in the fields.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/80#post_3497244
And therein lies the fundamental problem with the economy that no one wants to talk about. In order to compete in a global economy, you have to have cheap manufacturing, which means you are basically priced out of the United States. So the question becomes, does someone like Walmart and their CEO, top executives and the like, who make tens of millions of dollars... Do they collectively make enough money, to where if they decided to take a "pay cut", could you use that money to hire more people at home?
You get into a dangerous area cause when you start letting someone determine how much is enough they can carry that logic right down the food chain. It's interesting you mention Walmart who sells the same stuff Target, Kmart and countless others do. Apple is the richest company in the world. I don't think the T shirts with their logo on it are made in this country. I've often wondered why if Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are so intent on giving away most of their fortunes why they didn't build something like a computer manufacturing plant in this country and run it as a non profit. Seems to me it would be sustainable. I'd pay a little extra for a machine I knew was 100 percent american produced.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497251
Coal lifers might not want their kids to follow in their footsteps but how many kid's college educations where paid for with money earned in the coal industry? It's better than flipping burgers.
Oil fields have a whole lot of jobs. Getting on a rig crew is a top of the line job for someone without a specialized education and those guys make big money. I got my first oil field "job" when I was like 9 years old hoeing weeds around a tank battery. I know someone who built a business around painting pumpjacks and other equipment. There are numerous grub jobs a college kid could easily do in the fields.
It's called "location". 90% of any operational oil fields are in rural areas that are difficult to access by some 18 - 22 year old kid. The Shale project here in Texas has been a nightmare for these companies who are hiring people. There's no place to live anywhere near the fields or where the work is occuring. What living quarters are available, the owners are gouging the people who try to rent them. Some guy outside of San Antonio has a run-down POS house he originally rented to a family for $400/month. When the Shale project came to the area, he kicked the family out and put a $1500/month price tag on it. Four or five workers went in together to rent it, and they modified their shifts so that there'd be a bed available when they got home. Oh yeah, I'm sure a kid who spent 4 -5 years getting a college degree would want to do the back-breaking work required on an oil rig...
The average pay of a coal mine worker is $50K - $60K per year. God knows the number of hours worked to get that much. Not sure how many kids college education would get paid with that income. My kid goes to a local college, and I pay around $14,000/year for tuition, fees, and books. If she went to UT Austin, that amount would double.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/80#post_3497244
And therein lies the fundamental problem with the economy that no one wants to talk about. In order to compete in a global economy, you have to have cheap manufacturing, which means you are basically priced out of the United States. So the question becomes, does someone like Walmart and their CEO, top executives and the like, who make tens of millions of dollars... Do they collectively make enough money, to where if they decided to take a "pay cut", could you use that money to hire more people at home?
Jay Leno took a pay cut to keep a few more of his staff on his payroll. Bet Trump would never do that in a million years.

 

[acrylic51]

Agree....I don't begrudge anyone for making a profit.....My point is some of these companies that do outsource and get for cheap and then bring it home and rake us over the coals with inflated prices.....It kills me when I go to an ATM machine and it asks what language and I see English at the bottom of the list......

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497265
It's called "location". 90% of any operational oil fields are in rural areas that are difficult to access by some 18 - 22 year old kid. The Shale project here in Texas has been a nightmare for these companies who are hiring people. There's no place to live anywhere near the fields or where the work is occuring. What living quarters are available, the owners are gouging the people who try to rent them. Some guy outside of San Antonio has a run-down POS house he originally rented to a family for $400/month. When the Shale project came to the area, he kicked the family out and put a $1500/month price tag on it. Four or five workers went in together to rent it, and they modified their shifts so that there'd be a bed available when they got home. Oh yeah, I'm sure a kid who spent 4 -5 years getting a college degree would want to do the back-breaking work required on an oil rig...
The average pay of a coal mine worker is $50K - $60K per year. God knows the number of hours worked to get that much. Not sure how many kids college education would get paid with that income. My kid goes to a local college, and I pay around $14,000/year for tuition, fees, and books. If she went to UT Austin, that amount would double.
Maybe that's part of the trouble......No real meaning or idea of what hard work is.....Maybe to much is taken for granted or handed to the younger generation.........

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497265
It's called "location". 90% of any operational oil fields are in rural areas that are difficult to access by some 18 - 22 year old kid. The Shale project here in Texas has been a nightmare for these companies who are hiring people. There's no place to live anywhere near the fields or where the work is occuring. What living quarters are available, the owners are gouging the people who try to rent them. Some guy outside of San Antonio has a run-down POS house he originally rented to a family for $400/month. When the Shale project came to the area, he kicked the family out and put a $1500/month price tag on it. Four or five workers went in together to rent it, and they modified their shifts so that there'd be a bed available when they got home. Oh yeah, I'm sure a kid who spent 4 -5 years getting a college degree would want to do the back-breaking work required on an oil rig...
The average pay of a coal mine worker is $50K - $60K per year. God knows the number of hours worked to get that much. Not sure how many kids college education would get paid with that income. My kid goes to a local college, and I pay around $14,000/year for tuition, fees, and books. If she went to UT Austin, that amount would double.
The county seat of the area where my brother lives is 1300 people. It doesn't get more rural and those folks make out just fine with the gas boom there. They were hiring kids right out of high school for 18 bux an hour. That isn't rig work either. A sonic drive in in the nearest "big" town to them which is about 80 miles south closed down because they couldn't keep help at wages they could afford to pay. About 3 years ago my SIL e mailed me an ad for the Pizza hut there. Hiring delivery drivers for 14 bux an hour. My SIL was waitressing at the local Bar. There where nights where she pulled down better than 300 in tips alone.
As far as college kids if they get the right degree they aren't going to be working grub jobs so where's the issue?
Know anyone who works a coal mine? I haven't talked with the guy in about 7 years but one of my brother's Wyoming buddies is a mine worker. At that time he was making close to 30 an hour and his girlfriend made about 20 as a 9-11 dispatcher for the county. That will pay for some college. It isn't like these miners are all the sole breadwinners in the family.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497317
The county seat of the area where my brother lives is 1300 people. It doesn't get more rural and those folks make out just fine with the gas boom there. They were hiring kids right out of high school for 18 bux an hour. That isn't rig work either. A sonic drive in in the nearest "big" town to them which is about 80 miles south closed down because they couldn't keep help at wages they could afford to pay. About 3 years ago my SIL e mailed me an ad for the Pizza hut there. Hiring delivery drivers for 14 bux an hour. My SIL was waitressing at the local Bar. There where nights where she pulled down better than 300 in tips alone.
As far as college kids if they get the right degree they aren't going to be working grub jobs so where's the issue?
Know anyone who works a coal mine? I haven't talked with the guy in about 7 years but one of my brother's Wyoming buddies is a mine worker. At that time he was making close to 30 an hour and his girlfriend made about 20 as a 9-11 dispatcher for the county. That will pay for some college. It isn't like these miners are all the sole breadwinners in the family.
You're talking about jobs in rural areas and parts of the country no one wants to live in. I can just imagine a bunch of college kids, or anyone that's used to living in a major metropolis would leave everything behind to go live in BFE because of a job opportunity. I'm not spending $50K+ on my daughter's education so she can go live in some podunk town delivering pizza's or burgers. Coal and oil industry jobs are highly specialized to the point that not any person wanting to do them has the capability to do so.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497291
Maybe that's part of the trouble......No real meaning or idea of what hard work is.....Maybe to much is taken for granted or handed to the younger generation.........
Why take a labor-intensive job when you can get an education in Computer Technology and make twice as much sitting behind a computer all day? My contractors who have the right qualifications (Security+, MCSE, Cisco CCNA,CCNP, or CCIE, Oracle DBA, CISSP, etc.) and experience (minimum 7 years in the industry) can earn anywhere from $35 - $150/hr working for one of my customers. If they're willing to do extensive travel, they make even more. So a high school kid can go an obtain the certifications, find a entry-level position making $12 - $20/hour, and in 8 - 10 years be making a fairly substantial income if they know where to look for it. Just go to Monster.com, Careerbuilder.com, or any other online job posting site and see how many IT-related jobs are out there.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497347
Why take a labor-intensive job when you can get an education in Computer Technology and make twice as much sitting behind a computer all day? My contractors who have the right qualifications (Security+, MCSE, Cisco CCNA,CCNP, or CCIE, Oracle DBA, CISSP, etc.) and experience (minimum 7 years in the industry) can earn anywhere from $35 - $150/hr working for one of my customers. If they're willing to do extensive travel, they make even more. So a high school kid can go an obtain the certifications, find a entry-level position making $12 - $20/hour, and in 8 - 10 years be making a fairly substantial income if they know where to look for it. Just go to Monster.com, Careerbuilder.com, or any other online job posting site and see how many IT-related jobs are out there.
There are a lot of people who don't want to sit behind a computer all day. Different strokes. I liked field service. You worked but you didn't sweat. Got to do something a little different every day and even some travel involved.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497345
You're talking about jobs in rural areas and parts of the country no one wants to live in. I can just imagine a bunch of college kids, or anyone that's used to living in a major metropolis would leave everything behind to go live in BFE because of a job opportunity. I'm not spending $50K+ on my daughter's education so she can go live in some podunk town delivering pizza's or burgers. Coal and oil industry jobs are highly specialized to the point that not any person wanting to do them has the capability to do so.
You ever been to Western Wyoming? You know, crappy areas like the Grand Titons and Yellowstone. If people want to live in the big city they have to accept the higher concentration of applicants. Right now someone can write their own ticket in North Dakota. I know a guy who is a IT specialist that turned down a 30.00 an hour job there a couple months ago. The job was basically data entry.

 

[darthtang aw]

You're talking about jobs in rural areas and parts of the country no one wants to live in.  I can just imagine a bunch of college kids, or anyone that's used to living in a major metropolis would leave everything behind to go live in BFE because of a job opportunity.  I'm not spending $50K+ on my daughter's education so she can go live in some podunk town delivering pizza's or burgers.  Coal and oil industry jobs are highly specialized to the point that not any person wanting to do them has the capability to do so. 
Are you implying that folks that live in a rural town are less than? Moving to a small town from a City is stepping down in life?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497367
Are you implying that folks that live in a rural town are less than? Moving to a small town from a City is stepping down in life?
I know people who live in small little West Texas towns that I'd hire in a minute. But living the rural life is not for everyone, especially those that grew up in a major city environment. I guess you can say it's "stepping down" when you have to drive 30 - 50 miles just to get to a large grocery store, shopping mall, popular restaurants, hardware stores (Lowes or Home Depot) and other forms of entertainment.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497359
You ever been to Western Wyoming? You know, crappy areas like the Grand Titons and Yellowstone. If people want to live in the big city they have to accept the higher concentration of applicants. Right now someone can write their own ticket in North Dakota. I know a guy who is a IT specialist that turned down a 30.00 an hour job there a couple months ago. The job was basically data entry.
And why did he turn down the job? Maybe because he didn't want to live in some remote community where the winter temperatures get down into the negative Fahrenheit values? Hey, I'd love to have the Grand Titons or Yellowstone in my backyard. What active person wouldn't. But there's other sacrifices my family wouldn't/couldn't put up with. If the opportunities in these areas are so great, why aren't people flocking by the millions to move out there?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497375
And why did he turn down the job? Maybe because he didn't want to live in some remote community where the winter temperatures get down into the negative Fahrenheit values? Hey, I'd love to have the Grand Titons or Yellowstone in my backyard. What active person wouldn't. But there's other sacrifices my family wouldn't/couldn't put up with. If the opportunities in these areas are so great, why aren't people flocking by the millions to move out there?
If he hadn't wanted to live in some remote community where winter temperatures drop in the negatives he wouldn't have approached them looking for work. He didn't take the job because he believes he can do a lot better and has plenty of savings to hold him over. There are plenty of people flocking to these places. At the time my brother built his apartments you couldn't even rent a hotel room within 40 miles of the area. He was getting 850 a month for a studio apt. and that was in 2005. Not sure what the rents are there now but the demand is still just as high. The county he lives in is like 95% federal land so there isn't room for a lot of development.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497374
I know people who live in small little West Texas towns that I'd hire in a minute. But living the rural life is not for everyone, especially those that grew up in a major city environment. I guess you can say it's "stepping down" when you have to drive 30 - 50 miles just to get to a large grocery store, shopping mall, popular restaurants, hardware stores (Lowes or Home Depot) and other forms of entertainment.
I grew up in the Metro LA area and I got out first chance I had. I only live back in a big city because someone made the wife a job offer we couldn't refuse but operation get the hell out is progressing nicely. I can't wait to get back away from it all. Within the next couple years she should be in the position to only need to do a day or two a week in the office so a 50 mile commute back into the metro area will be doable as long as we have internet.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497387
I grew up in the Metro LA area and I got out first chance I had. I only live back in a big city because someone made the wife a job offer we couldn't refuse but operation get the hell out is progressing nicely. I can't wait to get back away from it all. Within the next couple years she should be in the position to only need to do a day or two a week in the office so a 50 mile commute back into the metro area will be doable as long as we have internet.
My plan to get away is the Cayman Islands. This buddy of mine keeps calling me asking me to move down there and help him with his IT business. I could make 6-figures easy (tax free after 330 consecutive days living there). Last time I was down there, I actually found a 2-bedroom house mid-island that I could rent for around $1200/month. Problem is the taxes and duty to get my belongings down there. Wife isn't too keen on living on an island that's subject to hurricanes every once in a while....

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497410
My plan to get away is the Cayman Islands. This buddy of mine keeps calling me asking me to move down there and help him with his IT business. I could make 6-figures easy (tax free after 330 consecutive days living there). Last time I was down there, I actually found a 2-bedroom house mid-island that I could rent for around $1200/month. Problem is the taxes and duty to get my belongings down there. Wife isn't too keen on living on an island that's subject to hurricanes every once in a while....
Costa Rica

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497347
Why take a labor-intensive job when you can get an education in Computer Technology and make twice as much sitting behind a computer all day? My contractors who have the right qualifications (Security+, MCSE, Cisco CCNA,CCNP, or CCIE, Oracle DBA, CISSP, etc.) and experience (minimum 7 years in the industry) can earn anywhere from $35 - $150/hr working for one of my customers. If they're willing to do extensive travel, they make even more. So a high school kid can go an obtain the certifications, find a entry-level position making $12 - $20/hour, and in 8 - 10 years be making a fairly substantial income if they know where to look for it. Just go to Monster.com, Careerbuilder.com, or any other online job posting site and see how many IT-related jobs are out there.
Your correct if they know where to look........But my point was some people have the mentality that since they have that degree;certification that it's beneath them to start at the lower wage and work their way through the progression.....I have my degree in Secondary Education and have never taught a day in my life......Was an excellent way for promotion points when in the Army and when I got out I knew I had no desire to be trapped inside, and money factor was another.....Always enjoyed rolling my sleeves up and getting dirty, and never let obstacles stand in the way of achieving what I wanted......that's why I never buy into the whole "scheme" of some are more fortunate than others, or better opportunities.....We all have the same opportunities, IMO it comes down to how bad you really want something....

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497470
Your correct if they know where to look........But my point was some people have the mentality that since they have that degree;certification that it's beneath them to start at the lower wage and work their way through the progression.....I have my degree in Secondary Education and have never taught a day in my life......Was an excellent way for promotion points when in the Army and when I got out I knew I had no desire to be trapped inside, and money factor was another.....Always enjoyed rolling my sleeves up and getting dirty, and never let obstacles stand in the way of achieving what I wanted......that's why I never buy into the whole "scheme" of some are more fortunate than others, or better opportunities.....We all have the same opportunities, IMO it comes down to how bad you really want something....
Of course it does. If your passion is to have a job where you "roll up your sleeves and get dirty", then that's the type of position you should look for. Saying we all have the same opportunties is not necessarily correct. A kid that grew up in the projects, that had to go to a school that was low performing and didn't provide the quality education needed to get ahead, doesn't have the same opportunities as the kid that grew up in Beverly Hills, went to a private school that provided tutors and special assistance to that kid if he/she were struggling in any part of their education. The project kid has to struggle to find money, grants, or loans to get a secondary education - whether it be college or just some technical/vocational training. The Beverly Hills kid gets a paid ride to Stanford, MIT, or whatever college he/she chooses, as long as he/she has the grades or the right "pull" to get into the institution of their choice. Which of these two kids is more likely to have a successful career in whatever field they desire to be in, and which one will end up flipping burgers or finding some menial low-wage job just to survive?