Well done Mitt, you took it to him last night...

reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497474
Of course it does. If your passion is to have a job where you "roll up your sleeves and get dirty", then that's the type of position you should look for. Saying we all have the same opportunties is not necessarily correct. A kid that grew up in the projects, that had to go to a school that was low performing and didn't provide the quality education needed to get ahead, doesn't have the same opportunities as the kid that grew up in Beverly Hills, went to a private school that provided tutors and special assistance to that kid if he/she were struggling in any part of their education. The project kid has to struggle to find money, grants, or loans to get a secondary education - whether it be college or just some technical/vocational training. The Beverly Hills kid gets a paid ride to Stanford, MIT, or whatever college he/she chooses, as long as he/she has the grades or the right "pull" to get into the institution of their choice. Which of these two kids is more likely to have a successful career in whatever field they desire to be in, and which one will end up flipping burgers or finding some menial low-wage job just to survive?
How about the pasty white kid from the lower middle class who's parents earn enough not to qualify for tuition welfare but can't afford to cover tuition and there are no minority grants to cover? Welcome to my world LOL! It's better that I couldn't dig up the money, would have been a waste of time and money. I didn't want to be in school until I went back in my mid 20's.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/100#post_3497474
Of course it does. If your passion is to have a job where you "roll up your sleeves and get dirty", then that's the type of position you should look for. Saying we all have the same opportunties is not necessarily correct. A kid that grew up in the projects, that had to go to a school that was low performing and didn't provide the quality education needed to get ahead, doesn't have the same opportunities as the kid that grew up in Beverly Hills, went to a private school that provided tutors and special assistance to that kid if he/she were struggling in any part of their education. The project kid has to struggle to find money, grants, or loans to get a secondary education - whether it be college or just some technical/vocational training. The Beverly Hills kid gets a paid ride to Stanford, MIT, or whatever college he/she chooses, as long as he/she has the grades or the right "pull" to get into the institution of their choice. Which of these two kids is more likely to have a successful career in whatever field they desire to be in, and which one will end up flipping burgers or finding some menial low-wage job just to survive?
That's total BS......It all comes down to drive and motivation.....Again I assert that "we" feel we are entitled or owed something......I came from a small all white town, and being the only blacks in the town community, I know first hand the raw end of the deals there are.....I've seen first hand where you have to put forth the extra effort where ever it may be to achieve your goals.......My parents weren't well off, but always made sure my 2 sisters and I had what we needed.....I remember telling my old man I wanted a go kart 1 summer....They had the cash to buy me 1, but instead my dad went to the junk yard, and got me an old rusty frame and in the shop always engine parts galore......He told me he had something for me and gave me a box full of engine parts and the frame and said if I wanted a go kart I'd have to build it......By summers end I had what I wanted....Nothing wrong with "actually" earning it.
The analogy of 2 kids just doesn't sit.....It comes down to what are you willing to sacrifice to meet the desired results.....I got decent grades, but did enough to get by....I have friends how did nothing and fared better than I in school, so I thought......I've seen the "golden children" have all handed to them, and been side stepped due to skin color......I joined the military to see the opportunities, and yes, everyone has that opportunity, so saying you can't get an education or skill at no cost.......The military also gave me an added skill, but time to develop as an adult and realize what was important, and gave me the means to achieve that.....Made me realize the importance of an education and by that time I was mature enough to handle school. Also gave me the added reinforcement that anything is possible and nothing is out of reach.....All comes down to is personal motivation.......So yes we all have the opportunities to reach are goals.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/120#post_3497493
That's total BS......It all comes down to drive and motivation.....Again I assert that "we" feel we are entitled or owed something......I came from a small all white town, and being the only blacks in the town community, I know first hand the raw end of the deals there are.....I've seen first hand where you have to put forth the extra effort where ever it may be to achieve your goals.......My parents weren't well off, but always made sure my 2 sisters and I had what we needed.....I remember telling my old man I wanted a go kart 1 summer....They had the cash to buy me 1, but instead my dad went to the junk yard, and got me an old rusty frame and in the shop always engine parts galore......He told me he had something for me and gave me a box full of engine parts and the frame and said if I wanted a go kart I'd have to build it......By summers end I had what I wanted....Nothing wrong with "actually" earning it.
The analogy of 2 kids just doesn't sit.....It comes down to what are you willing to sacrifice to meet the desired results.....I got decent grades, but did enough to get by....I have friends how did nothing and fared better than I in school, so I thought......I've seen the "golden children" have all handed to them, and been side stepped due to skin color......I joined the military to see the opportunities, and yes, everyone has that opportunity, so saying you can't get an education or skill at no cost.......The military also gave me an added skill, but time to develop as an adult and realize what was important, and gave me the means to achieve that.....Made me realize the importance of an education and by that time I was mature enough to handle school. Also gave me the added reinforcement that anything is possible and nothing is out of reach.....All comes down to is personal motivation.......So yes we all have the opportunities to reach are goals.
No, it's reality. Yes, there are people who became very successful from low to middle income families. However, statiscally those in the upper-middle to high income families tend to be more successful, have more opportunities, and more likely to obtain a higher education than those in the lower incomes. There's a disparity in this country when it comes to educational opportunities. We have something like 14 school districts in the surrounding San Antonio area. The quality of education is vastly different between the schools in high income districts, and those in the lower income districts. Google the Texas Robin Hood Plan. You'll see how well that little diddy worked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_plan
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
pretty sure if you grow up with trash druggies chances are you will remain one.i do construction and see the wealthy dont ever even smoke cigarettes.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
No, it's reality.  Yes, there are people who became very successful from low to middle income families.  However, statiscally those in the upper-middle to high income families tend to be more successful, have more opportunities, and more likely to obtain a higher education than those in the lower incomes.  There's a disparity in this country when it comes to educational opportunities.  We have something like 14 school districts in the surrounding San Antonio area.  The quality of education is vastly different between the schools in high income districts, and those in the lower income districts.  Google the Texas Robin Hood Plan.  You'll see how well that little diddy worked.
Show me another country that does not contain the same disparity. It isn't a government problem/issue. It isn't a system problem. It is a thing called life. And life isn't fair.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/120#post_3497543
No, it's reality. Yes, there are people who became very successful from low to middle income families. However, statically those in the upper-middle to high income families tend to be more successful, have more opportunities, and more likely to obtain a higher education than those in the lower incomes. There's a disparity in this country when it comes to educational opportunities. We have something like 14 school districts in the surrounding San Antonio area. The quality of education is vastly different between the schools in high income districts, and those in the lower income districts. Google the Texas Robin Hood Plan. You'll see how well that little diddy worked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_plan
Statically...... We as human beings can overcome if you want something bad enough.....I think sometimes we look a little to much at numbers......Have you witnessed or seen or dealt with first hand.......I've seen poor performing schools....Actually right in my town I live in the state has taken over the school district because of performance.....The inner city is ridden and plagued with drugs, violence and what not.....I have quite a few friends and acquaintances that made it out.....Again determination and willingness to work
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/120#post_3497564
Statically...... We as human beings can overcome if you want something bad enough.....I think sometimes we look a little to much at numbers......Have you witnessed or seen or dealt with first hand.......I've seen poor performing schools....Actually right in my town I live in the state has taken over the school district because of performance.....The inner city is ridden and plagued with drugs, violence and what not.....I have quite a few friends and acquaintances that made it out.....Again determination and willingness to work
That's the thing. My two older brothers got in a lot of trouble. One died of drug an alcohol abuse. Another was headed there first until he got stabbed in a bar fight that ripped up his gut bad enough he couldn't drink. Both had been in jail more than once. Me and the sister have never seen the inside of a jail. Other than trying pot a few times never did drugs. Do like to drink but not like I once did. When I started High School my parents had just divorced and I had to move from the cool surfer town to a greasy barrio where you had to walk on egg shells to keep from getting jumped for WWW. I hated school, didn't want to be there so I just stumbled through. Thought about going to college for mechanical engineering but the finances couldn't be put together. Did a couple terms at community college but I really didn't want to be there. Did find a pretty decent job but after about 4 years I could see it was dead end so I went to trade school and got qualified to be an office machine technician. Not a glorious job but you could go about anywhere and get pretty decent pay and benefits. You don't have to go to college to make it into the middle class.
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
is it not stereotypical? what i dont get is everyone sees nice houses why would someone not want to work and own one someday?
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I've been busy getting the septic system ready for (hopefully) the last inspection by the county, so haven't been here much. First: Giving money to banks and telling them to use it as long as they want and when their executives draw record salaries and bonuses, calling it a bailout or TARP doesn't make it any less a handout. Second: The Fed is still loaning money to them at .15%-.5% interest and that is still a handout. Yes, Obama has given more corporate welfare than any other president. So, no he's not "for the little guy". Now on to the current topic: Of course children of the wealthy and upper middle class have more opportunity and benefits to start a career and life in general. And those born into poverty do have a much higher rate of alcoholism and drug abuse. Both are undeniable facts. However, anyone from any background can rise to whatever social status they want, if they decide to make that their mission in life.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
There was a doctor from Del Rio, Texas who was on a local radio station last year-I wish I could remember his name. His grandfather emigrated from Mexico and worked 3 and 4 jobs at a time and after 10 years, he brought his wife and kids up(legally). This guys father owned his own upholstery shop and also worked several jobs to put his 3 kids through college. Now the guy and his brother are both top doctors in the nation and his sister is a corporate lawyer. He was here to speak against Raza studies. He said too many of "his people" live lives of poverty because they think and act like America hates them and the deck is stacked against them and all they learn in barrio schools is how to hate and blame others for their problems. He said he and his family are an example of how the American dream is possible for anyone. Excuses and envy only lead to failure. And that is the crux of why so many "minorities" fail. Instead of being taught how to succeed, they are taught why they will fail and it's always someone else' fault-usually some evil whitey in a country club somewhere who has nothing in the world to do with them and their lives. That's what I have come to despise about Obama. That has been his message from day 1. It's always someone else' fault and he's here(not to lift them up to succeed) to tear "them" down and punish "them".
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
plus the fact that any minority can get gants for school breaks on taxws etc... if peiople are born in poverty and have all this help available its nobodys fault except their own why they have a life of poverty.i was born to a lower middle class family.we struggled at times.hell i had to wear off brand sneakers to school and got picked on for it. now myself and my brother have been self employed for over 20 years and we are both doing great.his house which is pretty sweet has 5 more years of payments and he is only 39 yrs old. i am building a house now with cash.i aint saying we were poor but we sure didnt have a silver spoon.and god knows we didnt get any breaks for being white
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/120#post_3497548
Show me another country that does not contain the same disparity. It isn't a government problem/issue. It isn't a system problem. It is a thing called life. And life isn't fair.
Waaaah! Life is just a crap shoot. You could have easily been born into the Rockefeller family. If everyone had all these opportunities to succeed, then we'd have no poverty. We'd have no separation of class. Everyone would be on an even keel. But our society doesn't allow or make room for those ideologies. You will always have poor people that no matter what they try to do in life, they won't succeed and move up in the world. Call it inbreeding, call it the environment they grow up in, pick one. We are better than the majority of other countries, but our system is still an imperfect one. You people chastise the government for supporting, or "giving out handouts" to the downtrodden individuals who live here, however if we didn't provide some form of assistance, you'd have a country filled with places not fit for humans to exist in. Just look to Mexico and their various border towns. See the type of environment those people live in because their government doesn't care about them, and throws them a miniscule bone every once in a while. Picture those towns outside of Denver, Chicago, Phoenix, San Francisco, or any other major metropolitan city. Envision Federal Govt. Patrols roaming the streets at all times of the day, and having little checkpoints every once in a while to inspect your car and belongings. Pray you don't get stuck in a firefight between opposing drug cartels. There are cities in this country that aren't far from that type of environment, but if we just ran this country with the mentality that everyone just fends for themselves, you'd have it in every backyard, in every State in this nation.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/120#post_3497648
Waaaah! Life is just a crap shoot. You could have easily been born into the Rockefeller family. If everyone had all these opportunities to succeed, then we'd have no poverty. We'd have no separation of class. Everyone would be on an even keel. But our society doesn't allow or make room for those ideologies. You will always have poor people that no matter what they try to do in life, they won't succeed and move up in the world. Call it inbreeding, call it the environment they grow up in, pick one. We are better than the majority of other countries, but our system is still an imperfect one. You people chastise the government for supporting, or "giving out handouts" to the downtrodden individuals who live here, however if we didn't provide some form of assistance, you'd have a country filled with places not fit for humans to exist in. Just look to Mexico and their various border towns. See the type of environment those people live in because their government doesn't care about them, and throws them a miniscule bone every once in a while. Picture those towns outside of Denver, Chicago, Phoenix, San Francisco, or any other major metropolitan city. Envision Federal Govt. Patrols roaming the streets at all times of the day, and having little checkpoints every once in a while to inspect your car and belongings. Pray you don't get stuck in a firefight between opposing drug cartels. There are cities in this country that aren't far from that type of environment, but if we just ran this country with the mentality that everyone just fends for themselves, you'd have it in every backyard, in every State in this nation.
BS, It's thinking like that that is screwing up this country. we've wasted billions if not trillions in the war on 'poverty' and it's hasn't lowered the poverty rate, it's just changed the standard of poverty. you have a certain class of people who are going to take all the free stuff they can get as long as they can get it and it has little to do with race or location. it only appears to be an 'inner city' problem because there is a higher concentration of people there. I met plenty of welfare hos in rural montana.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Waaaah!  Life is just a crap shoot.  You could have easily been born into the Rockefeller family.  If everyone had all these opportunities to succeed, then we'd have no poverty.  We'd have no separation of class.  Everyone would be on an even keel.  But our society doesn't allow or make room for those ideologies.  You will always have poor people that no matter what they try to do in life, they won't succeed and move up in the world.  Call it inbreeding, call it the environment they grow up in, pick one.  We are better than the majority of other countries, but our system is still an imperfect one.  You people chastise the government for supporting, or "giving out handouts" to the downtrodden individuals who live here, however if we didn't provide some form of assistance, you'd have a country filled with places not fit for humans to exist in.  Just look to Mexico and their various border towns.  See the type of environment those people live in because their government doesn't care about them, and throws them a miniscule bone every once in a while.  Picture those towns outside of Denver, Chicago, Phoenix, San Francisco, or any other major metropolitan city.  Envision Federal Govt. Patrols roaming the streets at all times of the day, and having little checkpoints every once in a while to inspect your car and belongings.  Pray you don't get stuck in a firefight between opposing drug cartels.  There are cities in this country that aren't far from that type of environment, but if we just ran this country with the mentality that everyone just fends for themselves, you'd have it in every backyard, in every State in this nation.
Like I said, show me another country that evens the playing level better than us and has less disparity.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by deejeff442 http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/120#post_3497635
plus the fact that any minority can get gants for school breaks on taxws etc... if peiople are born in poverty and have all this help available its nobodys fault except their own why they have a life of poverty.i was born to a lower middle class family.we struggled at times.hell i had to wear off brand sneakers to school and got picked on for it. now myself and my brother have been self employed for over 20 years and we are both doing great.his house which is pretty sweet has 5 more years of payments and he is only 39 yrs old. i am building a house now with cash.i aint saying we were poor but we sure didnt have a silver spoon.and god knows we didnt get any breaks for being white
Minority......Please!!!!!!!
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/120#post_3497700
BS, It's thinking like that that is screwing up this country. we've wasted billions if not trillions in the war on 'poverty' and it's hasn't lowered the poverty rate, it's just changed the standard of poverty. you have a certain class of people who are going to take all the free stuff they can get as long as they can get it and it has little to do with race or location. it only appears to be an 'inner city' problem because there is a higher concentration of people there. I met plenty of welfare hos in rural montana.
Typical right-wing mentality. Always stereotyping a particular group of individuals, then throwing everyone else that fits the same lower income into that category. So do you consider those Airmen that make $20K/year that do 4 tours in Afghan or Iraq, while they're spouses stay at home unable to find work in some small military town where any available jobs have been sucked up by the spouses before them part of these "war on poverty" individuals? How about the uneducated person who has a lower than average IQ? Do you blame him for "sucking off the government" simply because his lightbulb isn't the brightest of the bunch? You're obviously jealous of these "Welfare Ho's" simply because you didn't think of it first...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393144/well-done-mitt-you-took-it-to-him-last-night/120#post_3497783
Typical right-wing mentality. Always stereotyping a particular group of individuals, then throwing everyone else that fits the same lower income into that category. So do you consider those Airmen that make $20K/year that do 4 tours in Afghan or Iraq, while they're spouses stay at home unable to find work in some small military town where any available jobs have been sucked up by the spouses before them part of these "war on poverty" individuals? How about the uneducated person who has a lower than average IQ? Do you blame him for "sucking off the government" simply because his lightbulb isn't the brightest of the bunch? You're obviously jealous of these "Welfare Ho's" simply because you didn't think of it first...
Stereotyping who, people who are on the take from the government? Typical left wing mentality, baseless attack when the facts can't support your view.
Who makes 20K a year in the military? You omit Housing and sustenance allowances, separation and combat pay etc. Remember my kid is active duty. Low IQ people can still get good jobs. Look at Joe Biden LOL! Seriously unless you are getting into special needs folks there are still really good jobs for "dumb" people. Not to say they were dumb but a couple member of a friend's family worked for BFI hauling trash. You started out at 14 bux an hour with killer benefits riding around throwing trash in the truck. Their pension deal is once your age and years of service totaled 65 you could take full retirement. His brother started a few days shy of his 18th birthday and will retire on his 42nd birthday drawing about 73% of his ending salary. Not bad for a HS diploma. Construction is another area where all it takes is hard work although 0bama's failure to enforce our immigration laws makes it hard for an honest citizen to get those jobs now.
 
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