well i found out why my tank has had a HUGE ammonia spike that 2, 25% WC's couldn't help...

adaminelpaso

adaminelpaso

New Member
i had a dead anemone in my tank and i never knew it as i thought it just moved behind the rocks. anyway we're in the process of organizing rock, then doing a 25% WC, and then when the water clears I'll link to pics of my tank. this is a real relief because although i bonded the ammonia, seeing my fish unhappy has kinda made me depressed for the last few days as well. the second we pulled that dead invert out of the rock the fish seem a little happier.
nevertheless i'm at close to 8ppm, going to do the WC now and will let you know what happens.
in the tank are:
1 Watchman Goby
2 Blue/Orange Damsels
1 Silver Damsel
2 Maroon Clowns
1 Foxface Rabbit
1 Cardinal
1 Copperband
1 Blue Hippo
1 Black Marine Betta
the cuc
what i recently lost:
2 flame angels
2 sea urchens
1 choc chip serpent
1 LTA
--------------------------------------------------------------
adam
160 gal FOWLR w/ 150 lbs marshall island rock
30 gal sump
15 gal fuge
titanium chiller
10k metal halides and actinic flourescents
 
prh123

prh123

Member
No skimmer? Just remember 20% change means 20% reduction, tough call on a “big” change, if its distilled or RO water, same temperature, and salinity I would go for a larger change. Then test water, 50% means 50% reduction. What is the biological filter the live rock?
I had that happen with tanks with power heads, the anemones went towards the flow right into them. If you have a skimmer running the idea is remove waste before its pollutes the water, Ozone and a controller you can throw hamburger meat into your tank and it will clean it up. Your biological filter adjusts to the load in the tank but it sounds like you pushed it over the edge. You should never be able to detect Ammonia or Nitrite, its deadly. We used to use the wet and dry sump as a biological filter, they noticed the life rock does it on its own, but some kept media in the sump anyway as a backup plan for surges in load. The problem both created too much nitrate.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Your ammonia is 8??????? I am surprised everything isn't dead.....you need to get some amquel+ immediately to detoxify the effects of the ammonia....and do a LARGE w/c asap
 
prh123

prh123

Member
I was being polite, everything should be dead, sounds like a train wreck, sorry. Might be safer to make up change water and put fish and life rock in a new rubber maid garbage can until you get levels to 0. The biological filter failed to handle the increased load, and no mention on skimmer that might of bubbled a great deal pointing to the problem earlier. Don't know what time zone you are in, but the other comment is smart, need to add something like biozyme that increases your biological filter so you "just" have nitrates. Then you reduce them as you can, or run a reactor just for nitrates.
Biozyme was the red small container of bacteria to start your biological filter during initial cycle of tank. Hagen has a liquid does the same thing. Never used anything just targeting ammonia or nitrite (both deadly), just forced the cycle. (Ammonia, becomes Nitrite, and than Nitrate) the first two should never be detected.
The pet store price, they "know you need it", I did not plan for that during a move but now that I listened to your scenario I should have. I air rated the tank water with the fish and live rock, they could have stayed in there for days. Move was 3-4 hours truck to getting the tank up and running.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Don't feel too bad if things are surviving. One of my last findings was a dead opossum in my lagoon.
 
adaminelpaso

adaminelpaso

New Member
hey everything is surviving and the fish are ok. i did bond it and really what we did today was a total housecleaning for them. i have a huge skimmer, i just don't know the make and model but i'll look and report right back. i'm going to post some photos right now and i just think the biological filter wasn't established when i moved my livestock from my 55 to a 150 that i inherited. the 150 was established for 10 years but during the move (and we kept 80% of the water) it just hasn't cycled yet. anyway pics and skimmer info to come...
thanks for everyone's reply and i don't take anything personal i'm trying (like everyone else) to make my fish as happy as they can possibly be. like everyone else i've invested great resources and i'm not used to having anything die...so please give me all the criticism and advice you can, it's only beneficial to my tank and i. :)
 
adaminelpaso

adaminelpaso

New Member
here's pics:
http://s1177.photobucket.com/albums/x352/adaminelpaso1/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ16
my skimmer is a EURO-REEF CS
 
prh123

prh123

Member
Interesting, I read for years (a consistent message) the biological filter adjusts to the load on it that’s it, so the death caused it to cycle. “Nice” on fish are OK you did well. You can clean skimmer often, add that bacteria they use for cycling for 2-3 days to help it along. Years ago we waited thirty days for the cycle to finish, they made some great products to reduce the cycle to 2 days (something like that). You're smart just read the instructions.
 
prh123

prh123

Member
I used small container (red) called Biozyme (powder), and local store had it from Hagen (liquid). Without it its thirty days (really) I did this crap before they invented the booster to cycle tank fast. I really think you should, even pet store owners said they had losses moving tanks (fish and corals). I moved a 75 fish only, had live rock and fish in one new rubber maid, the tank water in another (most of it). I don’t see “any” downside, rapidly you should have no detectable ammonia or nitrite, just nitrates you chose a percentage of water to change based on it. 2-3 days you add it, probably a done deal.
I wanted the same thing I used back in the day, I used what they had. I believe the reality is thirty days without it (the natural cycle) something like that, Google "Nitrafication Cycle" or "New Tank Syndrome" and you will believe, its not BS.
The cycle goes in reverse after 8 hours of no power for example (Nitrate, become Nitrite, and then Ammonia) normally everything dies.
I bought the tank, salt mix, and damsels on the same day, and used the "cycle" product, we used to wait it out and test. I did wait for live rock, corals, and a more expensive fish, not a complete idiot. If you use RO or distilled you can change as much water as you want, just correct salinity and temperture. It won't solve the cycle, if this is the case, sounds it.
So you made me think, #1 death increases demand on nitraficaiton cycle #2 during power outage, or a move it reverts backward I read 8 hours water starts reverse Nitrafication Cycle #3 live rock from 50 to 180, I never agreed with the math but someone might tell you need more live rock, I have not found the suggestions not accurate, they want to sell live rock. #4 Over and over the consistent message is the biolgocal filter only is suited for current demand, have to be careful with changes. #5 The cycle products work, no joke, change too much, plan on using it, accidently death maybe keep a bottle around. #6 Powerheads in a anemone tank is a disaster waiting to happen, grinds them up sooner or later. Been there. No Worries.
 
travelerjp98

travelerjp98

Active Member
I looked at the pics and I'm surprised that everything is still alive.
It looks like a nice tank, though... do a water change for now, again and again...
Did you just start up the tank? If so, I think adding all the livestock you have in it at once might of caused the tank to crash.
Also, as I learned earlier this year- the hard way, I would raise those wires off the ground.
Good luck- I hope all gets better.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by adaminelpaso http:///forum/thread/387161/well-i-found-out-why-my-tank-has-had-a-huge-ammonia-spike-that-2-25-wc-s-couldn-t-help#post_3404385
@prh: people have told me that instant cycle stuff is snake oil. i'm afraid to put it in my tank. should i???
Cycle is just good bacteria, it won't harm a thing. With a tank that established I'm even surprised you had any ammonia spike. My anemone died and it did nothing in my 90g tank. How old are your test kits? At 8 everything would be dead, if you are anything like me the ammonia test doesn't get used until something happens, your kit is off I think.
 
adaminelpaso

adaminelpaso

New Member
i hope my kits are off, but i don't think so. i think i had dying corals and some fish that caused the spike. i added 'smartstart' that i got from my local guru and waiting for the 24hr cycle to complete. fish seem fine though. i'll take a new pic and post it at noon when the lights come on. thanks for asking.
 
prh123

prh123

Member
Google “nitrification cycle” and “new tank syndrome” there are several good cycle products, its struck me, that’s the point you need it to “cycle”. 2-3 days, decades ago we tested, and tested, and then tested for 30 days, ahh.
 
adaminelpaso

adaminelpaso

New Member
hey friends so i hit the tank with the start-smart cycle bacteria and dosed with amquel this morning. i lost my cardinal, which i've had for the longest time (since i had my first 55gal.) both my g/f and i were really bummed and still are. amazing how losing a fish is so upsetting when i know so many people who just shrug it off and say that comes with the territory in this hobby... anyway...
my 160 isn't messy but i did mention i have a plenum and a 10 year old substrate when i inherited my tank. and being that with my 30 gal sump and fuge i still have ammonia i've asked everyone i know in town what to do...multiple WC's and it's not dropping off. my tank is not messy although i'd like to clean the gravel but some say leave it be, others say vaccum it. opinions?
well as i said the tank isn't messy but i did have a lost anemone i couldn't find after rearranging all the rock and today i found it. it had decayed beyond recognition. is that the source of my ammonia? it was probably in the tanks for 3 weeks dead. i'm so desperate to rid my tank of ammonia that i'm just at a lost for what to do although i can be plenty patient...it's just with such a big setup, water volume, great aeration and a very efficient skimmer i don't want to see any fish suffer. i've hit the tank with insta-cycle, i've changed the water 4 times and the only things i haven't done are vaccum the gravel and there was a dead anemone in the tank...so do you think now that i removed it i should see the ammonia drop? thanks for any additional advice/opinions/criticism and comments.
adam :)
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
you have gravel?
amquel + is the best thing to detoxify ammonia....it will mess with your test results from what I understand though......
How big are the w/c's you are doing?
 
adaminelpaso

adaminelpaso

New Member
for the sake of my learning curve i'm going to start to run my 55 gal with new sand and rock and let the tank cycle WITHOUT fish. just to see what happens and how long it takes. then eventually i'd like to keep my 160 as a FOWLR and make the 55 a pure reef tank.
 
adaminelpaso

adaminelpaso

New Member
hey meow i had been doing 30% changes and no change in the ammonia. just did an instant-read test strip and the ammonia is down, but still at 3ppm. hopefully it will keep dropping. amquel+ is what i've been using to bond it...still of course i want it ALL GONE!
yes i have about a 3" sand base but as i said, the base is at least 10 yrs old.
 
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