What are your thoughts on the Israel fighting going on?

[mrdc]

Well besides gas prices about to go through the roof, I was wondering what your thoughts are regarding the Israel fiasco. I feel sorry for Israel because they are surround by everyone (on all borders) who hate them. I worry about all the bombs being shot in there because they have nukes so I hope one of the nuke facilities isn't hit. I would love to say let's go in there and clean house but that would not work and I really don't endorse that. I do feel that diplomacy will never work in the middle east and never will. That region has been in turmoil since the beginning of time and the only reason we are interested in that area is because of oil and the fact that certain countries are going for nukes and I wish nukes would have never been invented. Anyway, what are your thoughts? I know there has to be many different opinions.

 

[pontius]

I think Israel is the one nation on earth that knows how to deal with maniacs. like other nations, they'll try restraint and diplomacy. but unlike most other nations, they'll only be pushed so far before opening up a can. and I applaud them for it.
all the leftists want to try and show how Israel is the aggressor and the poor little Palestinians have been crushed under their feet. but none of these people want to point out how much restraint Israel has shown over the years. no one likes to point out how everytime the Israelis concede something, the Palestinians' attacks intensify and they demand more.
all these people want to say that Israel has now started a war over 2 kidnapped soldiers. but none of them want to accept that this is actually more like the hundredth time that Israeli soldiers have been kidnapped and killed for no other reason than that these people hate Jews. they've had enough.
I wish Israel all the luck in the world and hope they send Beirut back into the caveman days.

 

[chipmaker]

I do not think there is any potential for a nuke faciltiy to be hit, but then again who would have thought the terrorists had a explosive laden un manned drone that came close to sinking a warship......I hope Israel pulls out the stops and totally anialates Hamas and Hezballa......Lebanonese people are held captive by terrorists is what is happening, as the majorioty of them want peace and for the jack booted terrorists to get gone. I have no doubt Israel could have made that territory into a smoking hole in the ground by now if they wanted to, but its not their intention. They abided by the peace accords that was in place and the UN verified they did, when they pulled out of Gaza and the other areas.............yet Hezballa was not dearmed, as was supposed to happen.....but no one can say Israel did not comply with the pact that was made, only to get bit in the back side years down the road. From what the one Israelie said on TV today, it matters not if the soliders are returned, its not going to stop what is going to be done now. They intend to fully dissassemble Hamas and Hezballa before they even consider it being over. Let Egypt jump in, its not gonna make a difference. Israel can whip em....same for Syria..not a problem.......and I think that if they did get inundated with bad guys all around the USA would start to carpet bomb a lot of areas like Syria and Iran wi8th such impunity that they probbaly would be just a big sand box void of life and all without nukes entering into the picture.
I have a feeling Syria does not really want to get intoti though as there is a very good chance all those WMD's may then be discovered, that were supposed to be in Iraq, that Sadam DID have but dissapeared.......And if they are not there in Syria they are in the regins of Palestine somewhere or Iran....Call me a naieve idividual, but Iraq had WMD's and time is going to prove that. And us Americans insisting those jihadists deserve to be treated by the geneva convention..........all they deserve is a bullet between the eyes.

 

[mrdc]

Yep, I was also surprised with the unmanned drone thing. I was like, that is our way of doing things. That just shows that those back-arse terroists are being funded by countries like Iran. The only reasons everyone else in the world is against it is because they are worried about their oil supplies. People WAKE UP, let's get off fossil fuels! It can and should have already been done, but the big oil companies are preventing it from being done. Yeah, the big companies say they are putting in money towards alternative technology but what they put in,. the CEO makes in a week. Heck let's just learn how to get the dirty oil in Canada at an economical price. There is enough oil up there to last a LONG time!

 

[phixer]

Until the enemies of Isreal are completely conquered the fighting in the middle east will never end. Hopefully this time Isreal will make them into a glass parking lot. I was in Tel Aviv in 1991, the people there are great. They only want what is theirs to begin with.

 

[deelucky]

kudos for israel,showing these militia that certain things will not be tolerated.

 

[beth]

We, and even more, Europeans, can learn and thing or 2 from Israelis about what needs to be done about the escalating terrorism in the world.

 

[ukcats]

Before everyone gets on the Israeli band wagon we should all remember that the UN after WW2 placed Israel there and basically took the land from the Palestinians. How would each of you feel about your neighbor if the government took the land from underneath you that your fathers and their fathers b4 them owned and gave it to your neighbor with no compensation? I don't condone blowing things up at all but it may be some food for thought???

 

[chipmaker]

Then hezballa and hamas needs to be taking up these issues with the UN since they started this mess........The Jews have always been known as the wondering peoples.........and never had a homeland per se..Heck they even have a plant called a wandering jew. Land and borders are always changing. But when yu get right down to it, the land that is in Lebanon, Palestine and Israel right now is where the Jews used to be way back in early times, but they were constantly moving due to being prosecuted and pursued by the Egyptians.....The land back in them days was just desolate land no one really wanted or desired due to its sparseness etc......So I think the Jews really have mnore claim to this land than we are lead to belive. It still doe snot give Iran and Syria to back thugs to eliminate them though. I just hope this outbreak puts Syria and Iran into the frying pan as well and then finally something gets done with the sponsors of terrorism. Hamas and Hezballa is small potatoes and not a threat once the sponsors are taken away.......Jordan is not gong toget involved, and neither is Egypt.....or any other arab country.....Heck Iran is not even considered an Arab country........their just a radical muslim country, nothing more........
As for taking land the US Government takes land every day from folks whose families have worked it for generations, for lack of taxes or eminient domain........but yu do not see folks revolting like those Arabs do...........They just love to fight non arabs non muslims, and probably most could not tell you the history of that area if they were asked anyhow..........they only know what their so called clerics tell me..........can you say Sheeple?

 

[chipmaker]

Then hezballa and hamas needs to be taking up these issues with the UN since they started this mess........The Jews have always been known as the wondering peoples.........and never had a homeland per se..Heck they even have a plant called a wandering jew. Land and borders are always changing. But when yu get right down to it, the land that is in Lebanon, Palestine and Israel right now is where the Jews used to be way back in early times, but they were constantly moving due to being prosecuted and pursued by the Egyptians.....The land back in them days was just desolate land no one really wanted or desired due to its sparseness etc......So I think the Jews really have mnore claim to this land than we are lead to belive. It still doe snot give Iran and Syria to back thugs to eliminate them though. I just hope this outbreak puts Syria and Iran into the frying pan as well and then finally something gets done with the sponsors of terrorism. Hamas and Hezballa is small potatoes and not a threat once the sponsors are taken away.......Jordan is not gong toget involved, and neither is Egypt.....or any other arab country.....Heck Iran is not even considered an Arab country........their just a radical muslim country, nothing more........
As for taking land the US Government takes land every day from folks whose families have worked it for generations, for lack of taxes or eminient domain........but yu do not see folks revolting like those Arabs do...........They just love to fight non arabs non muslims, and probably most could not tell you the history of that area if they were asked anyhow..........they only know what their so called clerics tell me..........can you say Sheeple?
OH and its been reported now that it was not an unmanned drone as they at first thought. It was a Chinese designed, Iranian made Silkworm missile.......not the highest of tech nology but certianly does what its designed to do very well....and a lot more out of the reality of it being piece mealed together in a terrorists backyard shop than a unmanned drone could have been. Iran and Syria needs to be taken out and all this will end......

 

[beth]

If we discuss the history of this land and who it belonged to, then the Jews had a Jewish state there even in Roman times. The Arabs lost the land after WWII, the land belonging to the former Ottoman Empire [Turkey]; who mistakenly supported Nazi Germany in WWII. Palestine fell under British "ownership" when the Allies won WWII. Because Western Civilization had developed a sense of "justice" the land was turned over again to the original owners--the Jews so that they could re-establish their country. Jews having been scattered to the 4-corners of the world and horribly abused by Hitler's Germany, then started to re-settle in their old ancestral lands. Obviously, there was great benefit to Western cultures to have such an alley in this area of the world that has been very problematic for centuries.
Recently, the Israelis have in tern released to the Palestinians lands that they have occupied, and have marginally cooperated with the USA's attempts to address the needs of the Palestinian people. However, since it is not in the best interests of terrorist organization for Arabs, Jews and Westerners to resolve old issues, these terror organization do anything and everything that they can to ruin attempts at peace and reconciliation. And that is the problem that we now see in Lebanon.

 

[zman1]

What are your thoughts on the Israel fighting going on?
Israel has a right, no, obligation to protect itself and it's citizens from those that want to destroy them.

 

[cowfishrule]

i applaud isreal for taking no crap.
let them turn lebanon into an amusement park, for all i care.
btw, the us should also just keep out of this mess.
the less support we show for isreal, the less we will get sucked into this mess.
maybe the arabs will forget about us for a while as this mess is going on.

 

[mrdc]

Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
i applaud isreal for taking no crap.
let them turn lebanon into an amusement park, for all i care.
btw, the us should also just keep out of this mess.
the less support we show for isreal, the less we will get sucked into this mess.
maybe the arabs will forget about us for a while as this mess is going on.

Wishful thinking

If this fight gets really nasty and Israel needs our help, we will be there.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Beth
If we discuss the history of this land and who it belonged to, then the Jews had a Jewish state there even in Roman times. The Arabs lost the land after WWII, the land belonging to the former Ottoman Empire [Turkey]; who mistakenly supported Nazi Germany in WWII. Palestine fell under British "ownership" when the Allies won WWII. Because Western Civilization had developed a sense of "justice" the land was turned over again to the original owners--the Jews so that they could re-establish their country. Jews having been scattered to the 4-corners of the world and horribly abused by Hitler's Germany, then started to re-settle in their old ancestral lands. Obviously, there was great benefit to Western cultures to have such an alley in this area of the world that has been very problematic for centuries.
Recently, the Israelis have in tern released to the Palestinians lands that they have occupied, and have marginally cooperated with the USA's attempts to address the needs of the Palestinian people. However, since it is not in the best interests of terrorist organization for Arabs, Jews and Westerners to resolve old issues, these terror organization do anything and everything that they can to ruin attempts at peace and reconciliation. And that is the problem that we now see in Lebanon.
this is absolutely correct. there have been Jews in that land since the beginning of recorded history. the land was not "taken from" the Palestinians because it is no more their birthright than the Jews' birthright. Jews were the majority in many major cities, including Jerusalem, before WWII.
I don't know exactly where the Palestinians stood in WWII, but many of these middle eastern countries took Hitler's side for the sole reason that they wanted to see the Jews exterminated (completely ignorant to the fact that he planned to turn on them when he was done with the Jews). they were, and still are, on the wrong side of history.
much of the disputed land that Israel has taken has been after having to defend themselves time and time again from outside attacks. but showing great retraint and willing to live in peace, they have agreed to give much of the land back over the years, but the Palestinians and Arabs won't have any of it. they agreed to give land and control back in (I believe) 1994 in the Oslo Accords but the Palestinians violated the terms before the ink was even dry on the paper.
I could almost feel sorry for the regular Palestinian people if they didn't do such boneheaded things as electing HAMAS to be their government. this was a giant spit in the face of the Israelis and they should have known better.
I wish for peace in that region, but the Palestinians and Arabs are never going to have peace until they accept the Jews as neighbors. and the Jews have every right in the world to defend themselves.

 

[37g joe]

Originally Posted by UKCATS
Before everyone gets on the Israeli band wagon we should all remember that the UN after WW2 placed Israel there and basically took the land from the Palestinians. How would each of you feel about your neighbor if the government took the land from underneath you that your fathers and their fathers b4 them owned and gave it to your neighbor with no compensation? I don't condone blowing things up at all but it may be some food for thought???
You need to do more research. The Group of people called Palestinians is a large melting pot of many origins.
Many Palestinians are descendants of Egyptian, Sudanese, Syrian and Lebanese migrants, who settled in the current boundaries of Israel during 1830-1945. Migration by Arab citizens of the Ottoman Empire did not require any permit until WWI. Migrant workers were imported by the Ottoman and (since 1919) by the British authorities for infrastructure projects: The port of Haifa, the Haifa-Qantara, Haifa-Edrei, Haifa-Nablus and Jerusalem-Jaffa railroads, military installations, roads, quarries, reclamation of wetlands, etc. Illegal Arab laborers were also attracted by the relative boom, stimulated by Jewish immigration, which expanded labor-intensive enterprises (construction, agriculture, etc.).
The (1831-1840) conquest, by Egypt's Mohammed Ali, was solidified by thousands of Egyptians settling empty spaces between Gaza and Tul-Karem up to the Hula Valley. They followed in the footsteps of Egyptian draft dodgers, who fled Egypt before 1831. The British traveler, H.B. Tristram, identified Egyptian migrants in the Beit-Shean Valley, Acre, Hadera, Netanya and Jaffa. The British Palestine Exploration Fund indicated that Egyptian neighborhoods proliferated in and around Jaffa: Saknet el-Mussariya, Abu Kebir, Abu Derwish, Sumeil, Sheikh Muwanis, Salame', Fejja, etc. Many of those who fled in 1948 attempted to reunite with their families of origin.
"30,000-36,000 Syrian migrants (Huranis) entered Palestine during the last few months alone" (La Syrie daily, August 12, 1934). Syrian rulers have always considered the area as a southern province of Greater Syria. Az-ed-Din el-Qassam, the role-model of Hamas terrorism, who terrorized Jews in British Mandate Palestine, was a Syrian, as were Said el-A'az, a leader of the 1936-38 anti-Jewish pogroms and Kaukji, the commander-in-chief of the Arab mercenaries terrorizing Jews in the thirties and forties.
Tristram, and other travelers, identified over 15 Arab nationalities who settled in Jaffa. Libyan migrants and refugees settled in Gedera, south of Tel Aviv. Algerian refugees (Mugrabis), escaping the French conquest of 1830, settled in Safed, Tiberias and other parts of the Galilee. Their leader, Abd el-Kader el-Hasseini, headquartered in Syria! Circassian refugees, fleeing Russian oppression (1878), Moslems from Bosnia, Turkomans, Yemenite Arabs (1908) and Bedouin tribes from Jordan (escaping wars and famine) diversified Arab demography there.
http://www.acpr.org.il/cloakrm/clk98.html

 

[ukcats]

GREAT articles...
AND the UN moved all of those people off their land to create the State of Israel (which was my point)..after WW2. Now who was there first is certainly debateable. However, what is not debateable is that the "Holy Land" is important to Jews, Muslims, and Christians alike and the issues we have today in that region wouldn't be nearly as bad if that hadn't happened. Basically a lot of hard feeling and hatred down there.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by UKCATS
GREAT articles...
AND the UN moved all of those people off their land to create the State of Israel (which was my point)..after WW2. Now who was there first is certainly debateable. However, what is not debateable is that the "Holy Land" is important to Jews, Muslims, and Christians alike and the issues we have today in that region wouldn't be nearly as bad if that hadn't happened. Basically a lot of hard feeling and hatred down there.
can you post the article that shows where people were moved off their land after WWII??
because the way it happened is that there were many many Jews in that region before WWII ever took place and after WWII, lines were drawn to give them a permanent homeland. the only problem is that their neighbors have refused to accept this and have attacked them over and over again through the years. they have taken more land due to the need for a buffer zone from their cleary maniacal neighbors. however, they have offered to give pretty much all of this land back over the years in the name of peace, but still their neighbors won't accept. they just want all the Jews gone, and they're not going to get it.

 

[beth]

No one was moved off the land, they [and their decedents] are still there, obviously, since there is so much hostility still going on there. The truth is, the land was occupied by Arab Muslims, Christians and Jews. Palestine was a name of the area stemming from ancient times, not a country or state [[per-say]. Palestine, basically was just the name for the land. Then the state of Israel was created there. The Israelis generously have given the Palestinian people chunks of land over time, and recently, with the backing of the USA, Palestine and its people have some sort of a state or country now. However, since they voted in to lead their government a terrorist organization, it is terribly hard to continue to be sympathetic or support them as a developing country.

 

[ukcats]

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=8388
"The Palestinian people will never give up getting their lands back and seeking for their right of return," said one of the leaflets.
On May 15, 1948, one day after the birth of Israel, the Arab-Israeli war broke out forcing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to flee their homes.
And ever since, the Palestinians struggled for an independent state. About 4 million Palestinian refugees long for returning to their homes; now occupied by Israel.

I really never intended to get into an argument about this. I met a Palestinian man a couple of years ago. He was in his mid 60's and had some interesting views on life and had equally as interesting experiances within his former country. There are things in this world that go on and the press may not "spin" them in a light that actually indicates what happened. In closing I believe that it takes two to tango and there are at least 2 sides to each argument. This situation will never be resolved and I fear that it is going to get much worse before it gets better.