what does everybody use for flea and tick control?

[darthtang 2]

I used the word pyrethrin (sp?) As a broad term generalization for poison/carcinigen.....bad chose of words maybe but the meaning is the same. Also the question was regarding dogs...so my answer was not geared towards hamsters or rabbits....chickens or any other small caged animal. Strictly dogs.
Here we go. Fipronil, fiproniln, imadacloprid and permethrin are all class 3 carcinogens. These are also the active ingredients in the products. My 'ention of 54 percent is for the inactive ingredients. Here is where a love of politics laws and regulations comes in. In 1949 a law was passed that all inactive ingredients do not need to be disclosed if they have nothing To do with the claimed function or results from the product. In an effort to allow companies to maintain "trade secrets" and not disclose all their manufactured ingredients to maintain competition. Tghese ingredients do not have to undergo the battery of tests the main ingredient needs to. They only have to pass an acute toxity test. Which in most case is simple.
One of the more common "inactive ingredients" in these products is naphthalene. This is a major carcinigen. Even through inhalation.. it also causes anemia, liver damage, cataracts and skin allergies. This is what I am talking about. This in conjunction with the activeingredient is a strong dose of cancer andcell damage over time.
Imadocloprid is a form of nicotine.......hmmmmmmmm.....let's think about that. It also can cause reproductive problems. Permethrin in some studies is linked to pre parkinsons type symptoms as well.
Nitenpyram is not a preventative..it is a one time all o er kill...similar to a deet dip.....not ideal for older dogs.
I do not agree withfleabuster powder or shampoo either. The main ingredientin this is an acid and as a groomer I disagree with using anything with a lower acidity than the dogs skin. This can cause many skin issues for our pets.....boric acid also traps moisture...thus drying out the skin. This whole product goes against my grooming approach as itt does everything a groomer in this day and age should be avoiding.
Now on to cedar oil. It is mixed with a silane or saline solution...meaning it isn't absorbable anymore for lack of batter words. It is not atopical..so it is not absorbed into the bloodstream or internally. The reason cedar is bad is the liver and kidneys levels get to high but since it is not ingested in large amounts or in the bloodstream this risk is non existant...especially when mixed with saline. I am not going into the different types of cedar...as most won't care since cedar oil is not made from the truly harmful ones...atleast the products I have researched aree not.
Darth (phd) tang

 

[mylady]

Well Darth, I have been a groomer for 16 years. The Flea Busters powder does NOT go on the dogs and as a groomer you should know the difference between pyrethrins, permethrin and know not to use things interchangeably as a one term fits all. The thing is, if you suggest cedar oil without ever asking what other pets someone may have you could be risking their other pets health. And no, Capstar doesn't prevent, it kills everything and works for 24 hours and can be used as often as weekly to eventually get rid of an infestation. In all my years and with all the thousands of groomers I network with online worldwide I have never heard of any dog ever having a bad reaction to Capstar. And believe me, we discus these things at length. Just because it is a one time kill, I cannot ever compare it to dip, which is such a dangerous product I am amazed anyone still uses it or manufactures it. I still stand behind my recommendations. After years of grooming, being raised with show dogs, and working for years at a vet I will still recommend these products and use them myself.

 

[darthtang 2]

Quote: Originally Posted by MyLady http:///forum/thread/383731/what-does-everybody-use-for-flea-and-tick-control/20#post_3361884


Well Darth, I have been a groomer for 16 years. The Flea Busters powder does NOT go on the dogs and as a groomer you should know the difference between pyrethrins, permethrin and know not to use things interchangeably as a one term fits all. The thing is, if you suggest cedar oil without ever asking what other pets someone may have you could be risking their other pets health. And no, Capstar doesn't prevent, it kills everything and works for 24 hours and can be used as often as weekly to eventually get rid of an infestation. In all my years and with all the thousands of groomers I network with online worldwide I have never heard of any dog ever having a bad reaction to Capstar. And believe me, we discus these things at length. Just because it is a one time kill, I cannot ever compare it to dip, which is such a dangerous product I am amazed anyone still uses it or manufactures it. I still stand behind my recommendations. After years of grooming, being raised with show dogs, and working for years at a vet I will still recommend these products and use them myself.

Didn't say anything against capstar...it isn't a preventative..the question was preventing fleas....We use capstar in my shop...

How is a spritz of cedar oil a dog going to harm a hamster? unless the hamster sleeps with the dog. I already explained how the pet safe cedar oil is manufactured.

fleabuster also comes in shampoo form. The powder is not recomended for direct application.from whjat I read.

 

[mylady]

I had a client who came into the shop every time to buy dog food with their pet rat that rode on the back of their dog. While this might not be a common case, the fact remains things like this are possible and it's irresponsible to give advice like that without giving warning about possible consequences.

 

[darthtang 2]

Then you need to yell at your husband again for recommending something to someone without warning them that it is fatal to any rodents that may ride on it back....rabbits as well for a few hours after application that is. Frontline.....is fatal to all rodents and rabbits.

 

[monsinour]

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthtang 2 http:///forum/thread/383731/what-does-everybody-use-for-flea-and-tick-control/20#post_3361896
Then you need to yell at your husband again for recommending something to someone without warning them that it is fatal to any rodents that may ride on it back....rabbits as well for a few hours after application that is. Frontline.....is fatal to all rodents and rabbits.
so you were flat out told whats up and you come back at me? How freaking childish! Everything under the sun causes cancer or is harmful in some way or another to a human. Time is the most hurtful thing towards humans as every day is one day closer to your death. You want to stop time?
Someone tell me how in the world a banned person can create a second account and start posting on the boards and all the mods and admins are looking the other way?

 

[darthtang 2]

Mod that banned said I was free to use another account right in this forum as long as I follwed the rules. I have done that. I did not get flat out told what is up. Backed my statement with well pla@ed response and science. We differ in opinions. I was just pointing out that discreditting my response because I did not account for other animals is not a discredit when the board dog experts did the same originally.

 

[monsinour]

Never said I was a dog expert. I said my wife was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/383731/what-does-everybody-use-for-flea-and-tick-control#post_3358184
From the dog experts, well my wife really, frontline is the best and works all the time. Dont forget to treat in the winter too.
However, I do know enough to know that you are spouting out your arse and that I couldnt take one thing you said as truth. If you cant admit you were wrong, thats fine with me. Its a personal pride issue with you and I understand.
However
You do have diarrhea of the mouth and you forgot to wipe.

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthtang 2 http:///forum/thread/383731/what-does-everybody-use-for-flea-and-tick-control/20#post_3361902
Mod that banned said I was free to use another account right in this forum as long as I follwed the rules. I have done that. I did not get flat out told what is up. Backed my statement with well pla@ed response and science. We differ in opinions. I was just pointing out that discreditting my response because I did not account for other animals is not a discredit when the board dog experts did the same originally.
You are correct (OH GOD I HATE THIS) it was said that you could come back using another of your accounts ...and I'm not gonna go into the rest cause you know it and I don't think everyone else has to.
Monsinour...if you have a question about policies ask the management......
everyone has a difference of opinions....IMO there is no need to tear a person up and down...just disagree maturely and move on

 

[monsinour]

Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/383731/what-does-everybody-use-for-flea-and-tick-control/20#post_3361920
Monsinour...if you have a question about policies ask the management......
Obviously your not the one to ask so who is? an Admin?

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/383731/what-does-everybody-use-for-flea-and-tick-control/20#post_3361933
Obviously your not the one to ask so who is? an Admin?
YUP......

 

[darthtang 2]

I believe you said coming from the dog experts. May have been a typo. The point is irrelevant. It matters not to me if you believe what I have stated. Just passing along information like others on this board.you can look it all up if so inclined it matters not to me. The information has passed on to others. I find it amusing that you wish to see me banned for disagreeing civilly. What may have once been viewed safe a few years ago may not be is my point. Everyone should always research till they r sure. Some are cautious..some just want what works...remember for 25 ddt was viewed as safe..now where is this miracle bug killing product? Doesn't matter how long anyone has been doing anything...new information is always uncovered and discovered.
So disagree with you warrants banning and vile comments?

 

[gemmy]

Now, cedar oil may be a more natural approach for those who choose to go that route. However, in many pets cedar oil can cause severe reactions as it affects the pets liver enzymes. I personally have seen several dogs have allergic reactions to cedar, which caused their fur to fall out and one dog even started to develop respiratory problems. The moral of the story what works for one does not work for all.
Everything comes with its own risks and benefits. Each person must educate themselves and make the best decision for them and their household.

 

[mylady]

I have never heard of any issues with Frontline causing problems with rodents or rabbits. Fipronil affects invertebrates and should not cause any harm to rodents and rabbits. And as I said, Frontline works very well in my area, but flea strains are different in different parts of the country and what works well here may not work well someplace else. The dangers from flea and ticks and the diseases and problems they can cause far outway the risks of these products in my professional opinion. Cedar oil, though all natural, doesn't mean 100% safe. Foxglove is also 100% natural. And you'd have to put more than a drop of cedar oil on a large dog and have to remember to reapply it regularly for it to be affective. Tea tree oil is also a natural insect repellent and all natural, but again you'd have to be putting it on all the time to keep it affective. Not many owners will want to do that or remember to do it. I'd rather have a client use a trusted vet approved product and help prevent their pets from getting lyme disease, tape worms, anemia etc that will work for up to 3 months. I have seen huge issues with the seargents and hartz stuff and other crap sold in grocery stores, even bio spot has almost killed dogs before, but I have never heard or seen that happen with frontline or advantage.

 

[gemmy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLady http:///forum/thread/383731/what-does-everybody-use-for-flea-and-tick-control/20#post_3361976
I have never heard of any issues with Frontline causing problems with rodents or rabbits. Fipronil affects invertebrates and should not cause any harm to rodents and rabbits. And as I said, Frontline works very well in my area, but flea strains are different in different parts of the country and what works well here may not work well someplace else. The dangers from flea and ticks and the diseases and problems they can cause far outway the risks of these products in my professional opinion. Cedar oil, though all natural, doesn't mean 100% safe. Foxglove is also 100% natural. And you'd have to put more than a drop of cedar oil on a large dog and have to remember to reapply it regularly for it to be affective. Tea tree oil is also a natural insect repellent and all natural, but again you'd have to be putting it on all the time to keep it affective. Not many owners will want to do that or remember to do it. I'd rather have a client use a trusted vet approved product and help prevent their pets from getting lyme disease, tape worms, anemia etc that will work for up to 3 months. I have seen huge issues with the seargents and hartz stuff and other crap sold in grocery stores, even bio spot has almost killed dogs before, but I have never heard or seen that happen with frontline or advantage.
I also have never heard of issues with frontline causing problems for rodents, maybe it is fatal if they are exposed to the full dose. I have even heard of vets recommending a frontline spray to get rid of mites in a rats cage (honestly I would not use this approach). I have seen dogs have reactions to pretty much every flea preventative including frontline and advantage. It's just like taking a new medicine, just beware of possible reactions.

 

[darthtang 2]

The allergy aspect is always a possibility. I have a customer who's dogs have an allergy to any food containing duck chicken lamb or beef/bison. Recommended a dog food consisting of pork from a company that hasn't had a recall in the last 60 years...after all it is a pork based food and people worry about uncooked porked for a v alid reason. The salmon gave her dog bad gas....allergy are one aspect you can never accouunt for. I am curious what type of cedar oil was used in the liver problem cases. It is like diatametious earth...only human grade should be used as a bug repellent and yard control....grab the usuall DE and it is toxic. Cedar oil is the same...some are manufactured and processed differently.
Like you said..gather all the info then do what will work best for you and your pet.

 

[darthtang 2]

The simplest solution...just move. Here in abq we don't have flea problems....seen one case in the last 10 years and they were from out of town.

 

[darthtang 2]

Could always treat the area they are going to be in regularly. Think of it like your kids....if they got lice would just put a couple drops on their head or would you treat the lice on them and clean the entire area they inhabit?...regularly.

 

[smartorl]

A friend just moved from SoCal to Arizona and was amazed that she wasn't having flea issues. She thought maybe it was the time
of the year.
We use Advantage or Revolution on bunnies that we foster that have mites. Our vet doesn't recommend Frontline. Not sure if that's because usually the buns are so debilitated by the time we get them or not.

 

[darthtang 2]

The active ingredient in frontline is toxic for bunnies. According to government testing that is. Regarding fleas it has to do with elevation...I could be wrong on this...but that sticks out in my memory. Now ticks we got..wait I take that back. In recent years we are seeing an increase in what commonly called stick tight fleas...they don't jump..but are classified as a flea..behave similar to a tick though from my experience. But I am seeing these on rescue dogs out texas that the rescue group we help out is recovering.