What's wrong with the church today?

yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
I've just been dealt two crippling blows from two different churches who really gave me the short end of the stick. I've become so sick of all the ugliness in churches today... so sick of it that I've been thinking of starting my own church. One that doesn't launder money or use their money to pay for limo's and become pastors' personal bank accounts. I mean, if people are giving money to the church, shouldn't we do something good with it instead of keeping it all for ourselves? I'd like to see a church that might actually care more about the people who attend as opposed to caring about the property and making sure it "looks good."
There are a lot of issues I'd love to share, but I'd really like to hear your opinion. Although we are talking about the church and it is a political thing, please don't gravitate toward governmental politics and the election.
I'd like to hear from you what the church should do about everything... here are a few ideas:
Tithing/Offering/Money and how to spend it.
Community Involvement
Advertisement
Anyone?
And please, be serious. If you hate church, tell me why. If you don't like what the church is known for doing, explain it to me. I want to hear it all.
 
el guapo

el guapo

Active Member
I would have to say for the most part church just like everything else has been mutated into something far from its original purpose. My mom always said God is in your heart . She did attend church but she felt it was your daily actions that brought you closer to god . Not who you worshiped with or who lead the sermons . A lot of folks are involved with churches for the wrong reasons and it shows in the way they conduct them selves .
 
beenbag497

beenbag497

Member
Originally Posted by EL GUAPO
http:///forum/post/2769436
I would have to say for the most part church just like everything else has been mutated into something far from its original purpose. My mom always said God is in your heart . She did attend church but she felt it was your daily actions that brought you closer to god . Not who you worshiped with or who lead the sermons . A lot of folks are involved with churches for the wrong reasons and it shows in the way they conduct them selves .
that is the truth
btw i like the avatar
 
aquaguy24

aquaguy24

Active Member
brain wash..churches are big money..100% profit..thats just wat i think..i havn't been to church since i was like 6 yrs old..so i don;t know to much about them...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I haven't been in a church in a long time. It just seems like it becomes a social event. The last one I attended I was baptised in and was active in a few plays and such they put on. When I quit attending nobody from the church ever contacted me to ask why. Kinda said all I needed to know about the place right there.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Church, like anything run by people, can become corrupted.
When looking for a church, it's important to find one that has a Biblical system of Government. A lot of churches become messed up because they don't follow this simple model and allow too much authority to fall in one direction or another.
Church, to some extent, should be a social event. One of the purposes of church is to provide fellowship for believers.
Take some solice in the fact that it's not about "what's wrong with church today". As you read the NY letters you see the early church dealt with problems too....
 
al mc

al mc

Active Member
I would describe myself as a Christian who believes in God but have been totally turned off by organized religion. Corruption in the form of money laundering/living 'high off the hog', ----ual misconduct by preists/clergy with churches trying to cover up the indiscretions coupled with my feeling (I do not have statistics, just my opinion) that more people have died in the name
of my religion being the right one through history have really caused me to turn away from 'the church'
Personally, I feel that I can rationalize that any God I would believe in cares more about the content of my character than if I participate in organized religion in any form.
 
jeanheckle

jeanheckle

Member
If have not been involved with my church for sometime becuase I too have been struggling with my own spirituality. But I do believe my church handles things as God would want.
The collection plate is not passed, there is a wooden box in the back marked contributions. If you are able to contribute you do and if you can't you don;t. Know one knows what or if you put in.
There is a body of clergy, so not one man has the power. During hurricane Katrina and other catasrophes our church was rebuilding homes and likewise during other tradgedies without a newscamera following them.
Just writing this is making me wonder why I"m struggling. Yes God wants you to serve him from your heart, but the scriptures also tell us to continue to meet together so we can build one another up.
 
maxalmon

maxalmon

Active Member
I was raised Southern Baptist and attended church for many years when growing up.
In highschool, I really got into dinosaurs and ancient history, thats when little red flags started going off and all of a sudden all this physical evidence didn't jive with the way the bible described how the world was created, not going to bash anyone for how they believe, but how do you justify or ignore all the physical history and I won't even get into the monkey/man debate or how a highly trained scientist or archeologist (not me) could be a christian?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by maxalmon
http:///forum/post/2769543
I was raised Southern Baptist and attended church for many years when growing up.
In highschool, I really got into dinosaurs and ancient history, thats when little red flags started going off and all of a sudden all this physical evidence didn't jive with the way the bible described how the world was created, not going to bash anyone for how they believe, but how do you justify or ignore all the physical history and I won't even get into the monkey/man debate or how a highly trained scientist or archeologist (not me) could be a christian?
I reached exactly the opposite conclusion...
As I got more and more into my Major in Biology; as I dive the reefs around the world, as I understand the complexities of something as simple as one of our aquariums, I came to the conclusion it had to be Created.
The Bible is not contradicted by science. Man's interpretation of the Bible can be wrong, however.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
I think religion has become too commercialized. People attend Sunday services because they want to paint that picture of the 'well-rounded family'. I love it when politicians use the photo ops of them attending church on Sunday as a way to woo voters into thinking they are caring and wholesome individuals. Church was always meant to be a place where you could get spiritual guidance. Now it's become more of a social gathering. I have friends that attend church regularly, and they talk about this group of adults does this, a 'Teen group' that meets for outings, a group that sings in the choir, and group that plays in the band, etc. They spend more time filling up their social calendars than they talk about what they're getting from the sermons. That's why I quit going. I attended Catholic church for years. But it got to the point that I got absolutely nothing out of it. Yet, I get chastised by these 'religious' friends and co-workers because I don't take my family to church on Sunday. So I've dropped one rung down on the social ladder because I don't make weekly appearances to someplace that literally bores me to death. Sorry, but just because you go to church, doesn't make you better than me.
And what is with this required tithing? I've never been able to figure that one out. If you want to contribute money to your church so that they can make it a better place for you to get your spiritual guidance, no problem. But I know people who tell me the churches they go to require you to donate 10% - 15% of your income in order to stay in good graces with the church. One co-worker actually gets his 'tithing envelopes' sent to his office mail. I had one friend that went to a church that would send scathing letters, call him at home, or even announce the names of the individuals who were late on their tithing donations during Sunday service. Tell me those churches priorities.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2769428
I've just been dealt two crippling blows from two different churches who really gave me the short end of the stick. I've become so sick of all the ugliness in churches today... so sick of it that I've been thinking of starting my own church. One that doesn't launder money or use their money to pay for limo's and become pastors' personal bank accounts. I mean, if people are giving money to the church, shouldn't we do something good with it instead of keeping it all for ourselves? I'd like to see a church that might actually care more about the people who attend as opposed to caring about the property and making sure it "looks good."
There are a lot of issues I'd love to share, but I'd really like to hear your opinion. Although we are talking about the church and it is a political thing, please don't gravitate toward governmental politics and the election.
I'd like to hear from you what the church should do about everything... here are a few ideas:
Tithing/Offering/Money and how to spend it.
Community Involvement
Advertisement
Anyone?
And please, be serious. If you hate church, tell me why. If you don't like what the church is known for doing, explain it to me. I want to hear it all.
I used to attend one of those bigger flashier churches. One that was usually villified for the money they had. But when no one was looking they were turning around and giving 60-90 grand to the family of fallen law enforcement, no strings, no media nothing.
They were spending more to fund this private school than the church where the school was at. And were giving millions to various organizations people ect.
It takes money to do the things you want to do in ministry. I have no problem with that.
 
kingsmith

kingsmith

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2769556
To quote God:
'The wages of sin is death..." as Mr. Marx is now aware.
You see there is the great flaw in humanity and religion, trying to take something beyond our understanding and comprehension and putting it into our terms.
"To Quote God" what is that a joke
God #1 in the misquoted department
 
A

alexmir

Guest
Well i was raised pentecostal, and have over the past year decided to leave the church.(much to the dislike of some people. Me and my wife fear that her parents will disown her if she tells them, so for now they dont really know.) The way i look at it, disown-ing someone who doesnt believe like you is NOT christian at all. I have become disgusted with how people treat each other. Pentecostalism as a whole really turns me off, and dont discuss it very often because i tend to upset my brother and my family
. It is getting way too close to becoming a cult for me to be a part of it.
the thought that you have to wear skirts, and have long hair as a woman, and never wear shorts, cant go to the movies, cant watch TV etc.... is absolutely idiotic. Churchs make rules that were created by people, not God, so IMO why in the world wouldnt i just do what i felt was right, rather than what some old man tells me is right.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by maxalmon
http:///forum/post/2769543
I was raised Southern Baptist and attended church for many years when growing up.
In highschool, I really got into dinosaurs and ancient history, thats when little red flags started going off and all of a sudden all this physical evidence didn't jive with the way the bible described how the world was created, not going to bash anyone for how they believe, but how do you justify or ignore all the physical history and I won't even get into the monkey/man debate or how a highly trained scientist or archeologist (not me) could be a christian?
There are a lot of things in literature that solidify the findings of the existence of Jesus. You know "Alexander the Great"? His story is in history books across the U.S. Everyone has heard of Alexander the Great. But what you don't know is that Alexander the Great's story was found on a single scroll somewhere in the middle-east... and yet we consider it as fact, such to the point that we'll publish it in history books and include it in every child's curricular system in school. But what you don't know is that there were over 900 written accounts found recording Jesus' death on the cross and resurrection... and they are still being found to this day. Something has to be said about that.
Also, there are a lot of flaws in the evolutionary theory... the galapagos island birds, for example. Darwin stated that the species of bird on the islands had "evolved" their beaks to suit the needs of the nuts that grew from the trees, and it's a big basis upon where he got his evolutionary theory. What we know today is that there were actually two species of birds with different-shaped beaks, and one species would die off as the seasons changed, making it's food source limited. All the while, the other species is feasting on the differing plants that flourish in this season, because their beaks are shaped differently to accommodate them. It went in waves.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2769560
I reached exactly the opposite conclusion...
As I got more and more into my Major in Biology; as I dive the reefs around the world, as I understand the complexities of something as simple as one of our aquariums, I came to the conclusion it had to be Created.
The Bible is not contradicted by science. Man's interpretation of the Bible can be wrong, however.
There are a lot of very interesting facts about "intelligent design" ... the flagellar motor, for example. It's a "tail" that some single-celled organisms have, with 40 individual parts that make up this "motor." Evolutionary theory states that organisms make minor modifications or additions over thousands of years, but the flagellar motor, with it's 40 parts, would not work without all 40 parts... meaning if there were 39 parts, it would be totally useless.
The flagellar motor was designed. there's no way that all 40 parts just happened to come together by accident. it's like saying the engine in your car just kind of threw itself together and voila!
Dr. Michael Behe said it the best: "Let's say you went out and bought a single lottery ticket. As you watch the television program that evening, the host announces all six of your wining lottery numbers. You've won millions of dollars. Let's say the following day you do exactly the same thing, purchasing a single ticket and winning the lottery. Now, let's say this happens for 6 years, and every day you've purchased a single ticket, and won the lottery. That is the likelihood of the universe being created by 'random circumstance'."
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
I think church should be a place where:
Relevant, live-applicable teaching is given. I think the authenticity of your faith is influenced by the relevance of the speaking in the church. A lot of shallow, un-caring people go to church because it's the "right thing to do." And yet, if only we challenged them somehow, instead of giving them a history lesson every week. I think that's where authenticity can be rooted. Relevance.
Reefraff puts it well... he left the church and no one contacted him - it's because no one cared. How do you get people to care about others? By showing them how selfish they are. Think about it... everyone is so hung up on themselves that they don't ever really want to "care" about other people. But how the heck do we do this? Still trying to figure that one out.
Tithing is a completely open door. Everyone in the congregation knows how much money we have and where it's going. Furthermore, they can even specify where they want their money to go, whether it be to children's groups or student ministries, or hospice care, they should be able to decide where and how their money is being spent. Most importantly, tithing should NEVER be a requirement. Originally, Tithing came into play under Judaic Law as a required 10% of your income... this was to keep the preists fed and the grounds up-kept. When the early church began, Jesus never required any percentage from anyone, but people would give anyway... sometimes much more than 10%... and the early church gave the money to those who were in need. I think that's how church money should be spent.
 
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