While you were sleeping.............

[darthtang aw]

This country went retarded.....
http://www.charismanews.com/us/39313-pentagon-may-move-to-court-martial-christian-soldiers-who-share-faith
An exerpt :Weinstein is the head of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and says Christians—including chaplains—sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ in the military are guilty of treason, and of committing an act of spiritual rape as serious a crime as sexual assault. He also asserted that Christians sharing their faith in the military are enemies of the Constitution.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/30/morning-after-plan-b-fda/2125109/
Really?

 

[snakeblitz33]

I agree with spiritual rape... but treason?
I don't like anyones religion being pushed onto me. I'm neutral - and don't care who thinks they are right or wrong. I don't like it when anyone tries to make me feel bad for not believing that Jesus Christ was a god on Earth.

 

[beth]

I saw a documentary a few years ago (or it may have been on news type commentary show) where on a certain base (don't remember which) non-Christian military men where literally brow beaten, ostracized, by fundamental Christian group within the base and even within that community. One of the ex-military person interviewed said he was harassed out of service by these people.
Frankly, I'd say that certainly needs to be stopped.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18334.htm
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20922106/ns/us_news-faith/t/military-probes-atheist-gis-harassment-claims/
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/huntsville_times.html
Is it treason to promote your own agenda while you wear the uniform? My view is yes.
Also, the fundamentalist try to peddle their religion in areas where they absolutely have no business. They should be dishonorably discharged at the very least.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2009/06/18/christian-soldiers.html

 

[reefraff]

Yet it was a Muslim butcher who assassinated all those poor people at Ft. Hood

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520209
Yet it was a Muslim butcher who assassinated all those poor people at Ft. Hood
Reef, doesn't have anything to do with this situation.
No matter the religion, you should not be working it while on duty, while on the job, or in the workplace. That applies to every job in this country; why would the military be different? Service persons can attend any religious house they wish OFF DUTY. And if a service person wishes to talk about Christ to his buddy, then do it OFF DUTY and not at the workplace.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520212
Reef, doesn't have anything to do with this situation.
No matter the religion, you should not be working it while on duty, while on the job, or in the workplace. That applies to every job in this country; why would the military be different? Service persons can attend any religious house they wish OFF DUTY. And if a service person wishes to talk about Christ to his buddy, then do it OFF DUTY and not at the workplace.
If they put half the effort into monitoring a religion known for attacks on our citizens as they do demonizing Christians the Ft Hood massacre would have never happened.
The asinine statements about treason and spiritual rape tell you all you need to know about the motivation of those people. I agree officers shouldn't be proselytizing on or off duty but applying that same standard to enlisted men and women is absurd, and why were Christians singled out?

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520214
and why were Christians singled out?
Because Christians are the ones who feel it their duty to convert others to Christianity; and the fundamentalists are not happy that someone is a Christian, but it has to be "their kinda of Christian". Atheist were not the only ones effected. The guy who I said was interviewed was not an atheist.
I have no doubt that Christians will not be singled out. The new rule will apply to all religions.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520217
Because Christians are the ones who feel it their duty to convert others to Christianity; and the fundamentalists are not happy that someone is a Christian, but it has to be "their kinda of Christian". Atheist were not the only ones effected. The guy who I said was interviewed was not an atheist.
I have no doubt that Christians will not be singled out. The new rule will apply to all religions.
You seriously can't believe Christians are the only ones trying to convert people to their religion.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520214
and why were Christians singled out?
You know who's agenda it is to tear down the sytem created by the white, christian machine don't you?

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520217
Because Christians are the ones who feel it their duty to convert others to Christianity; and the fundamentalists are not happy that someone is a Christian, but it has to be "their kinda of Christian". Atheist were not the only ones effected. The guy who I said was interviewed was not an atheist.
I have no doubt that Christians will not be singled out. The new rule will apply to all religions.
You seriously can't believe Christians are the only ones trying to convert people to their religion.
They are the standouts in this country. I don't get Muslims and Buddhists knocking on my door every other weekend wanting to proselytize.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520222
They are the standouts in this country. I don't get Muslims and Buddhists knocking on my door every other weekend wanting to proselytize.
I've lived in this house more than 3 years and havent even had a visit from the Jawas or the Mormons LOL! My kid is in the Army and sees plenty of outreach by the Muslims too. There aren't as many but it still goes on but god forbid we should actually go after anyone but Christians. Like I said, it's part of a bigger agenda and I certainly aint a Bible thumper but I am getting damn tired of the double standard;

 

[snakeblitz33]

My wife is Missionary Baptist, and she has been attending an Assembly of God church that is disguised as an "Independent Family Church." She told me the other day that the reason she wants me to go to church is because she wants me to "come to know Jesus, so that your soul will be saved and we can live in Heaven for eternity." Then,... I asked her... If I don't believe in Jesus,... I'm going to Hell?" To which she replied... "yes."
Now, is it just me, or are Christians really self centered? So what she is saying is that if you don't believe that "Jesus Christ is your personal Lord and Savior" that you will go to Hell. Jews... Buddhists... Muslims.... anyone that isn't Christian. I just can't wrap my mind around that concept.
One other problem that I have with Christians is that they always want you to come to church and join them... I look at it like recruiting. They want to recruit people so that they can get more financial backing. Sure, they help the community out some... but for the most part they help themselves and build themselves multi-million dollar sanctuaries.
Lets just say,... I grew up Christian ... and was one until I reached the age of Reason.

 

[beth]

I believe the problem that resulted in this extreme measure by the military stemmed from extremely aggressive (and harassing) Christian fundamentalist here and abroad doing their duty to Christ rather then doing their duty to the USA. If you had seen the documentary I saw, you'd feel shocked. No one should be proselytizing during work hours or in work areas. No one should be accosting others and pressuring them to accept Christ. There are various religions on this planet, and not everyone is a fundamentalist Christian, nor do they wish to be.
Believe it or not, this has become a big problem in the military.
It is dangerous when soldiers in uniform deplored in Muslim countries are doing this. Is it treason for these soldiers to be using their military status as a medium for proselytizing when they know damn well its against orders and dangerous for military interests. I'd say they are getting really close to treason. The below vid is from Aljazzera, however, the video speaks for itself.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/rockbeyondbelief/2013/01/16/local-church-harassing-soldiers-at-fort-lewis-says-we-dont-care-about-laws/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/12/AR2007081200968.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/10/AR2005101001582.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washington/01church.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=christian%20u.s.%20military&st=cse
You must not live in the South. Knocking on the doors is commonplace in my community (even when you refuse entry and tell them that you have a different faith, they still come back).

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520240
My wife is Missionary Baptist, and she has been attending an Assembly of God church that is disguised as an "Independent Family Church." She told me the other day that the reason she wants me to go to church is because she wants me to "come to know Jesus, so that your soul will be saved and we can live in Heaven for eternity." Then,... I asked her... If I don't believe in Jesus,... I'm going to Hell?" To which she replied... "yes."
Now, is it just me, or are Christians really self centered? So what she is saying is that if you don't believe that "Jesus Christ is your personal Lord and Savior" that you will go to Hell. Jews... Buddhists... Muslims.... anyone that isn't Christian. I just can't wrap my mind around that concept.
One other problem that I have with Christians is that they always want you to come to church and join them... I look at it like recruiting. They want to recruit people so that they can get more financial backing. Sure, they help the community out some... but for the most part they help themselves and build themselves multi-million dollar sanctuaries.
Lets just say,... I grew up Christian ... and was one until I reached the age of Reason.
Perhaps you should research what other religion teach about "non believers" before singling out Christians. I personally believe in God and that he manifests himself in different ways to different people. I have a hard time believing someone who was born in India and never heard the gospel would be sent to hell because he was raised in a Hindu culture but that's just me.

 

[beth]

It is very true that all of the major religions can be exceedingly dogmatic about their beliefs to the extent of disrespecting other beliefs. That is the reason we have fundamental Muslims setting off bombs in the streets. However, some of the fundamental Christian groups have turned in to aggressive brainwashing sects with many many followers and political influence. There is no place for this in the military.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520251
It is very true that all of the major religions can be exceedingly dogmatic about their beliefs to the extent of disrespecting other beliefs. That is the reason we have fundamental Muslims setting off bombs in the streets. However, some of the fundamental Christian groups have turned in to aggressive brainwashing sects with many many followers and political influence. There is no place for this in the military.
If you are talking about approaching citizens of other countries I agree with you. If you are talking about fellow soldiers just because you join the military doesn't mean you lose all your first amendment rights. There are already rules and regulations in place to deal with harassing behavior. To make it a crime to simply mention your faith with another soldier, even if they don't mind. I find that obscene.

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/395415/while-you-were-sleeping#post_3520253
If you are talking about fellow soldiers just because you join the military doesn't mean you lose all your first amendment rights. There are already rules and regulations in place to deal with harassing behavior. To make it a crime to simply mention your faith with another soldier, even if they don't mind. I find that obscene.
Everybody is guaranteed religious freedom. That doesn't mean that you take it to the workplace to preach with it. The problem did not occur because a soldier mentioned s/he is a Christian to another solider. The problem occurred because of the aggressive harassment by fundamentalist of others in the workplace environment and even overseas. I'm not sure you understand where these people are coming from. First and foremost is their belief system and that includes their #1 goal to convert people to their own denomination. Even non-fundamentalist Christians are harassed by these people trying to get them to convert over to their church assembly. I had one JW who told me that the only the ones who will be going to heaven on Judgment Day are JWs! Oh, yeah, that was while we at work too.
In my personal exp. many of these extremist sects are the epitome of hypocrites. They don't believe in the brotherhood of mankind. Or be good on to others as you would have them be unto you. They believe in converts to their own assembly sects. They believe in obtaining control in as many aspects of our society as they can (including the military). While they don't try to get their message across with bombs, anyone who is not a member of their sect are targets for aggressive conversion or ostracized if they will not convert. They are fanatics. And yes, these fanatics have made our job more difficult and even dangerous for our military overseas.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I would hate to be in some kind of battle and my fellow soldier didnt have my back because of my personal religious beliefs.
And that is exactly the mind of judgement calls that some of those fundamentalist christians make.

 

[beth]

I love how Darth throws a firecracker in the room, then discretely sits it out. LOL

 

[dragonzim]

We had to fire a guy at my job recently because he would not stop preaching his fundy christian beliefs in the lunchroom while on breaks. He would harass people who were just trying to be left alone and have a cup of coffee by trying to engage them in discussions about religion and about how if they werent christian they were going to hell. Management got tired of it after asking him a number of times to stop and fired him. He tried to sue based on his right to free speech and was told that free speech does not carry over to harassment and the case never even got off the ground.