Why carry a gun?

mantisman51

Active Member
The ATF says there are 75 million firearm owners. The NRA says over 110 million. That is almost the exact same number as car owners, and yes, guns are more prevalent.than cars and kill far less people and in the hands of civilians save millions of lives a year-1.2-2.5 million per the Justice Department. So as usual. you are blowing smoke out your apple sauce sushi.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan175 http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/40#post_3485106
You know one thing I have found out more from this thread is until something happens to someone this country does nothing. I should have the right to own what I want in this country. I follow the laws and have no felony of any sort. If I chose to stay off of drugs not drink or smoke then why cant I go to the range and relieve stress shooting at targets. So if it is an ar or ak or handgun.
You're expecting every other citizen to believe you follow the laws and would never commit an illegal act using a gun. Sorry, but unless I know you personally and know what type of person you are, your character, and integrity, I could care less what YOU tell me. I still wouldn't trust you if I saw you walking down the street with a gun strapped on your side.
Like I said, gun ranges should rent those types of weapons for people who have a penchant to play Rambo. What's scary is your statement "Why can't I go to the range and relieve stress shooting tarets.." Yea, I REALLY want to be around someone whose stressed out who has a semi-automatic weapon in their hand. Ever hear the phrase "going postal"?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485109
The ATF says there are 75 million firearm owners. The NRA says over 110 million. That is almost the exact same number as car owners, and yes, guns are more prevalent.than cars and kill far less people and in the hands of civilians save millions of lives a year-1.2-2.5 million per the Justice Department. So as usual. you are blowing smoke out your apple sauce sushi.
How many times does a gun owner use his gun on a monthly basis, and how many times does the average driver use their car in that some monthly timeframe? Simple statistics.
Cite references for your claims.
 

morgan175

Member
Bionicarm you act like one of those crazy people that hide in their house and are scared to go outside. the problem with your theory is you have not disarmed the criminal or the person who sells guns out of his or her trunk. I do work for the post office.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485109
The ATF says there are 75 million firearm owners. The NRA says over 110 million. That is almost the exact same number as car owners, and yes, guns are more prevalent.than cars and kill far less people and in the hands of civilians save millions of lives a year-1.2-2.5 million per the Justice Department. So as usual. you are blowing smoke out your apple sauce sushi.
Your 2.5 million lives saved a year is based on a 1995 study when crime rates were vastly higher than today. Some data came from 1981, near the peak of the post-Vietnam War wave.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinion/frum-guns-safer/index.html
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan175 http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485113
Bionicarm you act like one of those crazy people that hide in their house and are scared to go outside. the problem with your theory is you have not disarmed the criminal or the person who sells guns out of his or her trunk. I do work for the post office.
Quite the opposite. I just don't live with a paranoia that someone is going to jump me, or stick a gun in my face every time I leave my house. I just spent a week down in Mexico, and I felt just as safe down there as I do in my own neighborhood. It's called being aware of your surroundings.
That is the problem - the guns being sold out of the trunks of cars where no background checks or verifications are being done. I posted a news story the other day where Dateline or one of those investigative reports showed them buying all kinds of weapons, including a .50 caliber Sniper rifle in the middle of the night in some local parking lot. Two people told the seller flat out that they couldn't pass a Federal background check, and the guy sold them the gun without a worry.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/40#post_3485102
Go ask the Founding Fathers if they envisoned someone having the ability to "bear" a weapon capable of mowing down several individuals in a matter of minutes without reloading. Again, you're not answering the question. What reasonable person needs a gun capable of shooting a 100-rounds in a few minutes? We've beat the "regualted militia" theory to death. Your AR is no match to the hundreds the government has to counter your attack.
We live in a free society. If you want to live in a place based on need might I suggest Cuba. Those who wrote the second amendment wanted citizens having the same weapons as the military because they feared our government would go the route of many before it and they wanted the people to be able to stand up for their rights. Quite frankly it doesn't matter what the founders would have thought about modern weapons. They also dictated that blacks were only counted as 3/5ths a person. As attitudes changed it required a constitutional amendment to fix that. Reason being is the dead old white guys knew the danger of allowing the government to change the rules based on the opinion of those in charge at a given time. Based on your argument the first amendment only applies to print media because it's a sure bet the founders never envisioned radio or TV, let alone the internet.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/40#post_3485103
Blah, blah, blah. How many times have I dispeled that stupid analogy. MILLIONS of cars, MILLIONS of drivers. 100 times more drivers than gun owners (no don't count the number of gun sales, considering you have some fanatics with 30+ guns.) How do I know you're a "law abiding citizens"? Everyone's a law abiding citizen until something snaps, and they're out using innocent civilians for target practice. So I'm supposed to take your word you'd never use that weapon illegally? So when you do cause an illegal death, we're supposed to go, "Ooops, never saw that coming. Oh well, you miss one every once in a while."
208 licensed drivers and an estimated 44 million gun owners. 2010 auto related deaths 32885. Number of homicides by firearms in 2009 11493 most recent numbers I could find. That 11,493 number includes all deaths by guns at the hands of another which would include those killed by law enforcement or by an armed victim of a crime.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/40#post_3485102
Go ask the Founding Fathers if they envisioned someone having the ability to "bear" a weapon capable of mowing down several individuals in a matter of minutes without reloading. Again, you're not answering the question. What reasonable person needs a gun capable of shooting a 100-rounds in a few minutes? We've beat the "regualted militia" theory to death. Your AR is no match to the hundreds the government has to counter your attack.
Comr on, do you really believe that things were not bloody as hell during that time?? The the British used Native Americans to ravage the countryside, and both sides used cannons to fire at men, women, children, old people...homes, settlements, forts, etc. There was a lot of horrible brutality that occurred back then, just as it does now. And that is why our right to bear arms, every citizen, is in the Constitution. Many feel that the founders had incredible insight and foreknowledge, you apparently are not one who does.
No match to fight off our government you say? WOW. If it ever came to that, I'm counting on our military not blindly following self serving orders from our government as did the Germans during the Nazi era. Actually, the USA has enough enemies in the world, that any real citizen driven revolution would be greatly supported by other countries I'd wager.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/40#post_3485108
That's good. Just because he's temporaily apprehened, he should sue the city. They took the guy out of the theater, cited him for displaying a weapon in a public place, and issued him a summons. If he had a concealed carry license or was legally allowed to carry the weapon on his side, then why was the summons given? Did he not have his license with him? Did he have it and the police simply didn't know the circumstances of the theater whereby they allowed weapons in their establishment? He said he's taken it to the movies before, but did the theater change their policies after the shooting in the other theater? Who cares if he thinks he wasn't a threat to anyone. Unless every single person knew who he was, they're supposed to trust his integrity that he wasn't some copy cat lunatic? Gotta love the arrogance of some gun owners.
Open carry means anyone who can legally own a gun can legally carry it in plain sight other than restricted places. Private property owners can prohibit you from carrying in their establishment and you can be cited for refusing to comply with said request. That didn't happen in this case. The first he knew of any issue is when the film was stopped and the lights were turned on. He walked to the lobby with his hand out from his side and was taken into custody. He also had a CCW as well. The cops over reacted, not that you can blame them.
 

sweat90lx

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485110
You're expecting every other citizen to believe you follow the laws and would never commit an illegal act using a gun.
This is disturbing to me. I have to believe you feel the same without the gun part added.
I worked in the Dept of Corrections for 8 years and I have a hard time trusting anyone, but I dont believe everyone that has a gun will use it for violence.
 

travelerjp98

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat90lx http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485150
This is disturbing to me. I have to believe you feel the same without the gun part added.
I worked in the Dept of Corrections for 8 years and I have a hard time trusting anyone, but I dont believe everyone that has a gun will use it for violence.
I agree, that is a disturbing statement.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
How many times does a gun owner use his gun on a monthly basis, and how many times does the average driver use their car in that some monthly timeframe?  Simple statistics.
Cite references for your claims.
Simple statistics? I carry my gun daily...just because it is not fired does not mean it is not used daily. Carrying is use......
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485121
We live in a free society. If you want to live in a place based on need might I suggest Cuba. Those who wrote the second amendment wanted citizens having the same weapons as the military because they feared our government would go the route of many before it and they wanted the people to be able to stand up for their rights. Quite frankly it doesn't matter what the founders would have thought about modern weapons. They also dictated that blacks were only counted as 3/5ths a person. As attitudes changed it required a constitutional amendment to fix that. Reason being is the dead old white guys knew the danger of allowing the government to change the rules based on the opinion of those in charge at a given time. Based on your argument the first amendment only applies to print media because it's a sure bet the founders never envisioned radio or TV, let alone the internet.
That's why the 1st and 2nd need modifications to adhere to present standards. God forbid if anyone ever attempted to modify those two. You might as well change the Ten Commandments while you're at it.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485131
Open carry means anyone who can legally own a gun can legally carry it in plain sight other than restricted places. Private property owners can prohibit you from carrying in their establishment and you can be cited for refusing to comply with said request. That didn't happen in this case. The first he knew of any issue is when the film was stopped and the lights were turned on. He walked to the lobby with his hand out from his side and was taken into custody. He also had a CCW as well. The cops over reacted, not that you can blame them.
He wasn't taken into custody. It didn't state specifically what the cops did to him, but he essentially received a ticket on the spot, and they let him go.
If a business has signage at the entrance of their facility stating that guns are not allowed on their premises, no one, including an individual witha CCW can legally carry their weapon into that business. So you're saying a movie theater isn't "private property"?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485163
Simple statistics? I carry my gun daily...just because it is not fired does not mean it is not used daily. Carrying is use......
Please. That has to be the lamest attempt at justifying "use" of a weapon that I've ever heard. So if I walk out an sit in my car in the driveway, I'm "using it"? If I just rub it a little, open the trunk, or open the door, I'm using my vehicle? If that's the case, cars are used 200million times a day, and all those statistics and percentages of deaths being caused by cars can be reduced to a .0000001% fatality rate. "Using" a gun is physically firing the weapon, the same a "using" a car means to drive it.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485128
Comr on, do you really believe that things were not bloody as hell during that time?? The the British used Native Americans to ravage the countryside, and both sides used cannons to fire at men, women, children, old people...homes, settlements, forts, etc. There was a lot of horrible brutality that occurred back then, just as it does now. And that is why our right to bear arms, every citizen, is in the Constitution. Many feel that the founders had incredible insight and foreknowledge, you apparently are not one who does.
No match to fight off our government you say? WOW. If it ever came to that, I'm counting on our military not blindly following self serving orders from our government as did the Germans during the Nazi era. Actually, the USA has enough enemies in the world, that any real citizen driven revolution would be greatly supported by other countries I'd wager.
The scary part is people like you, Reef, Darth, and mantis honestly believe that our society would denigrate itself to the point that a revolt requiring "citizens to come to arms" would actually occur. Did you have faith in our National Guard and police forces when they attacked innocent civilians at Kent St. in the 60's? How about the Los Angeles riots after Rodney King? The various riots Blacks created when MLK died? Those individuals followed orders, and people were injured and killed. To them, they were fighting "their cause against the establishment". If it did come down to our Federal Government protecting themselves against a rvolting citizenry, they wouldn't need many "boots on the ground". Tactical drones controlled at NORAD could wipe out the majority of dissendents. To be successful, you'd have to have at least 70% of the American citizenry to agree with your cause and why you're revolting against the Feds in the first place. The "opposition doesn't necessarily have to be our Armed Forces. They could be your next door neighbor who disagrees with you, and does agree with the federal government. Remember that little skirmish called the Civil War? If that happened today, deaths and injuries would pale in comparison.
 

sweat90lx

Member
How about the NG and police forces when Katrina hit? I guess they did follow orders as martial law was declared.
I hope our elected officials change the way they are doing things so there is never a revolt against them. I also believe most of our military would do what is right for the people, and definitely would not send drones to attack citizens.
Ill keep my guns regardless since it is my Constitutional right.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485381
That's why the 1st and 2nd need modifications to adhere to present standards. God forbid if anyone ever attempted to modify those two. You might as well change the Ten Commandments while you're at it.
You might be surprised how many gun owners would support a plain and simple clarification of the second amendment. I am not sure if modern politicians are able to craft such a document.
"Individuals have the right to keep and bare firearms and that right shall not be infringed, taxed or regulated beyond the exclusion of fully automatic weapons or explosive munitions. The government may require a permit at no cost for devices that would extend a firearm's capacity beyond 15 rounds."
I could sell that to most gun owners. It reaffirms our individual right and prevents the government from taxing or regulating us out of our guns. Having to get a permit so the government knows who has the high capacity mags is a small sacrifice.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392453/why-carry-a-gun/60#post_3485382
He wasn't taken into custody. It didn't state specifically what the cops did to him, but he essentially received a ticket on the spot, and they let him go.
If a business has signage at the entrance of their facility stating that guns are not allowed on their premises, no one, including an individual witha CCW can legally carry their weapon into that business. So you're saying a movie theater isn't "private property"?
I don't know where you get your news but you really need to find a new source. There are hundreds of news stories stating he was arrested, booked into jail and then released on a summons.
The theater had no such sign, at least if they did it hasn't been reported. I don't recall ever seeing such a sign at any theater.
 
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