Women who are legitimately raped, won't get pregnant

bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392706/women-who-are-legitimately-raped-wont-get-pregnant/60#post_3489312
I don't mind them skirting around the edges of moral issues. But when you think about it the Democrats get just as involved. Thanks to them if you get in a fight with someone who happens to be gay or a "minority" you can be charged with a civil right's violation if in the heat of the fight you utter anything that might be considered offensive to the party involved. If you exercise your right to practice your religion and that includes not wanting to rent your garage apartment to someone who's gay same deal.
As far as I am concerned everyone should have equal rights period and no special classifications for anyone.
Gays are the new "Negro" of the last two decades. Without civil rights laws, you'd probably have signs posted in certain establishments "No gays allowed". "No same-sex kissing". "No same-sex hand holding".
So you think it's OK to use derogatory and inflammatory terms that describe an individual simply because it's protected under the 1st? If a gay male is beaten senseless by four or five rednecks, and they didn't call him a deragoty term that describes his sexual preference while pummeling his face, then they should just be prosecuted for the offense itself, and not also for the reason why they were beating him in the first place? Those "offensive words" are used in a lawsuit because they provide the motive for the beating.
You actually want to use religious freedoms as an excuse to not rent to a gay person? KKK members think their organization is a "religion". So is it OK if one of them denies renting to a Black that garage apartment because it violated their "religious beliefs"?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Morality and ethics run hand in hand. You can't have a society with out them. It just comes down to what extent do you want the government getting involved.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392706/women-who-are-legitimately-raped-wont-get-pregnant/60#post_3489326
If government has no right to dictate what is moral.....Then why the need for a civil rights act? Why the need for hate crime charges? Are these not "moral" acts of legislature?
It appears we have different definitions of what you call morality:

mo·ral·i·ty
? <a onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io:'0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="#"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/M06/M0606000"><img border="0" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif"></a>?/m??ræl?ti, m?-/ moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
class="dndata">
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance.
Synonyms: character, decency, goodness, honesty, integrity, probity, rectitude, righteousness, rightness, uprightness, virtue, virtuousness
1
: righteous, upright
2
: being in accordance with what is just, good, or proper <right conduct>
3
: conforming to facts or truth : correct <the right answer>

Definition of RIGHTEOUS
1
: acting in accord with ]divine or ]moral law : free from guilt or sin
2
a: morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision> b: arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation>
3
slang: genuine, excellent

So base on these textbook definitions, I don't see how the context of morality even pertains to civil rights or hate crimes. Conservatives believe abortion and same-sex relationships are "immoral". Liberals, Moderates, and Independents may or may not agree with these beliefs. The government shouldn't enact laws based strictly on someones beliefs no matter which side you're on.
I would want to believe that both sides would agree that hate crimes and acts against a group based solely on race is wrong in the eyes of the law, ergo being "civil".




2.



civility - the act of showing regard for others
politeness
action - something done (usually as opposed to something said); "there were stories of murders and other unnatural actions"
courtesy - a courteous or respectful or considerate act
deference, respect - a courteous expression (by word or deed) of esteem or regard; "his deference to her wishes was very flattering"; "be sure to give my respects to the dean"
devoir - formal expression of respect




 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
It appears we have different definitions of what you call morality:
mo·ral·i·ty
? ?/m??ræl?ti, m?-/  Show Spelled
[muh-ral-i-tee, maw-]  Show IPA
noun, plural mo·ral·i·ties for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance.
 
Synonyms: character, decency, goodness, honesty, integrity, probity, rectitude, righteousness, rightness, uprightness, tue">virtue, virtuousness
1
: righteous, upright
2
: being in accordance with what is just, good, or proper
3
: conforming to facts or truth : correct
 
Definition of RIGHTEOUS
1
: acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
2
a: morally right or justifiable morality
3
slang: genuine, excellent
 
 
So base on these textbook definitions, I don't see how the context of morality even pertains to civil rights or hate crimes.  Conservatives believe abortion and same-sex relationships are "immoral".  Liberals, Moderates, and Independents may or may not agree with these beliefs.  The government shouldn't enact laws based strictly on someones beliefs no matter which side you're on. 
 
I would want to believe that both sides would agree that hate crimes and acts against a group based solely on race is wrong in the eyes of the law, ergo being "civil".
 
2.
civility - the act of showing regard for others
politeness
action - something done (usually as opposed to something said); "there were stories of murders and other unnatural actions"
 
courtesy - a courteous or respectful or considerate act
 
ww.thefreedictionary.com/deference">deference, respect - a courteous expression (by word or deed) of esteem or regard; "his deference to her wishes was very flattering"; "be sure to give my respects to the dean"
 
devoir - formal expression of respect
Is it immoral to beat someone? Is it immoral to kill someone based off their race? Is it immoral to throw someone out of the country they have lived in for fifteen years just because they don't have a green card? Is it immoral to kill? Is it immoral to steal?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392706/women-who-are-legitimately-raped-wont-get-pregnant/80#post_3489468
Is it immoral to beat someone? Is it immoral to kill someone based off their race? Is it immoral to throw someone out of the country they have lived in for fifteen years just because they don't have a green card? Is it immoral to kill? Is it immoral to steal?
You're quoting issues that are common sense. You don't have to have moral values to know killing or stealing is wrong and against the law. Morality has nothing to do with illegal immigrants. Again, that has to do with the law. Tell me what society would feel that killing or stealing instills moral values.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
You're quoting issues that are common sense.  You don't have to have moral values to know killing or stealing is wrong and against the law.  Morality has nothing to do with illegal immigrants.  Again, that has to do with the law.  Tell me what society would feel that killing or stealing instills moral values. 
Tell that to the survivors of 9/11 survivors that lost those gamy members to some one else's moral killing. Even though common sense says it is wrong. Not killing is a moral value. It is the highest of moral values. If it was common sense select religions would not condone the killing of innocent. Dropping the hbomb was a presidents hardest moral decision. His quote, not mine.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392706/women-who-are-legitimately-raped-wont-get-pregnant/80#post_3489501
Tell that to the survivors of 9/11 survivors that lost those gamy members to some one else's moral killing. Even though common sense says it is wrong. Not killing is a moral value. It is the highest of moral values. If it was common sense select religions would not condone the killing of innocent. Dropping the hbomb was a presidents hardest moral decision. His quote, not mine.
Read the definition of morality again. You're trying to justify your argument using examples that anyone with common sense would understand are wrong. Anyone who disagrees with the Conservatives ideologies of what is considered "moral" in their mind would never disagree that it is wrong to kill, steal, hate, or beat someone up. You always go to the extreme to try and prove your point. It's called living in a CIVILIZED society. I don't recall the Republican's creating a platform or "promise" that they are against killing, stealing, beating someone up, or hating your fellow Americans. Anyone with half a brain would understand these are a given. And please don't roll abortion into the definition of killing. That dog has been beat to death so many times here that it's an effort in futility to debate it anymore.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Anyone who disagrees with the Conservatives ideologies of what is considered "moral" in their mind would never disagree that it is wrong to kill, steal, hate, or beat someone up. 
Our prison system shows otherwise.
The reason there is no platform is most agree with these laws. Take away the murder and theft laws, and I guarantee theft would increase 300% easily. It is a moral decision/law. Look at every riot that happens...the crime of murder is a moral law, as is evidenced by the actions of people in riots. In a civilized society no less, people will still steal, kill, and maim if the threat of reprecussions are removed.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392706/women-who-are-legitimately-raped-wont-get-pregnant/80#post_3489577
Our prison system shows otherwise.
The reason there is no platform is most agree with these laws. Take away the murder and theft laws, and I guarantee theft would increase 300% easily. It is a moral decision/law. Look at every riot that happens...the crime of murder is a moral law, as is evidenced by the actions of people in riots. In a civilized society no less, people will still steal, kill, and maim if the threat of reprecussions are removed.
There's different "levels" of morality. You have these "moral" laws as you call them to protect the general population of a society from heinous crimes that a civilized society would logicaly understand are necessary. Then you have these other "moral laws" or beliefs that a certain faction of the population feel in their minds should apply to everyone in that society, regardless if the opposition feel they aren't necessary. These types of laws don't directly affect the population as a whole, and if someone commits one of these types of moral laws, it's more of a personal nature (i.e a woman having an abortion, or two individuals of the same sex getting married). These types of "moral laws" shouldn't be dictated by the Federal Government.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392706/women-who-are-legitimately-raped-wont-get-pregnant/80#post_3489512
Read the definition of morality again. You're trying to justify your argument using examples that anyone with common sense would understand are wrong. Anyone who disagrees with the Conservatives ideologies of what is considered "moral" in their mind would never disagree that it is wrong to kill, steal, hate, or beat someone up. You always go to the extreme to try and prove your point. It's called living in a CIVILIZED society. I don't recall the Republican's creating a platform or "promise" that they are against killing, stealing, beating someone up, or hating your fellow Americans. Anyone with half a brain would understand these are a given. And please don't roll abortion into the definition of killing. That dog has been beat to death so many times here that it's an effort in futility to debate it anymore.
LOL! Seriously? I know plenty of liberals who are moral. That means they don't lie, cheat or steal. An immoral person will make excuses for all of the above. The 0bama campaign is a good example of that.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
There's different "levels" of morality.  You have these "moral" laws as you call them to protect the general population of a society from heinous crimes that a civilized society would logicaly understand are necessary.  Then you have these other "moral laws" or beliefs that a certain faction of the population feel in their minds should apply to everyone in that society, regardless if the opposition feel they aren't necessary.  These types of laws don't directly affect the population as a whole, and if someone commits one of these types of moral laws, it's more of a personal nature (i.e a woman having an abortion, or two individuals of the same sex getting married).  These types of "moral laws" shouldn't be dictated by the Federal Government. 
Morality is Morality. See this is the problem. The more and more categories you create, the more and more problems you have. Prime example...if no one identified themselves based off their race...there would be far less racial profiling and racial judgements.
ALL LAWS AND POLICIES ARE BASED OFF A MORAL LEVEL! ALL!
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392706/women-who-are-legitimately-raped-wont-get-pregnant/80#post_3489623
Morality is Morality. See this is the problem. The more and more categories you create, the more and more problems you have. Prime example...if no one identified themselves based off their race...there would be far less racial profiling and racial judgements.
ALL LAWS AND POLICIES ARE BASED OFF A MORAL LEVEL! ALL!

mor·al
? <a onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io:'0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="#"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/M06/M0605600"><img border="0" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif"></a>?/?m?r?l, ?m?r-/ Show Spelled[mawr-uhl, mor-] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes
You call abortion "immoral". I don't. The law currently agrees with me. So which one is it, moral or immoral? If all laws and policies are based off a moral level, and abortion is legal in the eyes of the law, then based on your assumptions, abortion is moral.
It would be like living in euphoria if we could rid this world of "racial labels". That was one of MLK's main visions. However, you will never be able to stop people believing in their heritage, and you will always have groups of individuals who will proudly announce what their heritage is. When did the "hyphenization" of races begin anyways? I'm essentially a Heinz 57 in regards to the nationality's of my ancestors. I suppose I could call myself Native-Irish-Italian-German American (I'm 1/8th full-blooded Commanche), but what's the point?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

mor·al
? ?/?m?r?l, ?m?r-/  Show Spelled
[mawr-uhl, mor-]  Show IPA
adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes
 
 
You call abortion "immoral".  I don't.  The law currently agrees with me.  So which one is it, moral or immoral?  If all laws and policies are based off a moral level, and abortion is legal in the eyes of the law, then based on your assumptions, abortion is moral.
 
 
It would be like living in euphoria if we could rid this world of "racial labels".  That was one of MLK's main visions.  However, you will never be able to stop people believing in their heritage, and you will always have groups of individuals who will proudly announce what their heritage is.  When did the "hyphenization" of races begin anyways?  I'm essentially a Heinz 57 in regards to the nationality's of my ancestors.  I suppose I could call myself Native-Irish-Italian-German American (I'm 1/8th full-blooded Commanche), but what's the point? 
No, my assumption is not that the law makes an act moral. But that all laws are formed off a moral compass. Congress did not enact a law banning abortion. Thus the government has not officially weighed in on this. The states atried and the supreme court stated they couldn't.
Just because something is law however does not mean it is a moral law, and that has never been my point. My point is all laws are based on a person's morals. Hitler had no moral qualms about killing jews, ...But due to his lack of morals thus became law and policy. You would agree it is immoral to kill jews correct? EVERYTHING is based off morals. So to say government should stay out of moral decisions in our lives, is ridiculous. It is impossible.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
You can't have laws without some sort of moral compass to guide them. It's absurd to suggest otherwise.
 
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