Word Of Warning - Please Read
- Thread starter robn
- Start date
texasmetal
Active Member
Originally Posted by drksniper
only brightly colored cukes are the ones to watch out for. the rest are perfectly fine and provide a minimal risk to your tank. tigertails sandsifters like the ones swf.com sells are fine. if they do die they will release a minimal amount if any toxin. this would only play a devastating effect in smaller tanks say 30-40 gallons or smaller. carbon works wonders at taking it out but in larger tanks a skimmer will remove it fast enough.
-justin
Wrong.
The exact kind you are talking about killed all but 3 of 13 seahorses in our 60 gallon about 8 months ago, and the corals still aren't the same to this day.
Only good cuke is a cuke that isn't in my tank.
only brightly colored cukes are the ones to watch out for. the rest are perfectly fine and provide a minimal risk to your tank. tigertails sandsifters like the ones swf.com sells are fine. if they do die they will release a minimal amount if any toxin. this would only play a devastating effect in smaller tanks say 30-40 gallons or smaller. carbon works wonders at taking it out but in larger tanks a skimmer will remove it fast enough.
-justin
Wrong.
The exact kind you are talking about killed all but 3 of 13 seahorses in our 60 gallon about 8 months ago, and the corals still aren't the same to this day.
Only good cuke is a cuke that isn't in my tank.
grabbitt
Active Member
OW. Sorry to hear about your losses.. Especially on Christmas..
It's a fear of this that explains why I will never add a cuke or sea apple to my tank. It's good you are letting other people know so they can learn without having to experience it as you did, but it's too bad you had to go through it first
It's a fear of this that explains why I will never add a cuke or sea apple to my tank. It's good you are letting other people know so they can learn without having to experience it as you did, but it's too bad you had to go through it first
ratrod
Member
Very sorry to hear of your losses, I can identify with that maybe you seen my post(storm). Didnt realize the cucumbers were so poisenous. I had one get sucked into a power head one time and tore it in half getting it out and then tossed it in the tank and its still alive today with no prob. Sorry again for your loss
drksniper
Member
texas you obviously didnt have tiger tails or sand sifting cukes or a few others that are more then fine OR your jus a rare exception. based on what you said tho i can pretty much assume that you kept seahorses in a specices specific tank and you most likely had a small tank. BUT seahorses are very fragile as it is so even the small amount that the cukes released im sure could effect them or even kill them(as in your case) if the situation isnt given any attention fast enough, ie carbon water changes etc. ive lost a few cukes to powerheads or just died for no reason in my 90, 55 and 225 and ive never had a problem. i would not keep any other then a sandsifter variet in a nano or under 55 gallons just because tigers will release a small amount and in a smaller tank will effect life much easier then in a larger water volume.
the simple fact about them is very few animals will bother them and they are 1 of the premiere clean up crew members and when given a full cycled tank with good water parameters(dont need to be perfect) they will thrive easily. ill never own a reef tank with out at least a few cukes in there cause they simplay make the best garbage cleaners. sifting the top layers of sand but no bothering the bacteria much, eating debtris and left over food and ----. what more could you ask for? sorry to take away from the destruction the earlier poster has experienced but i dont like the rep cukes get because its unjustified. 99% of the time inexperienced or uninformed people buy them solely based on their color or because they were told to get a cuke with no further information. research and more research is your best friend in this industry but people really should bash animals with out proper experience or extensive knowledge of the animal.
the simple fact about them is very few animals will bother them and they are 1 of the premiere clean up crew members and when given a full cycled tank with good water parameters(dont need to be perfect) they will thrive easily. ill never own a reef tank with out at least a few cukes in there cause they simplay make the best garbage cleaners. sifting the top layers of sand but no bothering the bacteria much, eating debtris and left over food and ----. what more could you ask for? sorry to take away from the destruction the earlier poster has experienced but i dont like the rep cukes get because its unjustified. 99% of the time inexperienced or uninformed people buy them solely based on their color or because they were told to get a cuke with no further information. research and more research is your best friend in this industry but people really should bash animals with out proper experience or extensive knowledge of the animal.
robn
Member
I'm now running 3 trays of carbon and I did a 100 gallon water change this afternoon......everything looks great so far (other than 9 dead fish in my trashcan outside)
drksniper,
I knew beforehand that cukes could be a hazard but I never realized they could take out a tank as big as mine even if they did die....here's what I think happened in my case....the cuke crawled over the display overflow, thru the durso and into my sump (the only way it could have gotten down there)....it then got sucked into the bulkhead and pipe that runs to my skimmer pump. The pump impeller cut the end off the cuke and shut the pump off (the pump was off but still plugged in when I discovered all this).....when the water came out of the skimmer it flushed the cuke back out the pipe and back into the sump.....I found it right by the bulkhead in the sump.....a freak thing but there you go......
I am not trying to say that EVERY cuke is going to poison EVERY tank.....I'm just relating what happened to me. I would advise people not to chance ANY of the cukes, but that is everybody elses decision to make. If that is sullying the reputation of cukes, then so be it......if you choose to keep them then I certainly wish you better luck than I.
Caveat emptor
drksniper,
I knew beforehand that cukes could be a hazard but I never realized they could take out a tank as big as mine even if they did die....here's what I think happened in my case....the cuke crawled over the display overflow, thru the durso and into my sump (the only way it could have gotten down there)....it then got sucked into the bulkhead and pipe that runs to my skimmer pump. The pump impeller cut the end off the cuke and shut the pump off (the pump was off but still plugged in when I discovered all this).....when the water came out of the skimmer it flushed the cuke back out the pipe and back into the sump.....I found it right by the bulkhead in the sump.....a freak thing but there you go......
I am not trying to say that EVERY cuke is going to poison EVERY tank.....I'm just relating what happened to me. I would advise people not to chance ANY of the cukes, but that is everybody elses decision to make. If that is sullying the reputation of cukes, then so be it......if you choose to keep them then I certainly wish you better luck than I.
Caveat emptor
reefkprz
Active Member
Originally Posted by robn
I am not trying to say that EVERY cuke is going to poison EVERY tank.....I'm just relating what happened to me. I would advise people not to chance ANY of the cukes, but that is everybody elses decision to make. If that is sullying the reputation of cukes, then so be it......if you choose to keep them then I certainly wish you better luck than I.
Caveat emptor
well said. I feel your doing the right thing by letting others know of your expirience and your opinion that cucumbers arent worth the potential risk to your tank.
I keep cucumbers and dont intend to change that but I have also been aware of the potential toxin dangers presented by each and every species I keep by thourough research and study. While your experience is a dramatic and very unfortunate turn of events, like you said, your not saying every cucumber will do that but to you its not worth the risk.
same could be said for anemone with their toxic capacity upon dying and their penchant for wandering and devastating corals in their path yet many keep them in their reefs though they arent best suited for it (compatability wise).
I am not trying to say that EVERY cuke is going to poison EVERY tank.....I'm just relating what happened to me. I would advise people not to chance ANY of the cukes, but that is everybody elses decision to make. If that is sullying the reputation of cukes, then so be it......if you choose to keep them then I certainly wish you better luck than I.
Caveat emptor
well said. I feel your doing the right thing by letting others know of your expirience and your opinion that cucumbers arent worth the potential risk to your tank.
I keep cucumbers and dont intend to change that but I have also been aware of the potential toxin dangers presented by each and every species I keep by thourough research and study. While your experience is a dramatic and very unfortunate turn of events, like you said, your not saying every cucumber will do that but to you its not worth the risk.
same could be said for anemone with their toxic capacity upon dying and their penchant for wandering and devastating corals in their path yet many keep them in their reefs though they arent best suited for it (compatability wise).
drksniper
Member
Originally Posted by robn
I am not trying to say that EVERY cuke is going to poison EVERY tank.....I'm just relating what happened to me. I would advise people not to chance ANY of the cukes, but that is everybody elses decision to make. If that is sullying the reputation of cukes, then so be it......if you choose to keep them then I certainly wish you better luck than I.
Caveat emptor
DO NOT EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER PUT A CUCUMBER IN A TANK!!!!!!!
i guess i took that as a condemming of all cukes. while im perfectly ok with sharing experiences, i also believe that condeming an organism with out proper reason other then the hobbiest inability to keep it alive(anenomes, sps , some fish) or the freak chance it got sucked into a power head or in your case the sump is wrong.
if you want to give a warning by all means but i believe you couldve gone about if better if you had said it like " if you ever plan to keep a cuke think twice and do your research" and then shared your bad misfortune as personal evidence. they truely are blessing when propperly kept in reef and fowlr tanks and they carry a bad name by the few bad misfortunes cause as most people know mass populations remebers bad experiences far better then they do the good ones.
i really do sympathize for you and your bad misfortune, but i love this hobby and everything in it so i just dont like when a few of the hidden jewels(mainly cukes/hermit crabs) get bashed with out solid evidence.
as a word of caution or advice for anyone reading this thread to help prevent this from happening to you a simple piece of window screen over the overflow box in the tank secured with either e-poxy or another method will prevent this and sponges on any powerheads you may have that have intake suction(maxijet and the equals) to use sponges.
other then that only active watching of your tank every day and propper placement of the powerheads is your best friend. cukes primarily stay on the sand and lower rocks and also rarely venture up the rocks or glass(ive never seen any of mine higher then say 3-4 inches off the sand and i have 12 total between my tanks) so if you do want to place the powerheads close to the bottom to blow out the bottom area behind the rocks or another reason then put them upside down to decrease the chance theyll get close to the intake.
sorry for derailing the thread it wasnt my intention and i hope you are able to recover your tank and dont give up on the hobby like many others would. if you ever decide to have a change of heart on the cukes let me know and ill give you some other pointers
.
happy reefing
-justin
I am not trying to say that EVERY cuke is going to poison EVERY tank.....I'm just relating what happened to me. I would advise people not to chance ANY of the cukes, but that is everybody elses decision to make. If that is sullying the reputation of cukes, then so be it......if you choose to keep them then I certainly wish you better luck than I.
Caveat emptor
DO NOT EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER PUT A CUCUMBER IN A TANK!!!!!!!
i guess i took that as a condemming of all cukes. while im perfectly ok with sharing experiences, i also believe that condeming an organism with out proper reason other then the hobbiest inability to keep it alive(anenomes, sps , some fish) or the freak chance it got sucked into a power head or in your case the sump is wrong.
if you want to give a warning by all means but i believe you couldve gone about if better if you had said it like " if you ever plan to keep a cuke think twice and do your research" and then shared your bad misfortune as personal evidence. they truely are blessing when propperly kept in reef and fowlr tanks and they carry a bad name by the few bad misfortunes cause as most people know mass populations remebers bad experiences far better then they do the good ones.
i really do sympathize for you and your bad misfortune, but i love this hobby and everything in it so i just dont like when a few of the hidden jewels(mainly cukes/hermit crabs) get bashed with out solid evidence.
as a word of caution or advice for anyone reading this thread to help prevent this from happening to you a simple piece of window screen over the overflow box in the tank secured with either e-poxy or another method will prevent this and sponges on any powerheads you may have that have intake suction(maxijet and the equals) to use sponges.
other then that only active watching of your tank every day and propper placement of the powerheads is your best friend. cukes primarily stay on the sand and lower rocks and also rarely venture up the rocks or glass(ive never seen any of mine higher then say 3-4 inches off the sand and i have 12 total between my tanks) so if you do want to place the powerheads close to the bottom to blow out the bottom area behind the rocks or another reason then put them upside down to decrease the chance theyll get close to the intake.
sorry for derailing the thread it wasnt my intention and i hope you are able to recover your tank and dont give up on the hobby like many others would. if you ever decide to have a change of heart on the cukes let me know and ill give you some other pointers
.happy reefing
-justin
robn
Member
drksniper,
No you didn't derail the thread....BUT, just about all the online fish retailers have a warning about all the cukes that they sell.....must be some reason for it right?
I'm glad you have had success, and I hope you continue to....but IMO you are playing with fire......hope it turns out OK for you. As for me, I'm done with them...... I couldn't in all good consciousness have this personal experience go by without telling people what happened with my tank.......as for everyone else, they will of course make up their own minds.
No you didn't derail the thread....BUT, just about all the online fish retailers have a warning about all the cukes that they sell.....must be some reason for it right?
I'm glad you have had success, and I hope you continue to....but IMO you are playing with fire......hope it turns out OK for you. As for me, I'm done with them...... I couldn't in all good consciousness have this personal experience go by without telling people what happened with my tank.......as for everyone else, they will of course make up their own minds.
drksniper
Member
retailers will forever have a warning if it happens to 1 person or 10,000 because of 1 person threatening a lawsuit. just think of plastic bags and how they say dont put them over your head. its common knowledge but its all about covering there ass.
as far as playing with fire they would need to pose an immediate threat which they just cant do. if you get free time i would suggest you look up tiger tails or the sand sifting variet from the genus Holothuria and not from places like foster or the depot. look individual sites or research based sites and i think youll find its pretty conclusive that the community supports the safe side of cukes but they all give warning to the other half mainly sea apples, the brightly colored cukes and sea hares.
-justin
as far as playing with fire they would need to pose an immediate threat which they just cant do. if you get free time i would suggest you look up tiger tails or the sand sifting variet from the genus Holothuria and not from places like foster or the depot. look individual sites or research based sites and i think youll find its pretty conclusive that the community supports the safe side of cukes but they all give warning to the other half mainly sea apples, the brightly colored cukes and sea hares.
-justin
robn
Member
Justin,
You mentioned that you have a dozen or so cukes? Do you have anything other than the tigertails such as the brightly colored ones? The one that nuked my tank was a Holothuria edulis
Originally Posted by drksniper
as far as playing with fire they would need to pose an immediate threat which they just cant do
Could you expound on this further please? Are you saying that cukes cannot pose an immediate threat?
You mentioned that you have a dozen or so cukes? Do you have anything other than the tigertails such as the brightly colored ones? The one that nuked my tank was a Holothuria edulis
Originally Posted by drksniper
as far as playing with fire they would need to pose an immediate threat which they just cant do
Could you expound on this further please? Are you saying that cukes cannot pose an immediate threat?
1journeyman
Active Member
Sorry for your loss.
I for one will certainly have to research my cucumbers more thoroughly. I've always heard (and read) that the Caribbean varieties were far less toxic.
I had my cucumber decide to reside in my sump just a week ago. Fortunately I have pre filters on both my skimmer and return pump.
I for one will certainly have to research my cucumbers more thoroughly. I've always heard (and read) that the Caribbean varieties were far less toxic.
I had my cucumber decide to reside in my sump just a week ago. Fortunately I have pre filters on both my skimmer and return pump.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by robn
Good idea on the prefilters.....
I actually have mesh across the top of my overflows.....it got thru anyway, I'll get up there tonight and reseat/reglue them.
I thought I was the only one with a spelunking cucumber. THe route mine took to get into my sump amazes me.
Good idea on the prefilters.....
I actually have mesh across the top of my overflows.....it got thru anyway, I'll get up there tonight and reseat/reglue them.
I thought I was the only one with a spelunking cucumber. THe route mine took to get into my sump amazes me.
drksniper
Member
i actually have 5 sand sifting variets, a bright yellow, pink and black, a large black(when full streacheds he is prolly 12 - 16 inches+) and an australian sea apple.
i was referring to the more reefsafe variety with the fire comment. i watch my tank at least three times a day. once in the morning when the AM lights come on before work and then at night when i feed them and when the moon lights come on or when the evening lights come on and make sure everyone is still alive and no problems(cukes on a powerhead or anenomes roaming, etc). this means that worst case the longest the tank goes un watched is 10 - 12 hours which is the overnight hours. for the "more reef safe" varieties it takes a good while (over 12+ hours) before they will release enough toxin to build up to cause issues. ive had prolly 4 or 5 die over the years, ive lost 2 to powerheads i have mounted lower but not upside down to blow behind my rock walls, 1 actually crawled out of the tank and a few feet away from the tank (im assuming looking for another tide pool in his mind, and then 2 others just died im assuming because of water fluctuations at the time(power outage and i think i had a crash going from a cyano problem another). during most of those times they sat in there at least over night if not longer since i didnt catch the ones on the power heads till that evening and didnt seem them during the morning check.
best thing to remeber when keep cukes is to treat them like children. put up safety barriers and vigilant attention will provide the best potential to keep them successfully. sponges on your filters and powerheads and intakes, and covering the top of your overflows IF you have rock climbers(which none of mine are right now). and check for them in the morning and night just to keep track of them the best you can. doing this will give you pleanty of time to get them out if needed.
i am curious are you sure it was that type? how could you tell or were you going off what it was sold to you as? any pictures of it? once again sometimes the larger ones can cause a problem but you also were playing a very high risk game keeping them with seahorses. personaly i wouldnt keep anything over then snails and linkia stars with seahorses. they are just way to fragile and sensitive to changes. even the captive bred ones still dont have me convinced of the hardiness of them.
-justin
i was referring to the more reefsafe variety with the fire comment. i watch my tank at least three times a day. once in the morning when the AM lights come on before work and then at night when i feed them and when the moon lights come on or when the evening lights come on and make sure everyone is still alive and no problems(cukes on a powerhead or anenomes roaming, etc). this means that worst case the longest the tank goes un watched is 10 - 12 hours which is the overnight hours. for the "more reef safe" varieties it takes a good while (over 12+ hours) before they will release enough toxin to build up to cause issues. ive had prolly 4 or 5 die over the years, ive lost 2 to powerheads i have mounted lower but not upside down to blow behind my rock walls, 1 actually crawled out of the tank and a few feet away from the tank (im assuming looking for another tide pool in his mind, and then 2 others just died im assuming because of water fluctuations at the time(power outage and i think i had a crash going from a cyano problem another). during most of those times they sat in there at least over night if not longer since i didnt catch the ones on the power heads till that evening and didnt seem them during the morning check.
best thing to remeber when keep cukes is to treat them like children. put up safety barriers and vigilant attention will provide the best potential to keep them successfully. sponges on your filters and powerheads and intakes, and covering the top of your overflows IF you have rock climbers(which none of mine are right now). and check for them in the morning and night just to keep track of them the best you can. doing this will give you pleanty of time to get them out if needed.
i am curious are you sure it was that type? how could you tell or were you going off what it was sold to you as? any pictures of it? once again sometimes the larger ones can cause a problem but you also were playing a very high risk game keeping them with seahorses. personaly i wouldnt keep anything over then snails and linkia stars with seahorses. they are just way to fragile and sensitive to changes. even the captive bred ones still dont have me convinced of the hardiness of them.
-justin
robn
Member
Justin,
Well, as I stated earlier, I hope you continue to have good luck, but I'm sorry to say that "luck" is probably what you are having.....with that many and also with a sea apple you are really chancing it. If it will make any difference (and from reading your posts, I'm guessing it won't), I'll be glad to post references to all kinds of links saying that you are playing Russian Roulette. If you want the links, let me know.
Originally Posted by drksniper
this means that worst case the longest the tank goes un watched is 10 - 12 hours which is the overnight hours
Does this mean that if you can't account for all your cukes at any one time, you go searching for them so they are "accountable"? How do you know for sure where they are all located at any one given time?
Originally Posted by drksniper
for the "more reef safe" varieties it takes a good while (over 12+ hours) before they will release enough toxin to build up to cause issues
Quote another source for this please.
Originally Posted by drksniper
i am curious are you sure it was that type?
I know because I looked them up both before and after I bought it
Originally Posted by drksniper
but you also were playing a very high risk game keeping them with seahorses
I have never kept seahorses, never said I kept seahorses. You must be confusing me with someone else. This is in a shark/ray/eel/tang tank which would be the last place anyone would keep seahorses.
Again, I'm glad you like cukes and I wish you continued good luck with them, but I have to say that "luck" is exactly what it is.
Well, as I stated earlier, I hope you continue to have good luck, but I'm sorry to say that "luck" is probably what you are having.....with that many and also with a sea apple you are really chancing it. If it will make any difference (and from reading your posts, I'm guessing it won't), I'll be glad to post references to all kinds of links saying that you are playing Russian Roulette. If you want the links, let me know.
Originally Posted by drksniper
this means that worst case the longest the tank goes un watched is 10 - 12 hours which is the overnight hours
Does this mean that if you can't account for all your cukes at any one time, you go searching for them so they are "accountable"? How do you know for sure where they are all located at any one given time?
Originally Posted by drksniper
for the "more reef safe" varieties it takes a good while (over 12+ hours) before they will release enough toxin to build up to cause issues
Quote another source for this please.
Originally Posted by drksniper
i am curious are you sure it was that type?
I know because I looked them up both before and after I bought it
Originally Posted by drksniper
but you also were playing a very high risk game keeping them with seahorses
I have never kept seahorses, never said I kept seahorses. You must be confusing me with someone else. This is in a shark/ray/eel/tang tank which would be the last place anyone would keep seahorses.
Again, I'm glad you like cukes and I wish you continued good luck with them, but I have to say that "luck" is exactly what it is.