Would You Hire a Vocal Atheist?

agent707

Member
Originally Posted by Farslayer
Anyone study the remains of Jesus?..........
......There is nothing found of Jesus, no bones, no graves,
Uhhh, What? Are you that uneducated? Let me remind you then. Jesus is not dead.... He rose from the dead after three days. We are reminded of this yearly. It's called Easter Sunday? So no, you're not going to find any bones or graves with any traces of him.

Originally Posted by Farslayer
Many people wrote about Caesar, there is quite a bit of evidence for him.
Hmmm.... Many people "wrote" about Caesar... This is quite a bit of evidence you say? Oh. Yea, I already covered that.

Originally Posted by Farslayer

Where is the evidence for Jesus?
Well, many many people wrote about him all the same.
Here's one for you. Did anyone write about Caesar BEFORE he even existed? No?
This can be said about Jesus though.
 

agent707

Member
Originally Posted by grumpygils
A great book is "Tornado in a junkyard". I can not remember who wrote it but it is packed with scientific fact. I like that kind of stuff. I need to prove things to satisfy my scientific back ground. The bottom line is that the chances that we ended up here as man with out divine intervention and design, is about the same chance of a tornado hitting a junk yard and a 747 pops out the other side. No matter how many times it hits, no airplane is coming out.
IMO

Mc
Now that's funny.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Agent707
That's not the kind of proof they are talking about... they are carnel minded and don't see things the same way. No use in trying to prove anything. It is futile.
You see, what you must do, is provide links to articles, or books where someone has written knowedgeable articles and whatnot... This is considered "proof" of something. When great minded scientists gather and lock themselves in a building and do research... and make discoveries, they document EVERYTING in books and such... then We in turn, read about their Great discoveries! This is what is known as "proof". None of us have ever seen any of their great discoveries first hand... maybe a video, or something... but we mostly have to rely on what they recorded in their books as evidence.
Yes, I do believe the carbon atom Does exist... but I have never seen one. And yes I believe 18% of the human body is made up of carbon atoms... but I haven't counted them. So what proof did I get? I read about it in books.
So, unless you can produce a link to where someone has written about God, or produce a Book where someone has written about Him, well... forget about proving it!

Oh, and just like science... who "claim" they saw what they saw, so do the people who wrote about God.
And jmick is an Atheist. But is just not willing to admit it. A true agnostic wouldn't have anything to do with this dicussion. They simply wouldn't care one way or the other and would have absolutly no opinion. Yes jmick, that's right.

Oh, I almost forgot. Someone asked for "proof" of Noah's Ark? "Scientist" have "proven" that the world was once covered by water... about 8 thousand years ago. But, they could be wrong... however, they ARE scientists... so how could they be?

I didn’t realize I was an Atheist till you hit it on the head! I am Agnostic and on this thread I want our Christian friends to come up with something new instead of giving us all the same old canned answers when we question your god and bible and the only way to do that is to question you.
That said, I am not a fan of Christianity, I think over time it has done a lot more harm then good and has been a continual source of hatred and violence and has been a vehicle for some of the worst atrocities in the last 1000 years. No other religion so vehemtly denies the existence of gods of all the other religions while becoming so outraged when someone questions your own god. You deny that we evolved from other creatures while agreeing with the bible that we were created from dirt. You ridicule polytheists but believe in a triune god.
The best part is that NO ONE has been able to prove that Jesus was the son of god or even existed. It’s the greatest hoax in the history of mankind.
Final note, what does the Earth being covered in water have to do with the Noah’s Ark? I guess by your logic, since the Earth was covered in water then there would have had to have been an ark (Noah’s of course) with one pair of every animal that would repopulate the Earth when it dried out? This is just so damn silly, it’s a great story for children but adults should really know better.
 

watson3

Active Member
Originally Posted by Agent707
Hmmm.... Many people "wrote" about Caesar...

Please read the entire thread as you seem to be repeating many things that I have already put out there..Almost word for word
 

agent707

Member
If the earth was covered with water... someone had to survive somehow didn't they? Moses was the only person to write a story about it... no one else did. So we'll, just have to figure it was Noah and his ark who made it through... And well... If the earth was covered with water, just 8,000 years ago. All the land animals we have today must have survived somehow too, right? Well... Just a though.

I wouldn't go as far as saying Christianity is to blame for all the violence over the last 1000 years. Religion! Yea, blame it all on that. Heck, religions have been fighting since... well, Abraham. LOL.
The best part is that NO ONE has been able to prove that Jesus was the son of god or even existed. It’s the greatest hoax in the history of mankind.
Sorry, but this is the part that makes you an atheist, not agnostic.

Ah, don't worry about it. No one can prove anything anyway. Everything is based on faith and belief if you think about it.
I have faith in the scientist who say I am made of 18% carbon. And thus I believe them. You can't say you have any more than that.
This pretty much goes with everything. Just have faith in what they say, and believe what you want.
You can't ever get anyone to PROVE anything to you. You can only get them to show you where they read it and believed.
There's only one thing I can prove to you... My alias is Agent707. :joy:
Anything else, you just have to take my word for it. If you don't believe what you've read about God, then don't believe. That's your choice and I don't have a problem with it. Just don't demand of me to prove to you anything. All you can do is read. If that's no enough, than there's not much else left is there.
What most of us know about history is simply based on what we've read and what we believe.
This is really an endless cycle that has gone on for centuries... which has no solution to it other than, if you don't believe what you've read, then don't. Life goes on.
 

agent707

Member
Originally Posted by watson3
Please read the entire thread as you seem to be repeating many things that I have already put out there..Almost word for word
Uhhh... What?
 

jmick

Active Member
Let me get this straight Agent. I am an Atheist because I deny the existence of Jesus?
Well what if I said I believe that Samildánach may have existed...he is a god after all...
 

phixer

Active Member
I really doubt if your mind is going to be changed by something you read here. Maybe God does not exist for you, but how can you be sure God does not exist? you cant. Science cant prove or disprove it, even Einstein belived in God but could not prove or disprove Gods existance.
One may not believe in the existance of God which is where faith comes in. If you lack faith then for you God does not exist. Dosent make someone any less of a person I supposed. I would not want to be them though.
 

agent707

Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Let me get this straight Agent. I am an Atheist because I deny the existence of Jesus?
Well what if I said I believe that Samildánach may have existed...he is a god after all...
Naw, I'm not going to argue with you over it. It doesn't matter. I suppose it really doesn't matter what badge we wear anyway, huh?
It is the fruit we bear which makes us what we are. Not by what we call ourselves.
An orange tree isn't an orange tree because we call it "an orange tree". It is an orange tree because it "bears oranges".

Nighters!
(GOD)
hehe
 

agent707

Member
Originally Posted by Farslayer
What parts? That there really is an Israel? (well, after 1967 that is).
You mean May 14, 1948. And that's just when it became a "state".
It has been a nation since God changed Jacobs name to Israel. You know who Jacob is, right? He was Isaac's son. Isaac's half brother, Ishmael. You know him, right? Basically the father of Islam. And their father, Abraham.
Jacob bore 12 sons, which bacame the 12 tribes of Israel, and thus bacame a nation.
Islams can trace their lineage all the way back to Ishmael.
Jewish can trace their lineage all the way back to Isaac (Jacobs father).
Thus, both nations (religions) can trace their lineage ALL the way back to Abraham.
Now you know why Islam and Jewish (and Christians for that matter) don't get along.... at all.
This is all well documented by both the Jews and Islams outside of the bible.
Now, you know.
 

hagfish

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
I didn’t realize I was an Atheist till you hit it on the head! I am Agnostic and on this thread I want our Christian friends to come up with something new instead of giving us all the same old canned answers when we question your god and bible and the only way to do that is to question you.
That said, I am not a fan of Christianity, I think over time it has done a lot more harm then good and has been a continual source of hatred and violence and has been a vehicle for some of the worst atrocities in the last 1000 years. No other religion so vehemtly denies the existence of gods of all the other religions while becoming so outraged when someone questions your own god. You deny that we evolved from other creatures while agreeing with the bible that we were created from dirt. You ridicule polytheists but believe in a triune god.
The best part is that NO ONE has been able to prove that Jesus was the son of god or even existed. It’s the greatest hoax in the history of mankind.
Final note, what does the Earth being covered in water have to do with the Noah’s Ark? I guess by your logic, since the Earth was covered in water then there would have had to have been an ark (Noah’s of course) with one pair of every animal that would repopulate the Earth when it dried out? This is just so damn silly, it’s a great story for children but adults should really know better.
It is becoming clear to me at least that you are totally ignoring the facts given to you and moving forward with your own assumptions. Historians of all kind believe Jesus existed.
If Christianity is correct, then other religions aren't. There is no room for middle ground with Christianity. What is so hard to understand about that? The things in the Bible DO NOT mesh with any other religion such that you can splice them together. And the Bible tells us to spread God's word. So that's what we try to do.
It's mostly people who claim to be Christians, but are very likely not truely so, that make Christianity appear in a bad light as you refer to. Hitler is a good example again.
 

hagfish

Active Member
Originally Posted by Agent707
Now, you know.
And according to G.I. Joe, knowing is half the battle

Sorry, that quote from G.I. Joe is forever stuck in my head.
 

garnet13aj

Active Member
You said it yourself "If someone wants to believe in god, that is fine with me." And before that you said it is "your opinion" that they are wrong. So which is it?
I believe that these can both exist simultaneously. If he believes he is right then obviously he has to believe you are wrong. At the same time, he says you have a right to your own opinion. No clash as far as I can see.
Anyway, although I don't mind the discussion over the historicity of the bible. I have another question.
For thos Christians out there. How do you feel about evolution. According to my roomate who went to a Catholic high school and took an extensive religion class there, the official Catholic stance is that evolution did occur. But how do you feel and why. And if you don't believe in evolution, can you give an extremely basic description of what you think it is, to make sure what your describing is what I'm asking about. Thanks. And thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion civil, it's been an interesting read.
I'm an atheist and until I took the intro to biology class at my university I never knew if I "believed" in evolution. I'd always heard about it, but I had no idea what it was. Now that I understand atleast the basic concept of it, I'm sure that it happened, although I don't have any clue what happened at the very beginning, I do know that evolution is read. I was just interested to hear some other opinions.
 

garnet13aj

Active Member
I thought this was an interesting read of a class curriculum for teachers to attend that instruct 7th and 8th grade students.
http://www.cis.yale.edu/ynhti/curri...94.03.01.x.html
We did a brief version of this in my world history class in 9th grade. It was pretty cool. We didn't go into a ton of depth or do as many of the religions, but it was still informative and helped a lot when trying to learn the history.
 

cannonman

Member
I think this is one really American problem.. everybody is affraid these a days that they are going to offend somebody- I mean really. I'm not athiest and I wouldn't want one working for me but I have the b@lls to say it- most don't. Sure you have just as much right as the next guy right?? Well don't I have a right to say I don't want this person then to? Is this person's right to be an outspoken athiest more important than my right to be an outspoken anti athiest???????? Nobody can say anything anymore without somebody being offended and it makes me sick to my stomach... people are getting so used to being force fed all this JUNK my the MEDIA that they take if for granted now and can't even tell the difference between right and wrong anymore.. IMO it's why we can't seem to win a war anymore either... because Americans can't stomach it anymore...war is HELL and war in NOT nice and we (in general as Americans) can't handle it..(what it takes to win a war) I'm talking about the public, not our soldiers, which are just as dedicated and just as courageous as they have ever been EXCEPT that we and our elected officials TIE THEIR HANDS so they can't fight...(wouldn't want to accidentally kill an innocent person now would we?????) Wouldn't want to accidentally destroy a hospital???would we? No, DESPITE the fact that these people we're fighting can do whatever they want to.. despite the fact that they will use schools, hospitals, and mosques to store weapons and plant their next attack.. these people know how to fight dirty and what they should get is a good old fashioned but kicking by the good old USA BUT: we can't do that... because that wouldn't be nice and some liberal freak in LA would lead a million man march to the capital to protest the horrible war and the destruction of schools and what not.. I don't think we even have any business being there but if you're going to fight a war then do it right and get it over with... they take an American civilian hostage and cut off his head on tape then go and grab the first 100 of them you see and hang them in public for all to see... wonder how many more hostages they would take? So would I hire the outspoken athiest? No. Why? Because I don't like outspoken athiest as a general rule of thumb.
 

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by garnet13aj
I believe that these can both exist simultaneously. If he believes he is right then obviously he has to believe you are wrong. At the same time, he says you have a right to your own opinion. No clash as far as I can see.
Anyway, although I don't mind the discussion over the historicity of the bible. I have another question.
For thos Christians out there. How do you feel about evolution. According to my roomate who went to a Catholic high school and took an extensive religion class there, the official Catholic stance is that evolution did occur. But how do you feel and why. And if you don't believe in evolution, can you give an extremely basic description of what you think it is, to make sure what your describing is what I'm asking about. Thanks. And thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion civil, it's been an interesting read.
I'm an atheist and until I took the intro to biology class at my university I never knew if I "believed" in evolution. I'd always heard about it, but I had no idea what it was. Now that I understand atleast the basic concept of it, I'm sure that it happened, although I don't have any clue what happened at the very beginning, I do know that evolution is read. I was just interested to hear some other opinions.

obviosly i dont believe in evolution as far as us coming from apes because i believe in creation, but.... i do believe over time we can evolve as far as technoligyor animals becoming tolerant to certain thing over time to make them stronger
i was to a microbioligy student and they shoved this chit down my thruot until i almost believed it but there are so many holes in this theory and theres no way to prove it
 

agent707

Member

Originally Posted by garnet13aj
How do you feel about evolution. According to my roomate who went to a Catholic high school and took an extensive religion class there, the official Catholic stance is that evolution did occur. But how do you feel and why. And if you don't believe in evolution, can you give an extremely basic description of what you think it is.
Firstly, I'm not Catholic. In the general Christian population, Catholics are regarded as being "too liberal and flexible" of all the denominations. I say that, because much of what they say as their “doctrine” is in direct conflict of what the bible says. I won't go into it too much, but “evolution” is a prime example.
Take these verses from Genesis for example. These are the only ones that really apply to what you're asking… You can read all the in-betweens, but you will see they don't really add or take away from anything we're talking about.
Originally Posted by New International Version (easier to read than KJV)

Genisis Chapter 1: 26-29
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
And in Genisis Chapter 2:18,22-23
18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman', for she was taken out of man."
OK, based on these scriptures alone, ANYONE who claims they are a Christian and “believes” in the bible in its entirety - and says they believe in EVOLUTION is, for a lack of a better word - Illiterate.
Notice how Adam "spoke" in verse 23 as soon as the woman was made. This is because he was a fully developed PERSON.
Let's pick it apart if you will.
“Let us make man in our image”
us
is widely accepted to be in reference to the God Trinity. Father/Son/Holy spirit.
John Chapter 1: 1-3 Explains this pretty clearly.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
He is simply stating that the Son (Jesus) existed from the beginning of time. This is the main scripture that declares Jesus as being God himself.
Anyway, not trying to go in the “Jesus” direction, but it does apply.
When God said “us” and then “our image”, he was simply saying he created man on the spot. And immediately says that man will “rule over” pretty much everything.
If God create “man” in his image… then we couldn't have “evolved” from plankton… or whatever.
Keep in mind, this all happened on the sixth day.
Genisis 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day.
Evening/Morning… day 6. Not millions of years of evolving. I know people say all the time that Gods time is not our time, but… it was pretty clear that this was just “a day”. And by day 7, he was “Finished” with everything.
I don't know. It's kind of hard to interpretate these writing any other way, other than “No, we didn't evolve, we were created.”
But again, that is just a big pill you have to swallow.
<continued>
 

agent707

Member
About dinosaurs…. You got me. I can't explain it any better than anyone else. I do have this theory I came up with… which turns out a few other had the same idea.
If you take the early writings literally and assume the earth is only 10,000 years old… There were no mention of dinosaurs in it, no living person wrote about them… so one can assume they never existed.
Yea, that's a far fetched one there, and I DON'T claim that to be the case. All I am saying is God could have simply put them bones all over the planet for whatever reason. Maybe he wanted to give non-believers something to argue over?? Who knows? To me, it's a moot point. What difference does it make. All it is to some people is just “Proof” the bible is a hoax. It could very well be something God planted here to test our faith with…. To see how much we really believe his word?
One thing I have learned, is you can't put limits on God. He can do anything. And we would have no understanding of it. Zero.
And I don't claim to know anything about the earth being millions of years old. Carbon dating is not very accurate beyond about 8,000 years (around the Flood). Many many scientist admit to this.
The only “evidence” we have the earth is millions of years old is 1) dinosaur bones. 2) carbon dating.
Since No man has ever written about seeing a live dinosaur, and carbon dating can't really be relied on for that long ago… there really is no concrete evidence the earth is as old as claimed… Only “theories”.
My take on it like this. It doesn't matter. Look how much time the bible spent talking about the beginning times. The bible ZIPS right though it in just a couple of chapters… so I take it as being something of small significance. It simply doesn't matter.
It is FAR more important to know where you're going, then where you've been.
Hope that helped.
Lastly, about the question on "What is a Christians take on Evolution?"
Again, any Christian who doesn't suffer from Illiteracy and who "actually reads and studies" the bible could not possibly believe in evolution. And those that do... well, you have my permission to just wave your arm at them, and just say "Bah!"....
 

shogun323

Active Member
Originally Posted by garnet13aj
I believe that these can both exist simultaneously. If he believes he is right then obviously he has to believe you are wrong. At the same time, he says you have a right to your own opinion. No clash as far as I can see.
Anyway, although I don't mind the discussion over the historicity of the bible. I have another question.
For thos Christians out there. How do you feel about evolution. According to my roomate who went to a Catholic high school and took an extensive religion class there, the official Catholic stance is that evolution did occur. But how do you feel and why. And if you don't believe in evolution, can you give an extremely basic description of what you think it is, to make sure what your describing is what I'm asking about. Thanks. And thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion civil, it's been an interesting read.
I'm an atheist and until I took the intro to biology class at my university I never knew if I "believed" in evolution. I'd always heard about it, but I had no idea what it was. Now that I understand atleast the basic concept of it, I'm sure that it happened, although I don't have any clue what happened at the very beginning, I do know that evolution is read. I was just interested to hear some other opinions.
I think evolution is undeniable. So much scientific data backs it up. I honestly believe that. What I don't believe in is evolution as our origin and that we and this wonderful world we live in happened by random chance and we are simply the result of a scientific anomoly. To me Christianity and science go hand in hand. They have to. Who can deny the existance of cro magnon man or australopithecus? They truly existed. How they fit into God's scheme I don't know. Nor do I take everything in the Bible literally. I don't believe that the earth was created in 7 literal days. Not that I don't think God wasnt capable of it I just don't take it literally. In fact it even says that a day is as a thousand years to God.
Furthermore, I don't believe the whole world was ever flooded. It makes absolutely no sense at all. 2 of EACH animal? No way. However, consider this. Back in the day there was no word for earth. In fact, they didnt even know how vast the earth was. To them their "land" was the Mesopatamian region. Here is the kicker, Science has discovered proof in the matrix of the earth that there was an ancient deluge that flooded all of the Mesopatmian region. Makes sense to me now, it is scientifically backed up. (I know everyone thinks I am a heretic right now but this all came from a show on the discovery channel
)
The bottom line is that I believe science and the Bible go hand in hand.
Finally, I understand why alot of people view Christianity the way they do. Christianity is full of Granola (nuts and fruits) and all the media exposure for Christianity comes in the way of Late night tv evangelists wanting money or news headlines with the local pastors latest scandal. Truly it's sad. It's tragic that when people hear the word Christian they think of the term judgemental hypocrite and I understand why. Anyway, just know that we are not all that way. A very good friend of mine is an aetheist and she is one of my favorite people. We have great talks and ask ever other probing questions about each others beliefs. It's is quite intellectually stimulating. I believe one should questions everything and never hold to a belief just because you were told too.
Wow, I am rambling.Good night.
 
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