Wrong information

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2934185
Look, if you want to nickle and dime it, the saltwater hobby is NOT for you. You should GET OUT NOW. Go ahead and get your sand, you seem to be so convinced about it already. Go ahead and do it, you don't need us to give you permission.
Easy SnakeBlitz - from his perspective, he's asking a valid question.
Originally Posted by Gooch

http:///forum/post/2934203
70-80 dollars isnt nickel and diming things...
The only reason I am convinced is that nobody has offered any reasonable reasons as to why not to use the calcium based playsand. All I have seen have been comments like "why chance it" or "just spend the extra and get the aquarium sand" instead of saying something along the lines as well the calcium based play sand will not work well because of x and x...
I like to have a reason before I just throw away money at something that there appears to be a completely viable cheaper solution...
I would certainly be open to hearing reasons why I shouldnt go with the calcium based play sand that arent based on speculation as I have not purchased it yet and am going at this slow. But I do not appreciate people trying to convince me to leave this hobby simply because I want more concrete answers on things before I open up the wallet.
Gooch, once again, you are looking for a simple "wrong or right" when again, there is no "wrong or right" answer. As I stated - I've read about and actually know people who have used the play sand and have had no issues - I've also read about and know people who tried it and it failed miserably. Perhaps as you said, the difference is in the "vinegar test". However, there is also a possibility of other factors - absorption or leeching of materials for instance - that aren't necessarily looked out or controlled in bagging play sand, but would be in the bagging of sand for live aquariums (at least we hope). Again, based on speculation - like you, I often look for ways to make savings - some I take, some I choose not to. To me personally, if I were spending the $5,000 to $6,000 dollars its going to take to set up that big tank right, spending a couple hundred on sand wouldn't be an issue - it would simply be something I had factored in to make sure I did it right. How are you going to feel after you spent $6,000 on a tank set-up if (not saying it will) it crashes because of the sand, but you saved a few hundred dollars? Too me personally, its just not worth the risk - to you perhaps it is
. Ultimately as many people on this thread have pointed out, you are the one who has to decide; it is after all your tank and your money.
 

gooch

Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
http:///forum/post/2934223
Even though I used it before I will try and help with this..
Sometimes it wont be able to buffer the water as "LS" will(neither does the Black LS though)
It can contain high ammounts of Silica which can help algae grow in tremendous ammounts.
If you have burrowing fish, when it gets wet it can compact down and be hard as a rock making it harder for them to dig down into it... and can be rather dusty compared to other types of sands
thank you, does it vary from brand to brand? In this case, Pavestone: High Desert White?
What is considered a high amount of silica? When it says it may contain trace amounts of silica is that considered a high amount?
If pre-soaked prior to adding to the tank would that eliminate most or all of the dusty issues?
 

mantisman51

Active Member
People passing personal experience as scientific fact. Sand being one of them. Skimmers being the other. Self-appointed experts telling people to "find another hobby" because they don't agree with them.
 

gooch

Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2934228
Easy SnakeBlitz - from his perspective, he's asking a valid question.
Gooch, once again, you are looking for a simple "wrong or right" when again, there is no "wrong or right" answer. As I stated - I've read about and actually know people who have used the play sand and have had no issues - I've also read about and know people who tried it and it failed miserably. Perhaps as you said, the difference is in the "vinegar test". However, there is also a possibility of other factors - absorption or leeching of materials for instance - that aren't necessarily looked out or controlled in bagging play sand, but would be in the bagging of sand for live aquariums (at least we hope). Again, based on speculation - like you, I often look for ways to make savings - some I take, some I choose not to. To me personally, if I were spending the $5,000 to $6,000 dollars its going to take to set up that big tank right, spending a couple hundred on sand wouldn't be an issue - it would simply be something I had factored in to make sure I did it right. How are you going to feel after you spent $6,000 on a tank set-up if (not saying it will) it crashes because of the sand, but you saved a few hundred dollars? Too me personally, its just not worth the risk - to you perhaps it is
. Ultimately as many people on this thread have pointed out, you are the one who has to decide; it is after all your tank and your money.

I have used these forums to help a lot with my purchases, and actually it was where I heard about using playsand in the first place. There have been situations like with a RODI system that originally I was wondering what were the pro's and con's and by reading several posts including the archived debate of ro water vs tap water I deemed the evidence and the argument to be well onto the RODI side and I purchased a unit because of that.
That might seem a no brainer to most people but I like a reason to spend the money and I want to know that what I am spending it on will actually be worth the investment.
The sand argument issue was one that left me leaning towards the calcium playsand because I just didnt see much evidence leaning towards a dominance of aragonite sand. If I did see convincing arguments I would most assuredly change my position.
The sand is a substantial amount of money to me so peace of mind isnt really enough of a selling point to get to me to pony up for the expensive stuff.
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/2933669
That there are absolute right and wrong answers.

Originally Posted by ReiferMadness
http:///forum/post/2933788
I agree with one of the posts, "That there are absolute right and wrong answers."

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang

http:///forum/post/2934228
Easy SnakeBlitz - from his perspective, he's asking a valid question.
Gooch, once again, you are looking for a simple "wrong or right" when again, there is no "wrong or right" answer.
So there are always right or wrong answers...but not always wrong or right answers.
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Here is another low cost option:
FInd and join a Local Reef Club.. See if there is anyone taking their tank down and ask if you can buy the sand from the tank.. If it has been setup a little while it will be true live sand and more than likely cheaper then the crap in a bag...
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2934168
gooch, Certain types of sand are bad, certain types of sand are good. If it passes a vinegar test, it should be good. Why try to save $50 on sand for a 75g tank when one fish often costs just as much? Take your time, do it right and buy sand that is already deemed usable for the aquarium trade.
Now that is another example of misinformation
No matter what sand you use it WILL NOT TASTE GOOD WITH VINIGER
 
U

usirchchris

Guest
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/2934248
So there are always right or wrong answers...but not always wrong or right answers.

There are absolute right and wrong answers was my answer to the question "What do you think is the most inaccuate information new hobbyists are reading on the boards?". The post below mine that you quoted was just agreeing with me that there really is very little black and white in this hobby. Too many variables to come up with absolutes.
 

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2933663
Ok I must say I am not a very big supporter of the threads that ask every members opinion. I do think in this case it may be benefical to new hobbyists. My question to the members is this.
What do you think is the most inaccuate information new hobbyists are reading on the boards?
The information that is claimed to be absolute.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
http:///forum/post/2934249
Here is another low cost option:
FInd and join a Local Reef Club.. See if there is anyone taking their tank down and ask if you can buy the sand from the tank.. If it has been setup a little while it will be true live sand and more than likely cheaper then the crap in a bag...
Well I am sure if you were to brake down your tank the person buying the sand would find it full of decomposing human organs.( live is subjective in this case) Judging from your not to subliminal avatar
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2934295
Well I am sure if you were to brake down your tank the person buying the sand would find it full decomposing human organs.( live is subjective in this case) Judging from your not to subliminal avatar
Absolute CRAZY talk.. There is no telling what in the hell is in my sand.. Ive used the same sand for the past 4 years or so.. Through 3 upgrades and 1 downgrade... even gave away 150lbs of it...I have all kinds of nasty critter in there prolly...
You dont like my avatar??
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
http:///forum/post/2934298
Absolute CRAZY talk.. There is no telling what in the hell is in my sand.. Ive used the same sand for the past 4 years or so.. Through 3 upgrades and 1 downgrade... even gave away 150lbs of it...I have all kinds of nasty critter in there prolly...
You dont like my avatar??


You dont like my avatar??
I love your avatar its like a tease of what your CUC might find for dinner
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2934313
I love your avatar its like a tease of what your CUC might find for dinner
Ahhhh, I finally have a CUC.. Took me taking down one tank and 86ing some rude fish to get one but I finally did.. Around 200 Nass snails 2 emerald crabs and around 20 blue legs.. Need a few more things but its getting there..
Hows everything going wildman?
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
http:///forum/post/2934316
Ahhhh, I finally have a CUC.. Took me taking down one tank and 86ing some rude fish to get one but I finally did.. Around 200 Nass snails 2 emerald crabs and around 20 blue legs.. Need a few more things but its getting there..
Hows everything going wildman?
Aaaah! see there is another one of those darn misconceptions commonly stated as fact on the boards - All hermits are snail killers!
Originally Posted by Gooch

http:///forum/post/2934247
The sand argument issue was one that left me leaning towards the calcium playsand because I just didnt see much evidence leaning towards a dominance of aragonite sand. If I did see convincing arguments I would most assuredly change my position.
The sand is a substantial amount of money to me so peace of mind isnt really enough of a selling point to get to me to pony up for the expensive stuff.
There you go - thats what we call "making an informed intelligent decision." You have considered the available information, weighed the pros and cons, and determined the route you will take based on that - you didn't simply listen when someone said; "Oh playsand thats bad." IME in this hobby, if you have the ability to make informed intelligent decisions, you will go far. There is nothing wrong with questioning information - just realize that the boards are a source for the free exchange of opinions and information - some good, some bad, some right and some wrong - and you are good to go.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2934270
Now that is another example of misinformation
No matter what sand you use it WILL NOT TASTE GOOD WITH VINIGER

alright, alright, alright. I didn't want to go into the details because he was dead set on the play sand anyway. If it passes the vinegar test, it has some calcium in it. That does not mean that there aren't other substances in the water which will be harmful to "live aquariums." Just because it passes the vinegar test doesn't mean that it is 100% good.
Or, substances that will create large diatom blooms that will never go away...
Play sand is also much more finer grained then live sand or aragonite. This means that it will compact, almost becoming "cement like." It doesn't allow for some fish to dig holes, it doesn't allow for many microfauna to dig into it, and it does not allow (in my personal opinion) a good enough condition for bacteria to colonize. Also, it is stirred up way too easily, so if you have too much flow, you will constantly have a sand storm, or you water will never be completely clear of a white haze.
It's ultimately your choice to use it or not. I have used it on a couple of systems and it utterly failed. I have had a couple of people use it for their tanks, and it completely failed as well. I have heard of success stories, but they are far and few between.
Besides, I thought the original company of Southdown Play Sand went out of business and you couldn't find it anymore?
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2934358
Aaaah! see there is another one of those darn misconceptions commonly stated as fact on the boards - All hermits are snail killers!
They are not all snail killer but are oppertunistic feeds at will eat snails if it comes down to it..But then again most things will eat snails if they are hungry enough.. Including Bear Grylls
 
U

usirchchris

Guest
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2934358
Aaaah! see there is another one of those darn misconceptions commonly stated as fact on the boards - All hermits are snail killers!
It's a fact in my tanks...murderers those hermits are
. Not saying in everyone's tank, but IME. I put in a large strawberry hermit with my stars and stripes and niger...the thing attacks my almost 1' long stars and stripes
. Must say though I am impressed with it's cleaning skills, that crab is all over the place.
 
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