Yellow Tang in a 55.......

[team2jndd]

the minimum tank size is derived based upon the length and activeness of the fish. The tangs grow to approx. 10 inches. A 12 inch wide tank is not large enough for that fish to be able to turn around. Not to mention the fact that everytime a fish that swims all the time swims a few times its body length will have to turn around. The stress you place on that fish may not kill it but it will indeffinately decrease its lifespan. I had a purple in my 60 and was supposed to give it to my brother when he got his 125 up. He took too long so i gave it to somebody on this site with a large tank. No matter how much you feed these fish they will NEVER grow fully in that size tank. Without the proper exercise and freedom they will never mature properly and will die at a far younger age than they would in an appropriate aquarium. Needless to say nobody can recreate the ocean. Even a hermit crab would be better off in the ocean so if you want to throw that arguement as your defense than I suggest you leave the hobby. I respect everyone's opinion on this topic and am impressed with the maturity level thus far. However, the responsibility is on us to provide adequate homes for these fish and just because you can do it your way does not mean you are doing it the right way.

 

[wattsupdoc]

Well here's my take on it. Most fish eat all day long in the wild. Even those that eat large meals all at once within a period of time throughout the day if given an oportunity to have another meal will sieze the opportunity. We cannot feed our fish that way in the home aquarium. Oh sure there are a few of us who feed twice a day and fight the trates. Most of us feed only what the fish will consume in 5 minutes or so, once a day. Some even only every other day. Some could say thats thats cruel. So if we say that keeping a fish in a setup that seems to be too small for it is making that animal unhappy, then we should also consider feeding more like they would in the wild. But we dont. It's the knee jerk reaction to say "it's just not right'. We keep alls sorts of fish and inverts in our displays that cannot compare to the size of the ocean. That yellow tang that is in the 55 may have been eaten by another animal if it were left in the wild, the very next day. We just dont know. It's life has been prolonged my the aqaurist who purchased it and is now tending for it's needs. So if you say"you cant keep that because its too small of a tank". Then maybe none of us should keep fish because we dont feed them like they want to be feed, and thats not the ocean their in! They cant be happy.
Dont have any tangs or ever had any.
JMO

 

[tazsbaby99]

The best tank for a yt or any other sw fish for that matter is the ocean...BUT we put our happiness first and pay good money to have these wonderful creatures in our tanks. So i dont think its right for all these people to point the finger and call us cruel for haveing yt in a 55 g when in all reality (they have fish that arent happy)...the fishies happiest place is the ocean where it came from.
and just a food for thought...when u point the finger at someone...you got three pointing back at you.

 

[ophiura]

IMO, this is a common argument that avoids the issue.
Again, just continuing the discussion .............
Yes, the ocean is the ideal place for these fish and yes we remove them. Does that mean we are somehow no longer obligated to provide a minimum level of care for them?
A horse is "happy" on the open plains (perhaps we should say its natural habitat is this), but they can be easily kept healthy in a smaller enclosure. Make it too small, and the ASPCA will be knocking on your door and hauling you away.
This same logic, IMO, does apply to fish though they don't get the same level of concern.
IMO, hobbyists are obligated BECAUSE these animals are harvested from the ocean to provide minimum levels of care for them, to the best of our abilities. And that means having the self control, IMO, to say that you don't have the right size tank and should not keep the fish. Or at the very least saying (again, I am not the tang police) that I can keep this fish in this size tank for "X" period of time, and then have the self control to actually find it a different home.
Also, once again I think we need to leave out this human emotion of "happiness" which is impossible to relate to fish. We must look at fish HEALTH and behavior, not happiness. And people commonly mistake totally aberrant fish behavior for "happiness."
I don't think the "its not in the ocean" argument really relieves us of responsibility. JMO tho

 

[hardcrab67]

Well I didn't know that humans cornered the aspect of emotions. When I return, my dog is "happy" to see me. Along with alot of other animals I have owned, have showed emotion, whether good or bad. A bird will take a plug out of you, until he learns he can trust you(another emotion). And as far as "minimum level of care" I thought the whole idea was to provide "maximum level of care" for anything we take responsibilty for, whether its your Grandma or a fish, devotion(another emotion not only in humans) should be the same. JMO I would use one of the smiles here, but yet another(human) emotion! So why did they include that smiling fish anyway?

 

[ophiura]

I am all for providing the "maximum level of care" personally. But I think we are at the very least obligated to provide the minimum level of, shall I say, quality care. To some degree this may be a semantic argument and we are on the same page. I think it would be great to put a naso tang in a 40,000g tank, which would be on the verge (ourside of the ocean) of the "maximum level of care." On practical terms, can they be sustained healthfully in a smaller, "minimum" system? Yes. Probably around 300g or so I would say. IMO, a naso in something like a 55g or 75g does not meet the "minimum" level of care that I feel we are obligated to provide. Obviously, this is a slippery slope and not always easy to apply, but I'll leave in in the realm of generality and hope people can understand.
I care for my parents, and the would love to live in a resort in either San Diego or Saint Martin, but will settle for a condo in Galveston. Maximum level of care...versus practical level of care (though I would happily tend to them in either San Diego, or Saint Martin...they are surviving quite well in Galveston).

Visiting San Diego though tomorrow....but certainly not stuck away in a room with no AC and no way to get appropriate care.
I don't quite understand though why are you are quoting me to some extent? From the sound of it, we are somewhat on the same page, though I do not assign "emotions" to fish because it is not my training to do so. If you wish to, then that is fine, but you won't win me over

. Note the smilie, because I am human and have human emotions. My current impression of your post is that its tone is a bit unfriendly at the least :notsure: and that is not my intent at all. We are open to debate without demeaning each others perspective so if you took that from my post, well nothing personal was intended. Otherwise, I do believe we have a certain responsibility to care for these animals, and that may mean not keeping them in 55g tanks.
I'm not sure what the issue is. If you want to assign emotions, then so be it, but what is a "happy" fish then? I think fish health is overall a better indicator, because it is easier to measure. There are a lot of people who keep fish in inappropriate tanks, IMO, for years because they have convinced themselves the fish is "happy" though I am not sure what the signs are, all the while overlooking or ignoring clear signs that the fish is not in prime health.
The smiling fish is included because it is cute. :happyfish very cute

But, like the mouth of a dolpin, it may be nothing more than basic morphology and not the "happy dolphin" that we often think of.

 

[wattsupdoc]

I certainly hope I didnt come across as rude. I dont take either side here, but do enjoy stimulating conversation.

I think we often confuse happy with healthy. Just because something or someone is happy doesnt make them healthy and vise versa. Just because you provide a 300 gallon tank for a single fish and give it all the best care in the world doesn't mean its happy. Sometimes when I go by my tank and a fish swims up to GREAT me I wonder..Is he wanting to see me, bite me or just want some food. Probably the food. We dont know if a fish has emotions. Period. You have to have emotions to be happy. But we can tell if its healthy. OPHIE

I think if you're parents were cooped up they would show signs of being unhealthy.. Right? If a fish looks healthy and acts healthy we should say its OK were its at.

 

[mryoung7]

i'm not going to scold someone else for doing it but i personally would never put a yt in a 55. great thread. ***)

 

[reef diver]

Hmm interesting debte. I have my yellow tang, I plan to house himwith a banded longfin basslet, a pair of clowns, a diamond goby, clown goby, and many corals. HE seems healthy, and active. However I planned for him and left a wide open space in the tank. He had HLLE when I bought him, he was also slightly thin. He is bulking up to his appropriate size, and the hlle is receding. He is 4 inches seems fine tome in my 55 gal

 

[drewsta]

I have kept quiet but here IMO...
It all boils down to we as humans think of ourselves as superior to the other forms of life on the planet. We LOVE to be in control. We will never know if animals are happy in our care however if we choose to, we should absolutely provide the best care possable for the animal, well what does that mean. To me it means to the best of ones ability if a person so chooses to keep a YT in a 55 gallon tank and they feel that is sufficient then so be it and the same otherwise if you feel a tang shouldn't be in anything less then a 150 gallon tank that is your perogative. I say care for Yourself, Family, Friends, Pets to the best of your ability and you will lead a happy and fulfilling life! just my $.02

 

[reef diver]

To me it means to the best of ones ability if a person so chooses to keep a YT in a 55 gallon tank and they feel that is sufficient then so be it and the same otherwise if you feel a tang shouldn't be in anything less then a 150 gallon tank that is your perogative. I say care for Yourself, Family, Friends, Pets to the best of your ability and you will lead a happy and fulfilling life!
I like that quote.

 

[cjml]

Originally Posted by hardcrab67
Man, oh man, I told my wife the tang police were coming. She better hurry up and order my, oops I mean our 125g

I have a sailfin in my 55 and I've been around animals my whole life, especially the exotic birds and fish. Thats why I finally took the SW plunge because IMO there is nothing more exotic than these creatures. Now the sailfin, he can talk, not in words, but in action. He swims gracefully back and forth through the openings in the rocks, all around the tank, stops, looks at me, fans his fins. Any animal I've seen abused or unhappy surely didn't act like this. My 60lbs of rock goes from one end to the other and is layered to about half the total depth of the tank. He's only 4" but I rearrange the rock when I knew he was coming and planned his arrival. I know they can get over a foot long. I plan to upgrade before he outgrows his swimming area. So with that said, ya you can put one in there, but by himself you better be around all day to chat with him or he is going to be unhappy. Just think if you didn't have anybody to interact with in life, that would @#$%. Why do you think I talk to you guys

Great post!! I have happy tangs too in my 150-they are calm & they interactive with me and they swim peacefully around. They eat out of my hand. I love my fish and I really think they know it. So one small tang in a healthy 55 gal should be ok....better then the lfs with no rock or sand or hiding places or food-- (they tend to feed very little) and there are alot of other little fish that would also do well in a 55 gal -better then starving & dying in our lfs.

 

[tx reef]

Great stuff folks.
I am sure that some are still leary of posting their experience on this matter for fear of getting flamed.
Go ahead and post. There will be no flaming (as you can see), only "heated" discussion.
Ophiura, I agree with you. We should not associate human emotions with fish.
If a fish is doing well, then it is healthy, not "happy".

 

[hardcrab67]

Originally Posted by TX Reef
Good point.
Yes, it is

 

[hardcrab67]

Originally Posted by TuggLife2
Good stuff guys.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that a fish like a tang is use to swimming in the open ocean, correct? Is keeping this fish in a tank that's maybe a foot bigger than another tank really going to make that big a difference in the scheme of things?

 

[dogstar]

So far as far as the original question, out of all these post and time theres only been ..
2 differnt people say 1 YT for 3 years....
1 scopas for 4 years ...
1 PB for 1.5 years....
1 YT " for a long time ".......
"" So is there anything that can be concluded from these results so far....? ""
I have had my 3 Yellows for 5 years but they have never been in a tank smaller than a 120g so I cant give you any personal story about one in a 55g.

 

[tx reef]

Bump.....

 

[sommergurl]

I have a 65 gal reef tank with two tangs, one Naso and one Achilles. The Naso was going to be the only guy in there until I saw the Achilles at the LFS looking a few days from dead..Yeah, I bought it and they have been happy little campers for over a year. They haven't tried committing suicide by jumping out so I chose to believe they are happy - at least they are not a link on the food chain and liable to be devoured as they would be in the ocean. I feed them twice a day --frozen brine in the AM and veggie flakes or krill in the PM. Frequent water changes and a UV light have contributed I believe to not having any ick issues. If a fish could look "fat" my Naso is fat. He has not got any longer, probably due to the tank size, but he sure looks hefty. We change up the rockwork every couple of weeks and they dive in and out amongst the rocks. Have to say they have thier own personalities, the Achilles will swim corckscrews around him - pretty wierd and he just kinda stops and lets her do it then when his fin stands up, btw he looks like Elvis when he does that, she stops immediately and dives tothe bottom. Guess she likes to push his buttons.

 

[grilai]

I had a yellow tang in a 55 gls tank; for almost 4 years with a maroon clown, they get along very good. I transferred everything to a new 80 gls corner tank about two months ago. I think the YT is "happy"

. At list nemo has not convinced him to jump to my toilet trying to go back to the ocean

he was probably 2 1/2" when i bought him, now he is about 4". I will tell you that I neglect my tank for a couple of months and i got ich witch I solved getting a fresh water bath and getting my tank back to normal.

 

[hot883]

This is by far the "Best thread" on the subject. Thanks to all that have contributed. Here's my input:
It's always the size of the tank that comes into play. I have 5 fish that will not leave 1/2 of the tank, they are always on one side. I have fish that only stay in certain areas. The tangs that I do have do not EVER swim back and forth the length of the RECOMMENDED MINIMUM 6 feet. They stay in the same little area, occasionally swim the length and then back to their spot. All healthy and eat like pigs. Don't know if they are happy or not, I flunked fish phsycology(sp) 101 and do not communicate with them well.
Don't get me started on Morish Idols either.