You should be ashamed of youself

[sly]

This is really sad... I mean really sad... There are literally hundreds of threads where people have been improperly told to switch to sand because their crushed coral beds are "nitrate factories". Rather than understand the science, most people are simply relying on heresay and prejudice. THIS SHOULD NOT BE... IN A SELF HELP FORUM FOR NEW HOBBYISTS!!
This is not meant to be a thread stating that one is better than the other... it isn't. But I will say this... Many of you have repeatedly given BAD ADVICE which has cost the new hobbyists thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of wasted time. Instead of telling them how to do it right you simply tell them to get rid of it because "it's not how your tank is set up" or "it's not how you were told to do it". If anyone is wondering why I'm the crushed coral nazi, here's why. The pics speak loud for themselves. You should be ashamed!

 

[kidwicked]

o rly?

 

[psycho]

r u serious??? ahhhhh....... ALL THE DRAMA whats up your ---?

 

[bacia]

Sly your point would be better received if instead of just ranting and raving you would explain your point of view. What is the science behind your opinion? I have a plenum with a DSB and a bit of crushed coral sprinkled on top because I like the look and it works the best for me.

 

[ryanhayes9]

oh get over it. were stating our opinions and they dont have to take or ADVICE!!!!

 

[mandarin w]

From what I see hear a lot of times they don't take the advice unless it is the advice they want to hear.
Can I put a yellow tang in my 30 gal.
#1 no
#2 no
#3 no
#4 I don't see why not, I see them in 30 gals all the time at the fish store
Oh great, thanks for letting me know that it would be ok.
Two months later, Why is my yellow tang sick? Well maybe it is because you have him in a 30 gal tank.
But so and so said it should be ok, even though 15 other people say no.
But "SLY" you are missing the whole point here. 90 percent of the people asking questions on this site are very new to this hobby. Some one with experience may be able to use CC successfully. But a newbie doesn't come close to haveing the experience to handle taking care of crush coral. So it is better to just have them use sand. and much safer for the fish. That is a whole nother ballgame, and they have enough to figure out and keep track of as it is.

 

[tx reef]

:notsure:

***)

 

[hot883]

I have NEVER seen a CC bed that looks good after several months. Not advised for SAND sifting botton dwellers and is a Nitrate trap.
I bet you will come back with "I vacumn", great; I don't. I like the beneficial critters in my sand that would get sucked out by vacumning.
Thanks for your wasted rant.

 

[sly]

No I will not get over it. I'm serious. There is WAY too much misinformation being spread here and always has been. There are thread after thread telling people how to keep different systems properly but for some reason science gets thrown out the window when it comes to what choice of substrate to use. It's not because I feel that CC is better and that all people who use sand should die...

But rather than tell someone the benefits and consequences of each system, people here for the most part just say "get rid of it!! It's easier to keep sand". This is unfair to the new hobbyist who just spent $800 on their new tank and now you are telling them to take it apart and replace the substrate and cycle the tank all over again. It's costing people money and is wasting time while endangering their livestock during these "conversions".
There are people who run Berlin systems while others try for the cleanest water possible... Each method has advantages and disadvantages. I don't see the same reaction from people who choose to use one method or the other... Instead people intelligently discuss how to implement each method to gain the desired results. This isn't so when it comes to what substrate people use... You are wasting their time and further frustrating them by giving them bad advice. There are many people who post here who had problems with their tank and they were told that it's because they had CC and they should switch it to sand. They do so believing that it was the problem with their tank only to find a huge outbreak overruns their tank and they're back to where they started from. Now they are frustrated having spent all the money and time on the conversion and their tank looks horrible... This is because over and over the real problem was never addressed and people "assumed" that since CC was in the tank then it must have been the problem. I've seen people get out of the hobby completely because of frustrations like this. Is this right to treat people this way? Shouldn't you instead try to help them out with what they have so that they can enjoy their tanks with the rest of us instead of chasing one wild goose after another? This is not a wasted rant... It's one that's long overdue for this site.

 

[imurnamine]

Crushed Coral V.S. Live Sand... It's a preference.
I happen to have both in mine.

 

[patandlace]

Crushed coral sucks.

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by ImUrNamine
Crushed Coral V.S. Live Sand... It's a preference.
I happen to have both in mine.
Exactly... That's the point I'm trying to make. There are ways to do each... :happyfish

 

[ginarox]

sly i respect in what you are doing, thank you and have a great day.

 

[drewissett]

???
I see both sides of an issue pretty well represented on this forum, and as a "newbie" have probably saved hundreds of dollars by taking some of this advice.
Additionally you can make sand and CC both work in a tank. But WHY suggest the more difficult, dirty, and high maitenance, to a begginner?
LOL Manderin W, great point!!!

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by drewissett
But WHY suggest the more difficult, dirty, and high maitenance, to a begginner?
It's not more difficult, dirty or any higher maintenance when you set it up properly. It's not a "ditrius trap" or a "nitrate factory" either... Most of the people who started out with CC had substrates that were 3 or more inches deep. Instead of telling them how to set it up properly, they were told to scrap everything and switch to sand. That's fine if sand is what they would rather have... but many times this is not the case. They take the advice blindly and simply set up their tank the way you have yours rather than learn the differences and decide for themselves. There is way too much misinformation being spread and IMO it exploits the new hobbyist.

 

[imurnamine]

I kind of have the same opinion as Sly.
I have CC in my sandbed, mixed with live sand.
I also run a Penguin Bio-Wheel on my 37 gallon.
I have NEVER had a problem with it. EVER.
People tell me, ''Oh no, don't use that, it's a NITRATE FACTORY!!

''
How odd. My tank has always had perfect levels... *Shrug*
I don't listen to heresay.

 

[coachklm]

so sly...
"This argument has been had a thousand times. CC is not a nitrate factory... CC does not trap ditrius when properly maintained..".
you say properly maintaned but you never told the person how to properly maintain a CC bed.
we can sit and rant all day but lets get to business and explain how to maintain both types or all three types of bedded tanks so nitrates dont become a problem... if we let them decide (based on facts instead of heresay) they will feel better about their decision and have less regrets, and only themselves to blame.

 

[ophiura]

IMO, this thread does nothing but demonstrate what you are complaining about.
This is JMO, but just to let you know -
You've told people to be ashamed of their advice when many DO explain and many DO try and help. It may not be "USE CRUSHED CORAL!!!!!" but people are entitled to their opinions. You've lumped everyone together it seems. You have EVERY right to jump in on those Crushed Coral threads and speak your mind. No one is stopping you, and if you can make your point, then cheers, good job.
Or maybe instead you should have given a logical comparison of why you like one over the other so it could be referenced by people, but instead you've told us all to be ashamed (because it has worked for you - it didn't, BTW, work for me).
I understand your point, BTW, because I have the same issue with wet/dry threads being a nitrate factor which is also false information. I understand the INTENSE FRUSTRATION that can be rolled up in a single question. But I jump into that thread and express my disagreement and why. It is also due to improper maintenance (lots of goo getting stuck in the bioballs, lack of cleaning).
So to play devil's advocate

, why are you saying to use ANY substrate, I hear the bare bottom people asking?
There are many successful ways to run a tank, and people come here to share those opinions. People have to choose what they may, people have to make decisions. People may hear all sides, or they may not. And I think people are smart enough to look at a one line "oh that's bad stuff" versus a longer thought out summary of the pros and cons and take each for what they are worth. I think that all of us need to understand that we do things that may work for us, but have not seemed to work for the majority in general. We speak a lot in generalizations for sure...but it doesn't mean that advice is wrong or "heresay."
But I don't think this post has helped. Personally, it demonstrates EXACTLY what you are complaining about. (And has kind of ticked me off to be honest!). I don't think that was your intent at all, nor is it mine to flame you or anything. But just to let you know, it can be taken exactly the way you are trying to speak out against...and so it doesn't help people, just as you are saying.

**Edit: I just read an thread from yesterday where you had an opportunity to explain the proper maintenance of crushed coral, but didn't, just said the opposite of many others ("It does not cause nitrate problems")- many others in the thread, BTW, did try to address possible issues also contributing to nitrate problems, including getting rid of the CC, but they should be ashamed?? What about your missed opportunity??

Yeah, I am getting ticked off

I need to find a tang in a 30g thread to calm down....LOL**

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by Sly
It's not more difficult, dirty or any higher maintenance when you set it up properly. It's not a "ditrius trap" or a "nitrate factory" either... Most of the people who started out with CC had substrates that were 3 or more inches deep. Instead of telling them how to set it up properly, they were told to scrap everything and switch to sand. That's fine if sand is what they would rather have... but many times this is not the case. They take the advice blindly and simply set up their tank the way you have yours rather than learn the differences and decide for themselves. There is way too much misinformation being spread and IMO it exploits the new hobbyist.

GET OVER IT
Sand out weighs CC by far
CC cuts starfish and snails because of rough edges , for one .... I dont even need to state the rest because you allready have .... shouldnt this be in
The Aquarium????

 

[oceanists]

good morning ophiura