You should be ashamed of youself

[petieaztec]

I like the look of live sand....... but don't know much on crushed coral?? It reminds me of florida and the powder white beaches..... ahhh memories. i would like a well presented paper on crushed coral verses live sand please. no rambling

. then we will put this post to rest. ***)

 

[sly]

I made no judgements based upon the choice of substrate people choose to use. I have not demonstrated what I am ranting about... you have not understood the thread. I have posted 5 threads in the past with DETAILED explanations of how to use CC for people who choose to use it and I have outlined logical reasons why it is both good and bad. The first thread I made about how to use CC was threatened to be locked by a moderator!!! Now who's biased?!! There was no flaming involved but it did not fit the norm of this forum and so it was quickly dismissed. The moderators are involved in this as well. I have read stickys posted by them stating how to switch over from one to the other and it was filled with misinformation on reasons to do so.
Everytime I try to tell people how to make the best of their CC substrate I get flamed for it. This is not an unreasonable rant. There is a HUGE bias on this forum. I have said it over and over... "I couldn't care less what substrate people use". What I do care about is the time and money that people are wasting fixing a problem that isn't really a problem.
I've used sand myself as well as a barebottom... I like each method... However that is not what this is about. I'll say it again... Telling someone they have screwed up because they went with CC is not a service; it is a disservice. You are costing them money and time while giveing them further frustration by not being able to fix their problems... It is unfair to the new hobbyist who through frustration leaves the hobby all together rather than learn how to fix his costly mistakes.

 

[psycho]

well.....we don't choose to use it thanks for your info. though
Sand is #1 :cheer: goooooo Sand! sorry I just had too! LMAO!

 

[ophiura]

I see no issues with a "proper use of crushed coral" thread. I will search for it. I see no reasons that a logical comparison or "how to" would be locked due simply to the topic.
If there is some sort of "conspiracy" on this board that the moderators are part of against crushed coral, I am not aware of it. Now on a personal note we may not prefer that method and so may speak against it. But why would several of us jump onto "wet dry filters are nitrate factory" threads to make the same point you make about crushed coral? It is a very similar idea.
All I can ask is that if you post a reasonable reply (eg NOT telling everyone they should be "ashamed" about their advice) about using crushed coral and feel you are flamed for it or attacked, then PLEASE report it using the report post function. You are entitled to your opinions which is what this board is about

 

[sly]

Here's a locked thread for you... https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...=127216&page=2
Anyway I tried. It started out as a nice discussion but quickly deteriorated...

 

[ophiura]

Yes, that thread did break many rules and I am surprised it is still there.
There were several links that are not allowed.
There was escalation, name calling, etc. A word in the future, if someone disagrees, even if they are rude, don't escalate it. There were several opportunities there just to "let it go" when instead they were answered in a bit too personal ways. You always have the option to not escalate a post like that. You can't control what someone else will do, but NEVER turn it personal into a "you are ignorant, stupid, don't read" etc etc. That was a major issue in that thread, and it should have been locked SOONER than it was. There was definite flaming in that thread, several times when statements about "the post" were turned into personal comments.
Early on, clearly there was no issue, as Bang Guy commented first. If there was some conspiracy by the mods against crushed coral, it wouldn't have made it that far. Don't confuse our need to enforce the board rules, with comments on good practices. But we are also entitled in general to provide our opinions, which should not be confused with the opinions of SWF.

 

[gen1dustin]

Sand is most definately better than crushed coral, looks & is better on some fish & inverts. I do think that it is over done sometimes when people tell someone to immediately change it out after they just finished setting their tank up & are all pumped about it. It isn't something that you would need to totally freak about right away.

 

[gen1dustin]

Originally Posted by Sly
Telling someone they have screwed up because they went with CC is not a service; it is a disservice. You are costing them money and time while giveing them further frustration by not being able to fix their problems... It is unfair to the new hobbyist who through frustration leaves the hobby all together rather than learn how to fix his costly mistakes.
I agree there.

 

[sly]

Anyway my point has been made. Feel free to let this thread die.

 

[alyssia]

I would like to point out that the thread started by myself in April of 2006 titled "red general star and CC star" has no reference to crushed coral whatsoever. Did you read these before you posted them?

 

[hatessushi]

Sly, you mentioned that no one is talking about the science of using crushed coral. I still have not heard any scientific facts from you, just ranting and raving which is not very becoming of anyone especialy if you want people to listen. Please explain to me scientifically how my sand sifting goby will sift CC? I guess they can but I haven't seen it. When I post MY opinion for a person to use sand instead of cc that is my opinion. If you don't like it then to bad. You were rude in your post, but so bi it. You are free to be whatever you want Mr. Scientific ***)

 

[stanlalee]

hey well on my behalf I've always argued in those threads people are too quick to point to crush coral (evidence being just as many people with sand have high nitrates and when there is no crush coral in the equation they are given a bunch of different suggestions. why arent they given these suggestions when they have crush coral without immediately telling people its the crush coral).
As a person who's had crush coral forever and even when I had it with an underground filter in which I never serviced or did vacuuming and had no live rock or skimmer I was able to keep my nitrates below 40ppm with just biweekly water changes. Now with all the crap I didn't know about then (live rock, skimmer, macro fuge) I have no problems what so ever keeping nitrates and phospates at zero with only water changes and siphon vacuuming once every 3wks. And even if I skip both for twice the interval I STILL test zero. and I feed twice a day plus and algae sheet for one fish. have a very modest clean up crew (2 astrea snails, 5-6 hermits, 1 fire shrimp).
I've also stated that when suggested to change to sand because their levels are high the average person does massive water changes and elbow grease to get nitrates down and then much better routine maintenence to keep them in check. If that person did the same thing with CC (a complete substrate change i.e. removal of everything that has settled to the bottom, new clean substrate, massive and frequent water changes plus better future maintenence) in all likelyness they would have had the same results with CC but then they come back and say I changed to sand and now my tank is perfect with disregard to everything else they did to get it and keep it there.
Now I dont think crush coral is better because it isn't but its not evil either and if you pile your tank to the top with liverock and make a deep crush coral bed knowing you wont be able to vacuum but 2% of your substrate to begin with you got the problems you deserved. I can only reach perhaps 30% of my substrate for vacuuming and still have never had nitrate problems due to crush coral.

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by alyssia
I would like to point out that the thread started by myself in April of 2006 titled "red general star and CC star" has no reference to crushed coral whatsoever. Did you read these before you posted them?

I would like to point out that the thread started by you is one of the ones that I did not highlight... Did you look at the pictures before you posted this?

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by HatesSushi
Sly, you mentioned that no one is talking about the science of using crushed coral. I still have not heard any scientific facts from you, just ranting and raving which is not very becoming of anyone especialy if you want people to listen. Please explain to me scientifically how my sand sifting goby will sift CC? I guess they can but I haven't seen it. When I post MY opinion for a person to use sand instead of cc that is my opinion. If you don't like it then to bad. You were rude in your post, but so bi it. You are free to be whatever you want Mr. Scientific ***)
That's not the purpose of this thread. I and others on this site have posted MANY scientifically based threads regarding the advantages and disadvantages of different types of substrates. I will not take this one off topic by following your rabbit trail. I have said it 3 times already in THIS THREAD and I'll say it again... my problem is not what kind of substrate someone uses. There are advantages to each... My problem is the misinformation people on this site are spreading because they haven't researched into the matter. I don't know how else I can say it but if you want to hear something I haven't said then go right ahead.

 

[psycho]

***)

 

[fishboy52]

sly has a point......

 

[coachklm]

Originally Posted by Sly
my problem is not what kind of substrate someone uses. There are advantages to each... My problem is the misinformation people on this site are spreading because they haven't researched into the matter.
this "misinformation" is based from experience and people post their opinions on the board based on expeience....it's a viscious cycle.
and as a side note people should take into account more then the substrate as to the cause of the problems. before recomendations occur

p.s. I think that you are educated enough to have thought of a better title. so as not to offend everyone.

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by Sly
I would like to point out that the thread started by you is one of the ones that I did not highlight... Did you look at the pictures before you posted this?

Okay, but why was it even on there then? :notsure:

j/k on the evil smilies....

 

[teen]

Originally Posted by KidWicked
o rly?
dont start with that stupid owl
and if youve spent hundreds of hours switching from cc to ls and reading about it, there is something wrong with you.

 

[petjunkie]

This is almost as bad as the tap water debate!

I feel like I should be shot, I use tap, have crushed coral, and had a Biowheel on my tank for several months until it died. I just switched my ten gallon from CC to sand for a change of pace so now I have CC, thin sand bed, and barebottom tanks. I'm being fair to everyone.