Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

stdreb27

Active Member

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2584396
The u-tube clip is out of context. Hawkins says that in response to a question of whether he could think of any way that an outside being could have placed life on earth. His response is tongue-in-cheek - aliens.
I didn't say Hawkins believed that, but that he said it could be possible. I do know, that 200 or so years from now, they'll look at at the evolution theory
and laugh saying an you believe these morons believed that. Just like we do about geocentricity. Especially with some of the rediculous stretches they make. An adeptation sure ok. But a totally new species? Still waiting for one to pop up.
You question a guy about the theory of evolution, you won't get a serious answer but a fervent attack at everything. (see mr. T's little rubish comment) This is the religion to these folks.
I do love the acceptance of Moore's or Gore's film. But a documentary running contrary to the lefts religious's views gets hammered.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2584795
Doesn't society teach us that? I'd think you'd be smart enough to know that you don't need a religion to be a good person and being a Christian does = being a good person.
What about some of the Eastern Philosophies, many of the asain/indian Americans I know are model citizens, should be also incorporate their belief system into our schools?

NO, society teaches

[hr]

[hr]
--- tapes, Brittany and Jamie Lynn

[hr]
.
As to the Eastern and Asian Indian beliefs, they too boil down to similar rules as in the 10 Commandments.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2584911
NO, society teaches

[hr]

[hr]
--- tapes, Brittany and Jamie Lynn

[hr]
.
As to the Eastern and Asian Indian beliefs, they too boil down to similar rules as in the 10 Commandments.
With an absents of god, there is no incentive to have morals.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2584923

Exactly. Accountability often goes out the window.
I can't believe anyone would think that fear of eternal damnation would be the only reason to be a solid moral person...WOW! I'd love to see some stats comparing atheists and people who are agnostic and compare their crime rates, divorce rates, charitable donations and ect to Christians and I'd be willing to bet that there would be little or no difference. Actually, I might put my money on non Christains being the better citizen.
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2584951
I can't believe anyone would think that fear of eternal damnation would be the only reason to be a solid moral person...WOW! I'd love to see some stats comparing atheists and people who are agnostic and compare their crime rates, divorce rates, charitable donations and ect to Christians and I'd be willing to bet that there would be little or no difference. Actually, I might put my money on non Christains being the better citizen.
How about the stats comparing Christian charities to Atheist charities. I'm sure that info is available.
Google search for Christian charity.
http://www.google.com/search?q=athei...x=&startPage=1
Google rendered approx. 816,000 results
Google search for Atheist charity
http://www.google.com/search?q=athei...x=&startPage=1
Google rendered a whopping 280,000 results.
You decide who is helping others the most.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2584968
How about the stats comparing Christian charities to Atheist charities. I'm sure that info is available.
Compare all of it please, I think you'd be shocked to see that non christains are possibily better citizens as a whole.
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2584973
Compare all of it please, I think you'd be shocked to see that non christains are possibily better citizens as a whole.
That was the very first thing I searched. I think it's your turn.
Prove otherwise.
 

jmick

Active Member
Found this...
A recent study by the Barna Research Group throws extreme doubt on these estimates. Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 1 They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The margin of error is ±2 percentage points. The survey found:
11% of the adult population is currently divorced.
25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime.
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2584990
Found this...
A recent study by the Barna Research Group throws extreme doubt on these estimates. Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 1 They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The margin of error is ±2 percentage points. The survey found:
11% of the adult population is currently divorced.
25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime.
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.
I guess you're right. Divorced Christians are evil. Come on. Are you saying that being a divorcee makes you a bad person. That's just plain wrong.
Got to go. My daughter is taking us out for Chinese!
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2584604
I don't disagree with that. However, Intellient Design is nothing more then means to sneak religion into public schools.
ID is silly. There is nothing wrong with discussing religious topics in school. They just cant be PROMOTING a religion. I see nothing wrong with saying many religions teach we were created by a higher form of life. Then cover evolutionary theory and go on from there.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2584951
I can't believe anyone would think that fear of eternal damnation would be the only reason to be a solid moral person...WOW!
Who in this thread said religious faith is about avoiding eternal damnation? If that is what you think, you're missing the whole point.
 

jmick

Active Member
It took me a minute to find this study, I found it to be rather interesting.
Several weeks ago, a ground-breaking study on religious belief and social well-being was published in the Journal of Religion & Society. Comparing 18 prosperous democracies from the US. to New Zealand, author Gregory S Paul quietly demolished the myth that faith strengthens society.
Drawing on a wide range of studies to cross-match faith – measured by belief in God and acceptance of evolution – with homicide and sexual behavior, Paul found that secular societies have lower rates of violence and teenage pregnancy than societies where many people profess belief in God.
Top of the class, in both atheism and good behavior, come the Japanese. Over eighty percent accept evolution and fewer than ten percent are certain that God exists. Despite its size – over a hundred million people – Japan is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.
Next in line are the Norwegians, British, Germans and Dutch. At least sixty percent accept evolution as a fact and fewer than one in three are convinced that there is a deity. There is little teenage pregnancy , although the Brits, with over 40 pregnancies per 1,000 girls a year, do twice as badly as the others. Homicide rates are also low -- around 1-2 victims per 100,000 people a year.
At the other end of the scale comes America. Over 50 percent of Americans believe in God, and only 40 percent accept some form of evolution (many believe it had a helping hand from the Deity). The US. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan.
All this information points to a strong correlation between faith and antisocial behavior -- a correlation so strong that there is good reason to suppose that religious belief does more harm than good.
At first glance that is a preposterous suggestion, given that religions preach non-violence and sexual restraint. However, close inspection reveals a different story. Faith tends to weaken rather than strengthen people’s ability to participate in society. That makes it less likely they will respect social customs and laws.
All believers learn that God holds them responsible for their actions. So far so good, but for many, belief absolves them of all other responsibilities. Consciously or subconsciously, those who are "born again" or "chosen" have diminished respect for others who do not share their sect or their faith. Convinced that only the Bible offers "truth", they lose their intellectual curiosity and their ability to reason. Their priority becomes not the world they live in but themselves.
The more people prioritize themselves rather than those around them, the weaker society becomes and the greater the likelihood of antisocial behavior. Hence gun laws which encourage Americans to see each other not as fellow human beings who deserve protection, but as potential aggressors who deserve to die. And hence a health care system which looks after the wealthy rather than the ill.
As for sex… Faith encourages ignorance rather than responsible behavior. In other countries, --- education includes contraception, reducing the risk of unwanted pregnancies. Such an approach recognizes that young people have the right to make their own choices and helps them make decisions that benefit society as a whole. In America faith-driven abstinence programs deny them that right -- "As a Christian I will only help you if you do what I say". The result is soaring rates of unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections.
Abstinence programs rest on the same weak intellectual foundation as creationism and intelligent design. Faith discourages unprejudiced analysis. Reasoning is subverted to rationalization that supports rather than questions assumptions. The result is a self-contained system that maintains an internal logic, no matter how absurd to outside observers.
The constitutional wall that theoretically separates church and state is irrelevant. Religion has overwhelmed the nation to permeate all public discussion. Look no further than Gary Bauer, a man who in any other western nation would be dismissed as a fanatic and who in America is interviewed deferentially on prime time television.
Despite all its fine words, religion has brought in its wake little more than violence, prejudice and sexual disease. True morality is found elsewhere. As UK Guardian columnist George Monbiot concluded in his review of Gregory Paul’s study, "if you want people to behave as Christians advocate, you should tell them that God does not exist."
I might express that another way. The flip side of Monbiot's argument is that God would be an atheist,
i think this shatters the thinking that morality is lost when societies become secular.
 

jmick

Active Member
Found this, again there are some interesting stats here.
850,000,000 people around the world are Atheist, Agnostic or Non-Religious. That's more than 1 out of 10 people, making up the 4th largest belief group.
Statistics have shown that the more educated an individual, the less likely they are to be religious or believe in a god. 72% of the National Academy of Sciences members have a 'personal disbelief in god' and another 20% claim 'doubt or agnosticism'.
Less than 1% of the US prison population is 'atheist' vs. about 10% in the general population.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2585037
Who in this thread said religious faith is about avoiding eternal damnation? If that is what you think, you're missing the whole point.
I can show again and again that atheists and those who are agnostic are as solid of citizens or more so then the majority of Christains out there. I can prove you don't need god or church to be a good person, that's really the point here isn't it?
Do you need church to teach your kids right from wrong or do you go to protect their soul from eternal damnation? Or are you like the majority of "Christains" who go just to go...maybe to network, be seen, socialize or just because?
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2585015
ID is silly. There is nothing wrong with discussing religious topics in school. They just cant be PROMOTING a religion. I see nothing wrong with saying many religions teach we were created by a higher form of life. Then cover evolutionary theory and go on from there.
This I agree with. I think kids/young people should be taught about many different cultures, peoples and religions.
 

socal57che

Active Member
I googled your expert and the first link I clicked on contained this...
"This paper has been criticized on statistical grounds, including the seemingly arbitrary sampling of 18 countries out of more than 193 for examination, its indirect measure of "religiosity" (the author's term) and its "chi-by-eye" interpretation of scatterplots rather than quantified measures."
and
"Moreno-Riaño, Smith, and Mach wrote in a published article in the same journal that "[Paul's] methodological problems do not allow for any conclusive statement to be advanced regarding the various hypotheses Paul seeks to demonstrate or falsify."
and
"Gary F. Jensen of Vanderbilt University is one of the scientists who criticizes the methods used by Paul, including that "Paul’s analysis generates the 'desired results'
by selectively choosing the set of social problems to include to highlight the negative consequences of religion"."
Nice credible witness. I rest my case.
 
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