10 Gallon Sump Saga

[mcmasterson]

Yeah his is a tad bigger, maybe 2-3 more gallons. a 10 gallon tank is 20x10x12 so not a huge reduction over his. Plus he had a mag 9 running in that recommendation.
I am going to push ahead and go with what he suggested. If it doesnt work i i guess i can return the overflow back to him as he shouldnt have sold me something that blatantly wont work.
However I cant see a guy who has been in business that long with that many happy customers not know what he is doing.
I will keep ya'll posted
Thanks for all the comments.

 

[btwk12]

why ask for help then?

 

[2quills]

I don't think anybody said that it wouldn't work. The issue with running an overflow and pump that size is way overkill for your size of a system. There are specific reasons for wanting slower flow going through the sump such as skimmer efficiency as well as the efficiency of a refugium if you plan on keeping one. I would sugguest doing some more research on proper flow rates for sumps on your size of a system. And figure out excactly what it is that you're trying to achieve with pushing that much water through the system.

 

[mcmasterson]

Btwk12 I was asking for comments and i appreciate all that were given. I have done considerable research since starting this thread and I considered all the comments above and pushed ahead with original plan as i have read several people recommend much more than 5 x turnover in a sump here and outside of this forum. Some stating 10-20x is normal. With the overflow and return pump i have i will be lucky to see 450 gph turnover which is just under 10x. My objective is to implement a skimmer, refugium and the obvious return.
I will give this a try, worst case is i can adjust the ball valves to reduce flow and come out just fine. Regardless i do appreciate the comments and will post what the results are on my build very soon.
I just appreciate peoples opinions and thought the intent of having a forum was to ask questions and consider responses, but obviously not forced to have to follow them verbatim. So i apologize for wasting anyone's time.
Thanks again

 

[2quills]

Understandable...I have seen much confusion in the past when relating flow rates inside the tank vs flow rates recommended being pushed through sumps and fuges. Best of luck with your system, please come back and let us know how things turn out.

 

[btwk12]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmasterson http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/40#post_3326273
Btwk12 I was asking for comments and i appreciate all that were given. I have done considerable research since starting this thread and I considered all the comments above and pushed ahead with original plan as i have read several people recommend much more than 5 x turnover in a sump here and outside of this forum. Some stating 10-20x is normal. With the overflow and return pump i have i will be lucky to see 450 gph turnover which is just under 10x. My objective is to implement a skimmer, refugium and the obvious return.
I will give this a try, worst case is i can adjust the ball valves to reduce flow and come out just fine. Regardless i do appreciate the comments and will post what the results are on my build very soon.
I just appreciate peoples opinions and thought the intent of having a forum was to ask questions and consider responses, but obviously not forced to have to follow them verbatim. So i apologize for wasting anyone's time.
Thanks again
im sorry i shouldn't have said it like that! these 2 people helping you are very experienced in my opinion, when i ask for help i hope that some of the opinions i get are from them. and no matter how much experience this guy at lifereef has he is still going to stretch the truth and whats good for your tank to make a sell imo! but hopefully it works fine for you the only reason i was reading this is because i am setting up an overflow and they are helping me also. and again im sorry for coming off that way.

 

[acrylic51]

Shortly I'm going to shoot a video for Flower's sump/fuge build.....I might stand corrected, but I won't know till I get everything set the way I want it, and run it.....I'm going to be using a Mag 12 to push the system, so hopefully it will prove that you can push the 450-600gph through the sump. Here sump is a little bigger than what your proposing, but from what I've see with some tweaking to your sump you might be just fine.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmasterson http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/40#post_3326014
Yeah his is a tad bigger, maybe 2-3 more gallons. a 10 gallon tank is 20x10x12 so not a huge reduction over his. Plus he had a mag 9 running in that recommendation.
I am going to push ahead and go with what he suggested. If it doesnt work i i guess i can return the overflow back to him as he shouldnt have sold me something that blatantly wont work.
However I cant see a guy who has been in business that long with that many happy customers not know what he is doing.
I will keep ya'll posted
Thanks for all the comments.

 

[acrylic51]

I've shot the video as I said I would, and it's very possible it could work....I'm curious if you'd share your plans or detail specifics on your sump design.....At this point I think it's very doable, but just your straight standard sump with baffles not a chance....I ran my test run with a Mag12 wide open, which I know is overkill, and even cut back to 1/2" I was picking up minute micro bubbles, that weren't acceptable.....With a bubble tower, I think you could do it!!!!!!

 

[mcmasterson]

btwk no worries man!
I am still in the planning phases but was thinking of splitting the 3 spaces as follows as i have 20" of available space to fit the 3 areas into.
4" of space for the skimmer section with a 9.5" baffle between skimmer/ref
2nd section is the refugium which if i opt for a baffle system at the end of it between ref/return would be looking at 8" of space for refugium.
I am not sure what height to make the baffles though. Perhaps something around 9"? the baffle section should take up a total of 2+/- inches of space for the 3 baffles
The last section would take up the remaining 6" of space for the return area. Keeping the return area high for the pump would be good since evaporation in this little sump will be fairly quick.
What do you think about that design? Not sure if it is clear or not. I can try to draw something up, but need to learn how to post that in here first.
Glad to hear you feel it is feasible!! I purchased all the materials yesterday for the glass baffles and plumping.
Thanks

 

[acrylic51]

I'd love to see some plans... What skimmer are you working around? 4" isn't a whole lot of space...,

 

[2quills]

I like this design, based off of one of Mark from Melev's Reef who has been building custom sumps for a long time and a great source of information. Just throwing it out there but perhaps you can modify it to fit your needs. It's a very popular and proven design.

 

[al&burke]

I hope I am not hijacking again, just read through this post, interesting to say. Everyone speaks of GPH and turnover rate, I agree 5X turn over or higher. I think another important factor is the velocity of the water through the sump and fuge which is direcly related to the area of sump/fuge and GPH. It would be intersting for people with sumps and fuges to list their GPH rating and physical sizes of the sump/fuges. I should start another thread, maybe someone has already done this but it would be intersting to see what the operating paramters are and how it relates to the velocity going through the system..

 

[mcmasterson]

I have the Tunze Nano 9002 skimmer, so 4" I figure should be ample enough space due to the tiny footprint it has and space requirements. Not the most efficient, but a well rated skimmer for a small set up like i am forced to have.
2Quills. It is indeed a great design! Since i am only working with 20" of space i dont think i can afford to give up any real estate for two baffle systems. Maybe just have one between refugium/return? I was thinking of using 1 baffle between the refugium/skimmer as I thought the refugium with it's live rock and other items will help to slow the flow and dissipate the bubbles. Plus it will allow me to save at least another inch of space by avoiding a double baffle technique. By having the return last in line will give micro bubbles more of a chance to leave before hitting the return?
Excuse my tiny sketchup! I wasnt sure what type of program to use to show the sketch. I opted for google sketchup but haven't used it for years and have forgot many things about it. In terms of plumping: the overflow runs 1" tubing down and return is 1/2" tubing back up. I will have a combination of flex and PVC with each line having a ball valve in them.

 

[al&burke]

If you tell me some of the dimension I would be happy to help you out with a quick Autocad drawing. size of tank you are using for your sump & footprint of your skimmer.
Al

 

[acrylic51]

I think it will work.....I think you could push 600gph through there....As Al & Burke pointed out velocity.....I think that is what I seen in Flowers build is I was able to control the velocity of the water with the bubble tower filled with LR, and in turn I was all but able to push roughly 1000gph through it with no micro bubbles.........
You do know that you don't have to utilize the 1" spacing between the baffles? That just seems to be somewhat standard, so you can get your hand in between and clean and such if needed...you could bump them in each a 1/4".

 

[mcmasterson]

Al, much appreciated!
The dimensions of the tank are 20"Lx10"Wx12"H
Skimmer Dimensions are: 4.9" L x 2.1" W x 13.3" H
I also think it would be very helpful to start a thread and list their GPH rating and physical sizes of the sump/fuges
Shawn, what are your thoughts on the height of the baffles i have chosen? Is it good to have the bubble trap higher or lower or the same as the first baffle?

 

[acrylic51]

I would see what operating water level the skimmer needs.....that is what you would use to determine your baffle height.....Do you know what the manufacturer recommends for water depth?

 

[acrylic51]

Ahhhhh when Al gets the plans laid out, it will be super easy to work the dimensions, but I'm thinking we could push it a little harder than 600gph if your game????

Any issues with submerging your drain line from the overflow in the sump?

 

[acrylic51]

I would think that you could possibly eliminate the double baffle on the hand drawn sketch....You could probably use just a single baffle separating the fuge from the return section, but I would use at least 2 baffles from the skimmer section to the return section......
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/40#post_3326792
I like this design, based off of one of Mark from Melev's Reef who has been building custom sumps for a long time and a great source of information. Just throwing it out there but perhaps you can modify it to fit your needs. It's a very popular and proven design.



This is the drawing I was referring to.......the baffle that's lifted up from the right side of the pic coming from the fuge section.......

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/381467/eshopps-vs-lifereef-overflow/40#post_3327028
I would think that you could possibly eliminate the double baffle on the hand drawn sketch....You could probably use just a single baffle separating the fuge from the return section, but I would use at least 2 baffles from the skimmer section to the return section......
You're right, probably not needed. And if there was no need to push a lot of flow through the sump then there probably wouldn't be a ton of need to have 3 on the other side either. Might be able to get away with just 2 I would speculate.