110 gal Mixed Reef Build. 180 gal System

lubeck

Active Member
I think I figured out what I want to do with the overflow. 3/8" hole, teeth 3/4" spacing, 1.5" long(hole). My starting point at the top of the hole will be 1.5" from the top of the tank. Does this sound like its enough for the bean overflow with 1.5" drain lines? ( I believe it's 1.5" or 1"). The integrity of the tank won't be compromised ?
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Hey....Bob......Tank pics look super......So you think you'd like to polish tanks for a living.......


Looks very good.......



Like the layout......Looks like a Lenox hole saw bit....... Anyways I'm kinda confused what your contemplating at this point.....I seen mention of a 3/8" hole and then teeth.......
I was looking at the 1 pic and kinda curious what are the dimensions of the opening cut into the euro bracing closest to the back wall of the tank.......Not exactly sure what the 2 bigger circles are on each end of the tank up high in the corners are for......
I remember you mentioning access to a router.....Any chance you have access to a nail gun or something to make a simple jig out of MDF......The biggest key here is making the cut good and consistent, because you only get 1 shot at it....There's no do overs.......So is the game plan an external or internal overflow box.....I'm very unsure of an internal overflow box due to issue with accessing the inside of the overflow box if needed unless you confirm that you can get your hands inside the small cutouts in the back of the euro bracing.......
Your idea or thoughts on cutting a long continuous slot is a decent idea, but it might be a bit more advantageous to cut a slot, but not 1 continuous cut as your thinking.....Maybe taking the total length you had planned, but dividing it into 2 slots.....Dividing it into 2 slots with a solid area between the to cutouts would give you more rigidity if there is such a work.....Meaning that if you cut a continuous cut from end to end basically the euro bracing isn't really providing much support to the back panel. At least with 2 small cutouts or slots you are still tying things together IMO........There's more structural ability this way vs 1 long continuous slot........
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Another key to laying out your cutout or slot is you have to keep in mind that your water level will be set somewhat by the lowest level of the cutout.....So basically if the inside dimensions of the tank are 24" and you drop down and your bottom of your cut is at 22" then your water level will be roughly 22"-23" tops.....Being you might get a tad more height depending how much flow your pushing through the tank, but the water level would never be to the very top of the tank, so that might be something to consider as well.....
Again I mention it as a precaution, and if you go back and look at my pic of my tank how I cut the cutouts, and how deep they actually are, the water level would be so much lower without the grates, but with the grates in place it does raise the water level significantly.....But also in the pic it will give you an excellent idea as to how it doesn't weaken the integrity of the tank doing it this way with smaller cutouts vs 1 large cutout.....
I have to reiterate......Jigs are key with these cuts......
 

lubeck

Active Member
Hey....Bob......Tank pics look super......So you think you'd like to polish tanks for a living.......




Looks very good.......





Like the layout......Looks like a Lenox hole saw bit....... Anyways I'm kinda confused what your contemplating at this point.....I seen mention of a 3/8" hole and then teeth.......

 I was looking at the 1 pic and kinda curious what are the dimensions of the opening cut into the euro bracing closest to the back wall of the tank.......Not exactly sure what the 2 bigger circles are on each end of the tank up high in the corners are for......
The circles were one of my original ideas but have changed. O was going to use them as the return from the sump but decided to use the existing holes in the corners of the eurobrace and run my returns through them.
I remember you mentioning access to a router.....Any chance you have access to a nail gun or something to make a simple jig out of MDF......The biggest key here is making the cut good and consistent, because you only get 1 shot at it....There's no do overs.......So is the game plan an external or internal overflow box.....I'm very unsure of an internal overflow box due to issue with accessing the inside of the overflow box if needed unless you confirm that you can get your hands inside the small cutouts in the back of the euro bracing.......
I'm not a carpenter by any means don't know what a jig is yet. I believe it's a template? I did source a router and will get it tomorrow. I'm going external for sure
Your idea or thoughts on cutting a long continuous slot is a decent idea, but it might be a bit more advantageous to cut a slot, but not 1 continuous cut as your thinking.....Maybe taking the total length you had planned, but dividing it into 2 slots.....Dividing it into 2 slots with a solid area between the to cutouts would give you more rigidity if there is such a work.....Meaning that if you cut a continuous cut from end to end basically the euro bracing isn't really providing much support to the back panel.  At least with 2 small cutouts or slots you are still tying things together IMO........There's more structural ability this way vs 1 long continuous slot........
That sounds good and know I could do it. I want to be certain I'm not ruining the structure though???? How close to the top do you think I can start the cut? 1"? How long should each one be? 20" 18" 16"?
I'm not sure what to do I know I have a lot more chances for error cutting the teeth then cutting two long strip?
 

acrylic51

Active Member
With a jig(pattern) and a pattern router bit, it's almost impossible to screw up the cuts.......With the slots you would have to go pretty close to the top to keep the water level high in the DT, but I don't really see that being a problem since it won't be a continuous cutout......
What dimensions are you planning for the overflow box.......
 

lubeck

Active Member
Well I think that depends on where I start the cuts at the top and if I do 2 slots or the traditional grate. I would love some help and you may have the parts already. I'm going to use 1.5" bulkheads and piping to complete the bean overflow setup. With that said I will be cutting teeth into the 1.5" elbows that will rest directly on the bottom of the overflow thus creating a "natural" grate and having a fairly shallow overflow box. This should help even minimize the noise since the water won't have far to fall. So I guess I need to factor in how tall and how deep the 1.5" elbow? I'm using the exact parts list bean has on his website with the exception of I will be using the 1.5" bulkheads. So what would my dimensions be Shawn ?
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Mmmmmm I'm going to have to shoot you a text.......Phone is charging currently so it'll be a bit......I'm not so sure on the elbows being resting completely on the bottom of the overflow bottom.....This doesn't necessitate "quietness".....Where you gain the "quietness" is from minimizing the distance the water falls from the overflow cutout on the tank to the water surface in the actual overflow box itself.....You want this distance as short as possible.........

This kind of a bad pic, but the best 1 I have on the computer.....You can see the depth the elbow sits in my overflow box.....Faintly in the background you can see a bit of brown between the 2nd & 3rd standpipes just above the tops of the elbows.....That's actually a pic with the grates removed.....So honestly in the pic where I have them set at you looking at possibly 3"-4" of water dropping....doesn't sound like a ton, but then you add in the velocity at which the water is flowing.....It's intensified a bit.....Now moving the elbows closer to the water surface doesn't affect the flow ability or adjust ability, but it does limit the distance the water is dropping......Hopefully that made some sense.......The emergency pipe the far left pipe the elbow is turned up.....I have that set that it would kick in if the tank level would rise up a 1/2" on the euro bracing.....This only gives me a safety margin of a 1/2" before I have water flowing over the tank......Another safety measure I might employ would be to put a float switch either the standard electrical float or possibly an optical sensor at that level and just in case the emergency would "fail" me.....The optical or float switch (which would be hooked to the Apex) would then in turn shut the return pump down causing the water level to drop immediately and would then send me notification as to something is wrong, and can have it trouble shot by my wife and then once it's verified all is clear, I can re fire the system remotely from my phone.....Again a whole different monster here, but some food for thought.......
Anyways I don't see an issue with dropping down possibly an 1" under the euro bracing and starting the cut......I do have ideas or tips on how to reinforce the area and tie the external overflow box into the rest of the tank.....Now these steps won't be super easy, but you'll have plenty of help along the way trust me.......I actually have a couple ideas thoughts I'd like to throw at you behind the scenes........Like I said I'll shoot you a text on the phone.......
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Sorry forgot to answer 1 of your questions Bob......
You only need to make the overflow box deep enough and wide enough to house the standpipes......I always go overkill, so yes my overflow box is monsterous looking......But when your buying your PVC parts for the build remember to use street elbows vs standard.....A little better flow, but they take a little more space as well, so that factors into things, but also remember that they can be oriented in the box anyway you see fit....They don't have to be straight on to the slot in the tank.......
 

acrylic51

Active Member

Ok....I like teasing a bit.....When I had mentioned about additional reinforcement since that is important to you for numerous reasons......I'm cheap......Have spent way to much money on acrylic and couldn't see myself calling my budding looking for more 1" acrylic and had scraps laying around, but didn't have enough solid material to make euro bracing for my overflow.....Yes....euro bracing on my overflow....it wouldn't be a complete tank without it.....
I had to bond/seam 2 pieces together to make 1 piece.....After a bunch of sanding and polishing it's clear again.....Picture makes it look worse than it is.....but the piece is glued into place on top of the overflow box, and then the edges(on the right hand side of the pic) or cut/fabricated to fit tightly against the euro bracing of the tank, which I purposely left long to bond the pieces together......Anyway as you can see there is a way to tie everything tightly together.............
 

lubeck

Active Member
Lasers? Euro bracing for an overflow!! You are intense Shawn. I like it. I think I will buy one set of the bean overflow before I send my specs to Tap plastics. That way I can get the exact measurements. I got a quote of using 1/4" acrylic 5"x5"x60" cemented to an L for $139. I paid 300 for my whole setup. Yikes
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/394626/new-110-gal-mixed-reef-build-this-is-going-to-be-good/20#post_3512856
Lasers? Euro bracing for an overflow!! You are intense Shawn. I like it. I think I will buy one set of the bean overflow before I send my specs to Tap plastics. That way I can get the exact measurements. I got a quote of using 1/4" acrylic 5"x5"x60" cemented to an L for $139. I paid 300 for my whole setup. Yikes
Optical sensors.......Can be a little more accurate as far as sensing......Yes euro bracing for the overflow.....Ties everything nice and neatly together.......
 

lubeck

Active Member
I believe the top back and bottom are 3/8" and the front sides is 1/2". Sorry about that optical sensors is what I meant
 

lubeck

Active Member
I'm going to opt with the two slots each 16" long 3/8" wide. Do you think 3/8" is too big for critters to get thru?
 

lubeck

Active Member
Hey Shawn just got home from work. Need to do a water change and some maintenance on my 30 gal The HA is getting worse. I think I see strains of bryopsi. Mingled with the HA. I haven't changed my phos out for a few weeks so I think that is why. I'm also going to try and raise my mag slowly up to 1400-1500 and see if that helps minimize growth
Anyway. I brought home a broken acrylic box I had at work so I can practice with the router. I believe it is a plunge router so that should make things easier once I practice I will then make the jig. I brought home a piece of wood that I think will be long enough to make it work. It's just a guide, right? It doesn't have to be the whole length of the tank right?
One big question I have is when I cut the holes in the tank, should I "shave" a layer off and then lower the router slowly shaving a little off at a time or should I predrill a hole all the way through and slowly work it going all the way through? I hope that makes sense
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/394626/new-110-gal-mixed-reef-build-this-is-going-to-be-good/20#post_3513056
Hey Shawn just got home from work. Need to do a water change and some maintenance on my 30 gal The HA is getting worse. I think I see strains of bryopsi. Mingled with the HA. I haven't changed my phos out for a few weeks so I think that is why. I'm also going to try and raise my mag slowly up to 1400-1500 and see if that helps minimize growth
Anyway. I brought home a broken acrylic box I had at work so I can practice with the router. I believe it is a plunge router so that should make things easier once I practice I will then make the jig. I brought home a piece of wood that I think will be long enough to make it work. It's just a guide, right? It doesn't have to be the whole length of the tank right?
One big question I have is when I cut the holes in the tank, should I "shave" a layer off and then lower the router slowly shaving a little off at a time or should I predrill a hole all the way through and slowly work it going all the way through? I hope that makes sense
I was having a hard time figuring your work schedule......Being the time difference between us.....
As far as the bryopsi, if that is what it is, some have had good success in raising their Mg levels as you suggested and maintaining it for a period of time.......Again some have and some haven't......
Scrap acrylic is a great tool to practice with....I always like to keep odd ball pieces laying around even though my wife might suggest it's junk and clutter, but you never know when you'll come up with a crazy idea and just need to practice.....Honestly any wood can work as far as making a jig.....I had just suggested MDF since it's super easy to cut and can easily be shaped rather than other material IMO.......You are correct the wood(jig) is nothing more than a guide. Rather than cut "free hand" with a router, which I wouldn't suggest the wood(jig) is nothing more than a pattern for the router to follow.....I can be accomplished a couple of ways.....Really it depends on what type of router bit you choose to work with......
For this work or cut I would personally prefer to use a pattern cutting bit......I prefer this bit to a flush trim bit that could be used, but the pattern bit to me is easier since your "jig" or pattern would be laid on top of the cutting surface and the bearing on the bit would ride against(inside) your pattern you've made.....Whereas if you went with a flush trim bit your pattern would be on the bottom side of the surface you were cutting.....Again both would work, but personally I think the pattern bit with the bearing up top would be the choice.....
Here's what the bit would look like.....Again when choosing your bit you need to know what size shank/shaft the router will take.....some will only take 1/4 shanks/shafts, while other routers are capable of handling both 1/4" & 1/2" shanks. My router I can go back and forth between the sizes, but not sure on the router you have.....Also you'll have to look at what the cutting diameter is on the bit......The smallest I found doing a quick search at WoodCraft was 1/2" I'm sure you could find 3/8" cutting diameter if you looked.....Again that's why I had hinted at a 1/2" slot.....Easily to come by cutting diameter......Anyways here's a pic of the router bit you'll be searching.....
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/394626/new-110-gal-mixed-reef-build-this-is-going-to-be-good/20#post_3513056
Hey Shawn just got home from work. Need to do a water change and some maintenance on my 30 gal The HA is getting worse. I think I see strains of bryopsi. Mingled with the HA. I haven't changed my phos out for a few weeks so I think that is why. I'm also going to try and raise my mag slowly up to 1400-1500 and see if that helps minimize growth
Anyway. I brought home a broken acrylic box I had at work so I can practice with the router. I believe it is a plunge router so that should make things easier once I practice I will then make the jig. I brought home a piece of wood that I think will be long enough to make it work. It's just a guide, right? It doesn't have to be the whole length of the tank right?
One big question I have is when I cut the holes in the tank, should I "shave" a layer off and then lower the router slowly shaving a little off at a time or should I predrill a hole all the way through and slowly work it going all the way through? I hope that makes sense
A very good question.......You mentioned the router is a "plunge" style router.....Mine also is a plunge router, but never use the plunge base.........I'd suggest, and this is how I prefer to route on thinner material and this all plays into the quality and HP of the router you have in hand.....A small hp router might not be able to make the cut in 1 single pass.....What HP is the router you have on hand.......
Personally I prefer to pre drill a hole in the area I will be making the cutout and that way I can drop the router bit down through the material and make my cut.......IMO by trying to lower the bit down through the material and as it cuts, could present another mishap if not familiar with how it's going to grab, and yes it will at times grab the material and want to rip you with it.....This is why I suggest to pre drill a hole large enough to pass the router bit through, that way you can set the depth of the bit just below the other side of the material to get a clean cut......
Now on the other hand if the router is under powered, or material is super thick then yes multiple passes on the material is strongly suggested.....My Porter Cable even though beefy than what most might purchase still wasn't enough to handle 1' in a single pass....So what I did was make multiple passes shaving roughly 1/4"-3/8" at a pass.....1 it kept the material and bit cool.....No need to put unneeded heat or stress on the material......Plus it prolongs the life of the bit.....
Another tip.....The bit you do purchase.....Buy 2......You'll laugh and others might say who cares, but you never mix your wood and acrylic bits.....Buy 2 bits, and use 1 to practice and make your jig out of wood, and when your ready to actually cut the tank, then you get the new bit and use it on acrylic only.....Even the top notch pros will tell you never mix.......Trust me I've tried mixing a few times and have learned the hard way....
 

lubeck

Active Member
I was having a hard time figuring your work schedule......Being the time difference between us.....
As far as the bryopsi, if that is what it is, some have had good success in raising their Mg levels as you suggested and maintaining it for a period of time.......Again some have and some haven't......
Scrap acrylic is a great tool to practice with....I always like to keep odd ball pieces laying around even though my wife might suggest it's junk and clutter, but you never know when you'll come up with a crazy idea and just need to practice.....Honestly any wood can work as far as making a jig.....I had just suggested MDF since it's super easy to cut and can easily be shaped rather than other material IMO.......You are correct the wood(jig) is nothing more than a guide.  Rather than cut "free hand" with a router, which I wouldn't suggest the wood(jig) is nothing more than a pattern for the router to follow.....I can be accomplished a couple of ways.....Really it depends on what type of router bit you choose to work with......
For this work or cut I would personally prefer to use a pattern cutting bit......I prefer this bit to a flush trim bit that could be used, but the pattern bit to me is easier since your "jig" or pattern would be laid on top of the cutting surface and the bearing on the bit would ride against(inside) your pattern you've made.....Whereas if you went with a flush trim bit your pattern would be on the bottom side of the surface you were cutting.....Again both would work, but personally I think the pattern bit with the bearing up top would be the choice.....
Here's what the bit would look like.....Again when choosing your bit you need to know what size shank/shaft the router will take.....some will only take 1/4 shanks/shafts, while other routers are capable of handling both 1/4" & 1/2" shanks.  My router I can go back and forth between the sizes, but not sure on the router you have.....Also you'll have to look at what the cutting diameter is on the bit......The smallest I found doing a quick search at WoodCraft was 1/2"  I'm sure you could find 3/8" cutting diameter if you looked.....Again that's why I had hinted at a 1/2" slot.....Easily to come by cutting diameter......Anyways here's a pic of the router bit you'll be searching.....

A very good question.......You mentioned the router is a "plunge" style router.....Mine also is a plunge router, but never use the plunge base.........I'd suggest, and this is how I prefer to route on thinner material and this all plays into the quality and HP of the router you have in hand.....A small hp router might not be able to make the cut in 1 single pass.....What HP is the router you have on hand.......
Personally I prefer to pre drill a hole in the area I will be making the cutout and that way I can drop the router bit down through the material and make my cut.......IMO by trying to lower the bit down through the material and as it cuts, could present another mishap if not familiar with how it's going to grab, and yes it will at times grab the material and want to rip you with it.....This is why I suggest to pre drill a hole large enough to pass the router bit through, that way you can set the depth of the bit just below the other side of the material to get a clean cut......
Now on the other hand if the router is under powered, or material is super thick then yes multiple passes on the material is strongly suggested.....My Porter Cable even though beefy than what most might purchase still wasn't enough to handle 1' in a single pass....So what I did was make multiple passes shaving roughly 1/4"-3/8" at a pass.....1 it kept the material and bit cool.....No need to put unneeded heat or stress on the material......Plus it prolongs the life of the bit.....
Another tip.....The bit you do purchase.....Buy 2......You'll laugh and others might say who cares, but you never mix your wood and acrylic bits.....Buy 2 bits, and use 1 to practice and make your jig out of wood, and when your ready to actually cut the tank, then you get the new bit and use it on acrylic only.....Even the top notch pros will tell you never mix.......Trust me I've tried mixing a few times and have learned the hard way....
Hey Shawn yeah my work schedule is pretty crazy usually 9 to 9ish. I just found out that I do not have plunge router. The router is a r181fb . It's not a plunge router. I started reading the manual last night but fell asleep shortly getting into it. Lol. It looks like its 1.5 peak horse power what is the name of the drill bit exactly. I need to do more research but thank you for the direction.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Not a big deal it's not a plunge router.....Personally I never use the plunge base on my router......As far as HP you should be perfectly fine......The bit you'll want to search out is called a pattern cutting bit.....
 
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