All of this over cartoons?

[reefraff]

It's about time to take of the friggin gloves with these nut jobs. It isn't just arabs, it's islam in general. I would guess there are many times more non-arab Muslims than arab and the extemism is spread around many diferent cultures.
I watched an interview with a guy who had a rather chilling explaination of the danger. In many cases the more devoted to islam a person becomes the more radical they become.

 

[ohioguy06]

Originally Posted by Beth
What is interesting about all this is not the Muslims' reaction but the West's reaction! How many times have Christian religious symbols been blasphemed? Yet Christians just had to put up with it because it is "freedom of speech". Now, CNN, and others I'm sure who will chime in and will

just to be fair to these people; most of whom hate our guts and would like to wipe us off the face of the earth.
Couldnt have been better said

 

[nm reef]

The entire history of mankind is filled with the bone chilling fact that history is filled with the blood of those murdered in the name of god...no matter the face or text attributed to god...those that allow a specific "religion" to define their interputation of god have always and will always spill blood of any and all that oppose their narrow view of how their religion should be viewed and all opposition to their specific definition of god. It seems to me that the very nature of religion and god results in a radical belief that all who do not believe are doomed and are less worthy to live...all the major religions are two faced...each has a fundamental belief that we should do unto others as we would have others do unto us...but all the major religions ignore this basis tenant and ultimately murder in order to somehow prove that the religion/god they follow is the one and only proper choice. This gory history is a basic fact of life!
It is also why democratic governments have vainly attempted to prevent religion from being involved in government...the basic issue behind middle east problems and current American political seisures is the allowed/encouraged intrusion of RELIGION into politics...allowing any religion to overcome/influence the government is a recipe for murder and more blood...seperation of church and state is vital for the continued existance of mankind...but before the peoples of the world can ever sit down and come to understand the destructive nature of ANY religion there will be much more blood spilt than any ocean could ever hope to hold. All those who claim to follow a specific religion are guilty...
Personally I believe that there should be censureship....any and all public mention/discussion of any religion or mention of god in any of his proclaimed forms should be prohibited ...period! Any attempt by any religion to influence or corrupt any government should result in censureship....there is absolutely no place in government for "belief" or "faith"...the world should have evolved to the point that sane rational thought would govern the actions of mankind and not a "belief" in any "god" or "religion".
But...sadly...the religions of the world that proclaim to be the one and the way will continue to spill the blood of all the other religions that proclaim to be the one and the way...and one day the very religions that proclaim to be the one and the way will prove to be the one and the way to the destruction of all mankind...so in a sense I also belive they are indeed the one and the way....to our ultimate destruction!!!
...and just to clearly state my position...I do indeed believe in the concept and essence of "GOD"...but I have absolutely no use or tolerance for any RELIGION!!!!!!

 

[37g joe]

Originally Posted by NM reef
The entire history of mankind is filled with the bone chilling fact that history is filled with the blood of those murdered in the name of god...no matter the face or text attributed to god...those that allow a specific "religion" to define their interputation of god have always and will always spill blood of any and all that oppose their narrow view of how their religion should be viewed and all opposition to their specific definition of god. It seems to me that the very nature of religion and god results in a radical belief that all who do not believe are doomed and are less worthy to live...all the major religions are two faced...each has a fundamental belief that we should do unto others as we would have others do unto us...but all the major religions ignore this basis tenant and ultimately murder in order to somehow prove that the religion/god they follow is the one and only proper choice. This gory history is a basic fact of life!
It is also why democratic governments have vainly attempted to prevent religion from being involved in government...the basic issue behind middle east problems and current American political seisures is the allowed/encouraged intrusion of RELIGION into politics...allowing any religion to overcome/influence the government is a recipe for murder and more blood...seperation of church and state is vital for the continued existance of mankind...but before the peoples of the world can ever sit down and come to understand the destructive nature of ANY religion there will be much more blood spilt than any ocean could ever hope to hold. All those who claim to follow a specific religion are guilty...
Personally I believe that there should be censureship....any and all public mention/discussion of any religion or mention of god in any of his proclaimed forms should be prohibited ...period! Any attempt by any religion to influence or corrupt any government should result in censureship....there is absolutely no place in government for "belief" or "faith"...the world should have evolved to the point that sane rational thought would govern the actions of mankind and not a "belief" in any "god" or "religion".
But...sadly...the religions of the world that proclaim to be the one and the way will continue to spill the blood of all the other religions that proclaim to be the one and the way...and one day the very religions that proclaim to be the one and the way will prove to be the one and the way to the destruction of all mankind...so in a sense I also belive they are indeed the one and the way....to our ultimate destruction!!!
...and just to clearly state my position...I do indeed believe in the concept and essence of "GOD"...but I have absolutely no use or tolerance for any RELIGION!!!!!!
Wow this is the same Argument that the comunist nations have used but history has shown us that non religious goverments are just as bloddy or even worse. You say you have no tolerance for religon well neither did the former soviet union or china and look at the MILLIONS they butchard and oppressed. without religion we are just smart animials but with no real reason to perserve life. You Choose to ignore all the good relegion has done. What is the real enemy is the nature of man to destroy. What relgion does is to place a set of values for people to live by. People choose to ignore those values and proclaim that the reason they are waring is for religion but most of the time in the past it was for different reasons they just used religion as a frontman. This is at least true in christianity. but for islam you are right the religion was founded by bloodshed and teriousm read the koran and the hadith muhamid was a terrorist. He commanded his folowers to raid and butchar caravans for his own profit. He comanded his folowers to lie steal and murder. He also told his follower to make false treaties with thier enenmys to decieve them. He wared with meccah and when he lost his campaign he drew up a treattie with them but when the meccan army left thier city he threw out the treattie and siezed the city and butchard the ihabatants. this is what he proclaimed to be Gihad. also to those people who say isslam translates to the word peace are wrong it actually translates to the word submission. and thier goal is to make all submit to allah.

 

[petieaztec]

I know what you are saying about the politics being more separate than the religon in the communist governments BUT....you know the soviet union does have a religon, my family is from the former USSR. Constantanople, Russia. They called them selves eastern orthodox and it said in my greatgrandfathers jornal that he had a popular religon. anyways i am just trying to say that religon is but a set of beliefs and unfortunately some governments use theirs to manipulate others into thinking that what they are doing is in the name of god or whatever you call your higher being. Like when the African tribes say that the kings are demigods (half human- half god) just to make civilians bow down to them. Mr. Laddin feels that he is a demi god i am sure by now and that strikes fear into those everyday people especially if they are not well educated. the rest are scared of being killed by the mob.....

 

[darth tang]

Religion and government are one and the same if you truly look at it. Both dictate laws. Bothe dictate freedoms. Bothe dictate punishments for violations of laws or freedoms. Both have a figurehead. The ONLY difference is one hands out punishments during your life, the other hands them out after life.
These two can coexist, that is not the problem. The problem is when people take their personal beliefs above the beliefs of others. Religion isn't the problem, the people are.
It always comes down to the people.
You know, maybe if the Muslim religion had a popular comedian they might lighten up......

 

[jmick]

I’m sorry but I disagree with what you. We do not need religion to know right from wrong and to say we are just smart animals with no reason to preserve life without it is ludicrous! I do believe in a higher power but I don’t believe in any organized religions. It silly to think that the power that created the universe would need men to take his word and put it in a book and require us to worship it. Religion is here to maintain the status quo and to keep the masses in check (fear of being condemned to hell is a fairly powerful deterrent).

 

[darth tang]

Originally Posted by Jmick
I’m sorry but I disagree with what you. We do not need religion to know right from wrong and to say we are just smart animals with no reason to preserve life without it is ludicrous!

I disagree...at some point there were no governments to teach you right and wrong. without government and or religion the people would have been no more than children......
Do your kids autoimatically know right and wrong without YOU or SOMEBODY teaching them? Nope, my son used to punch his sister when he didn't get his way. He didn't know this was wrong...he had to be told.

 

[darth tang]

I will go one step further. Look at the native American tribes when the lived here immediately after the new world was discovered. Some were peaceful. Others warred with each other of food and land. Stole from each other......they didn't know this was wrong.

 

[scubadoo]

It has been estimated the 10% of all Muslims are radical fundametalists when it come to their "religion". I am not certain how this was quantified but it does equate to approximately 1 million. I would guess additional Muslims would sy violence is okay depending on the situation.
Either way we must remember itis not all Muslims that profess this...but it is my opinion may are situationalists....which means their position regarding volence will change based on the "situation".
Either way one only needs to look at the Koran and realize it does sterss violence, murder and destruction on/of/to the non-Muslim world.
Good and bad is present in all religions...and it is usally the extermists which cause the problems.
Perosanlly, I have no reason to change what I dodregardless of someones beleif. I should and this country or any country should display tolerance but those we are to display tolreance towards can show zero tolerance in return?
Sounds like the tail is wagging the dog. We all need to wake up and stop living in a fantasyland.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
I will go one step further. Look at the native American tribes when the lived here immediately after the new world was discovered. Some were peaceful. Others warred with each other of food and land. Stole from each other......they didn't know this was wrong.

When ever two nations or tribes are in a position where they are sharing/competing for resources it’s only a matter of time till war breaks out—it’s human nature. With religion it’s no different, they know it’s wrong to kill but they still do (with religion it’s for god and with no religion it’s for greed).
I never said you are born knowing right from wrong, it’s something we learn and we don’t need religion to be good people. The earliest communities would never have come together if these god less people were “animals.” These earliest groups knew not to kill one another and knew enough to share ideas and help the community…if they didn’t people would have stayed nomadic and would not have come together.

 

[darth tang]

Many tribes "killed" amongst themselves for years. The Vikings are a good example. The Huns are another.

 

[farmboy]

I saw a PBS show on Hitler. He gave speaches invoking the Almighty! "God will bless Germany. . ." Hitler was NUTS! God/religion were not to blame. I agree with the earlier poster. People are free to screw up and often do.

 

[1journeyman]

You cannot take the fallacies of man and blame "god" or religion. Historically there has been a lot of bloodshed done in the name of "god", but that doesn't mean it was correct... There, of course, has also been a lot of good done in the name of "god". That seems to get overlooked.
We live in the 21st. century. It's time we quit excusing islamic behavior based on western religion's behavior of 1000 years ago.
Without a God man is free to pursue pleasure as"god". Hedonism leads to selfishness and a meaningless existence.

 

[petieaztec]

yeah i was watching i think pbs last night on the ancient irish the name escapes me, but they did human sacrafices in the name of their religon. plus the laws which we empliment come from ancient or past religons. killing someone comes from religon maybe not your own but that is where it comes from. even being monogomus (having one partner) is due to religon. due to the fact that we are a christian based society we can only be married legally to one man or woman. I know that we don't like to admitt it but we are ruled by the morals of certain religons.P.S. my spelling sucks

 

[jmick]

Here's some more good info on the good deeds of our Christian friends....
Later European Christian invaders systematically murdered additional Aboriginal people, from the Canadian Arctic to South America. They used warfare, death marches, forced relocation to barren lands, destruction of their main food supply -- the Buffalo -- and poisoning. Oppression continued into the 20th century, through actions by governments and religious organizations which systematically destroyed Native culture and religious heritage. One present-day byproduct of this oppression is suicide. Today, Canadian Natives have the highest suicide rate of any identifiable population group in the world.
The genocide against American Natives was one of the most massive, and longest lasting genocidal campaigns in human history. It started, like all genocides, with the oppressor treating the victims as sub-humans. It continued until almost all Natives were wiped of the face of the earth, along with much of their language, culture and religion.

 

[darth tang]

I do believ a lot of murder, ----, and killings have been done without religion involved as well. So how is religion to blame?

 

[petieaztec]

and to add you know that a christian can mean a lot of different sects, i mean i am a form of christian faith and i don't handle snakes. or hide out in montana and say that i want to seceed from the US and start my own country. by the way what ever happend to those people i was watching the bio on the whole thing and fell asleep a while ago. :notsure:

 

[jmick]

My point is that Christian nations have committed the worst atrocities over last 300 years. The Native Americans were deemed as sub human by the invading Christians and were put to the sword. The Jews were looked at much the same by the Germans.

 

[darth tang]

You are confusing land theft with racism.......If we didn't want their land...they would have been left alone.
Oh, and I am sorry, I thought it was European and U.S. governm,ents that killed the indians.