Another Disgusting Oil Spill!!

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3265533
The first NEW regulation is, you must have a backup plan and tertiary plan for failure of the primary plan.
BP - Current plan, backup and tertiary disaster plan
1.Drill and make money
2.see plan one
3.see plan one
BP - Disaster Happens – The wing it plan
1.Drill and make money
2.After oil slick the size of Delaware – start welding a box and cone to cover one of the 3 leaks - availability, another week. Engineering discipline used - SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess)
3.Drill a relief well 30 to 90 days
Side note: Let the public know someone else is at fault
For someone with no plan BP had a lot of personal and equipment in place pretty quick. Right now it seems it's the federal government with no plan.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3265582
For someone with no plan BP had a lot of personal and equipment in place pretty quick. Right now it seems it's the federal government with no plan.
LOL You slay me... Some how you can always in the end blame the government and private business can do nothing wrong and do anything better than the government. If you call BPs actions and this disaster a business success, perhaps we all need to redefined success.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3265603
LOL You slay me... Some how you can always in the end blame the government and private business can do nothing wrong and do anything better than the government. If you call BPs actions and this disaster a business success, perhaps we all need to redefined success.
In all sincerity, and I realize you're probably just stirring the pot, you're just flat wrong. Like not even opinion wrong, but being factually incorrect. The problem was bigger than their response, but there was a private all hands on deck response. For instance where i work there is a private oil response unit, that is part of a gulf wide co-op. Less than 6 hours after the initial accedent they were on their way. The regulatory body for offshore drilling signed off on the drilling plans, and the oil spill plans... Basically the Feds said the planned response was sufficient or else they never would have even started drilling the hole. Unfortunately they were wrong...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3265603
LOL You slay me... Some how you can always in the end blame the government and private business can do nothing wrong and do anything better than the government. If you call BPs actions and this disaster a business success, perhaps we all need to redefined success.
In all sincerity, and I realize you're probably just stirring the pot, you're just flat wrong. Like not even opinion wrong, but being factually incorrect. The problem was bigger than their response, but there was a private all hands on deck response. For instance where i work there is a private oil response unit, that is part of a gulf wide co-op. Less than 6 hours after the initial accedent they were on their way. The regulatory body for offshore drilling signed off on the drilling plans, and the oil spill plans... Basically the Feds said the planned response was sufficient or else they never would have even started drilling the hole. Unfortunately they were wrong...

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3265069
You bet drill baby drill. Before you go blaming big business consider that government creates the regulations they must follow so perhaps you should ask why the US government doesn't require that remove valve other countries do. Your beloved Democrats have had control of Congress for more than 3 years and have done nothing to change the reg. They have had the white house a year and a half and the Ossiah has done nothing to change the regs. Hmmmm.
Sorry, I miss the hypocrisy of this one earlier. WE all know, including you, Big Business won’t do the right thing without regulation. Other countries must regulate better than the U.S. This is what I am taking away from this.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3265610
Basically the Feds said the planned response was sufficient or else they never would have even started drilling the hole. Unfortunately they were wrong...
Again, I guess you are right - The government failed by not making business have a better response and containment strategy. We all know business only has to do minimally what the government requires... Remember business is so much smarter than government. BP could have done so much better than minimum, correct?

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3265607
In all sincerity, and I realize you're probably just stirring the pot, you're just flat wrong. Like not even opinion wrong, but being factually incorrect. The problem was bigger than their response, but there was a private all hands on deck response. For instance where i work there is a private oil response unit, that is part of a gulf wide co-op. Less than 6 hours after the initial accedent they were on their way. The regulatory body for offshore drilling signed off on the drilling plans, and the oil spill plans... Basically the Feds said the planned response was sufficient or else they never would have even started drilling the hole. Unfortunately they were wrong...
The Federal Regulators signed off on the plan because they were told the safety equipment that was in place was ALWAYS effective in any major spill. The Feds were told by BP and this private oil response unit you describe that they had failsafe equipment in place, i.e. this 'check valve' sitting on the ocean floor right on top of the hole, and not to worry. The valves always worked in the past. So the Feds didn't worry. OOOPS, the check valve won't turn on. Wow, this never has happened. SORRY. OOOPS, we intially told you the leak was spilling 1000/barrels a day, when in reality it was 5000 barrels. But let's blame the Feds and the Coast Guard because they are suppose to be experts in determining how much oil is coming out of a hole by simply looking at an oil slick on top of the water. When's the last time, if ever, there was a major platform catastrophe, especially one in waters as deep as 1 mile down?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3265615
Again, I guess you are right - The government failed by not making business have a better response and containment strategy. We all know business only has to do minimally what the government requires... Remember business is so much smarter than government. BP could have done so much better than minimum, correct?
Wow, ok, yeah, that is exactly what I said... All I was simply saying is that you're all holy federal government was aware of the BP planned response, (the one you claim was non-existant) and thought it sufficient for a disaster type senario...
These guys are worried about hurricanes, this probably was not in their book of even unlikely disaster senarios...
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3265618
The Federal Regulators signed off on the plan because they were told the safety equipment that was in place was ALWAYS effective in any major spill. The Feds were told by BP and this private oil response unit you describe that they had failsafe equipment in place, i.e. this 'check valve' sitting on the ocean floor right on top of the hole, and not to worry. The valves always worked in the past. So the Feds didn't worry. OOOPS, the check valve won't turn on. Wow, this never has happened. SORRY. OOOPS, we intially told you the leak was spilling 1000/barrels a day, when in reality it was 5000 barrels. But let's blame the Feds and the Coast Guard because they are suppose to be experts in determining how much oil is coming out of a hole by simply looking at an oil slick on top of the water. When's the last time, if ever, there was a major platform catastrophe, especially one in waters as deep as 1 mile down?
Dude, now you won't get me to say this often about government regulators, but in this case, MMS does a pretty dang good job keeping things in line in the gulf. They aren't the ignorant rubes that you make them out to be... But this kind of sounds like that standard democrat line, oh they tricked us into voting for the Iraq war... BTW I may be mistaken but I think those flow numbers were coasty numbers the whole time, in reality (and I've seen them say this) there is no way they can accurately tell how much oil is flowing out of that hole. It is just a WAG.

 

[fishtaco]

Has anyone elsle seen that Haliburton may have had a hand in causing the spill or seen the story that BP is trying to get people to sign-off liability for 5000.00 dollars?
Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3265603
LOL You slay me... Some how you can always in the end blame the government and private business can do nothing wrong and do anything better than the government. If you call BPs actions and this disaster a business success, perhaps we all need to redefined success.
You slay me. Who said this was a successful event for BP? After all the crap you libs gave Bush over the Katrina response you show what hypocrites you are when Obama doesn't even mention the oil spill for NINE DAYS and has nothing more that coast guard oversight 2 weeks after the accident but think its a proper response. At least Bush tried to get ahead of the event. Obama's first action was to send a couple cabinet members to LA for a photo op. I'd say that ranks right up there with Bushes fly over.

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3265647
You slay me. Who said this was a successful event for BP? After all the crap you libs gave Bush over the Katrina response you show what hypocrites you are when Obama doesn't even mention the oil spill for NINE DAYS and has nothing more that coast guard oversight 2 weeks after the accident but think its a proper response. At least Bush tried to get ahead of the event. Obama's first action was to send a couple cabinet members to LA for a photo op. I'd say that ranks right up there with Bushes fly over.
What does this have to do with Katrina or Bush? Like I said before, the only political hay I can see here is that many who don't want any type of regulation's on big business at this point have a little egg on their face, what Goldman-Sachs did could be ignored or defended as a gray area. But it is a little harder when this spill is probably going to hammer red states and the effects of the government and big business choosing profit over safety is in your face.
Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3265611
Sorry, I miss the hypocrisy of this one earlier. WE all know, including you, Big Business won’t do the right thing without regulation. Other countries must regulate better than the U.S. This is what I am taking away from this.
And I have said numerpus times in this thread I am amazed the US doesn't require that remote valve many other countries do. I also stated up thread that government regulation in those areas where it is proper is a good thing. In cases like this where person A's actions can have a negative effect on person's B thought Z it is proper for the government to have regulations.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3265634
Wow, ok, yeah, that is exactly what I said... All I was simply saying is that you're all holy federal government was aware of the BP planned response, (the one you claim was non-existant) and thought it sufficient for a disaster type senario...
These guys are worried about hurricanes, this probably was not in their book of even unlikely disaster senarios...
Dude, now you won't get me to say this often about government regulators, but in this case, MMS does a pretty dang good job keeping things in line in the gulf. They aren't the ignorant rubes that you make them out to be... But this kind of sounds like that standard democrat line, oh they tricked us into voting for the Iraq war... BTW I may be mistaken but I think those flow numbers were coasty numbers the whole time, in reality (and I've seen them say this) there is no way they can accurately tell how much oil is flowing out of that hole. It is just a WAG.
The point I'm making is if these flow numbers are just a SWAG, why blame the Coast Guard or the Feds for not reacting faster than they did? Do they have an accurate timeline as to when BP or whoever contacted the Feds and said, "Hey, this oil spill isn't going as well as we expected. We thought we could stop the flow with our check valve, but the valve isn't working. You think you could give us a hand with controlling the oil slick that is becoming more widespread than we predicted?" Was it the next day after the platform completely sank, 3 days, a week?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3265642
Has anyone elsle seen that Haliburton may have had a hand in causing the spill or seen the story that BP is trying to get people to sign-off liability for 5000.00 dollars?
Fishtaco
Halabortion did some cement work, there is no indication they caused anything. Just the company the media loves to hate.
The only thing I saw about BP having people sign a waver was when they were hiring fishing boats to work the boom lines. There was a clause in their contract that would have left BP blameless for any claim. BP claims that was a mix up and they wont hold anyone who already signed the agreement to the terms of that clause. I doubt it would have ever stood up in court anyway. Would have also been a public relations Hiroshima they don't need on top of everything else.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3265650
What does this have to do with Katrina or Bush? Like I said before, the only political hay I can see here is that many who don't want any type of regulation's on big business at this point have a little egg on their face, what Goldman-Sachs did could be ignored or defended as a gray area. But it is a little harder when this spill is probably going to hammer red states and the effects of the government and big business choosing profit over safety is in your face.
Fishtaco
Government saying oil companies must have safety equipment on drilling rigs which can leak oil and kill a whole region's economy a good thing. Government regulation telling a company how much they can pay their employees a bad thing. See the concept? Not all government regulations are good or bad.
What this has to do with Katrina and Bush is the total double standard regarding the federal response to each.

 

[reefraff]

Here is what the coast guard said after the platform sank the day after the explosion
As the rig burned, supply vessels shot water into it to try to keep it afloat and avoid an oil spill, but there were additional explosions Thursday.
Officials previously said the environmental damage appeared minimal, but new challenges have arisen now that the platform has sunk.
The well could be spilling up to 336,000 gallons of crude oil a day, Coast Guard Petty Officer Katherine McNamara said, but she didn't know whether that was occurring. The rig also carried 700,000 gallons of diesel fuel, but that would likely evaporate if the fire didn't consume it.
Coast Guard Rear Adm. Mary Landry said crews saw a 1-by-5-mile rainbow sheen with a dark center of what appeared to be a crude oil mix on the surface of the water. She said there wasn't any evidence crude oil was coming out after the rig sank, but officials also aren't sure what's going on underwater. They have dispatched a vessel to check.
The oil will do much less damage at sea than it would if it hits the shore, said Cynthia Sarthou, executive director of the Gulf Restoration Network.
"If it gets landward, it could be a disaster in the making," she said.
Doug Helton, incident operations coordinator for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's office of response and restoration, said the spill is not expected to come onshore in next three to four days. "But if the winds were to change, it could come ashore more rapidly," he said.
http://www.pressherald.com/news/nati...010-04-23.html

 

[reefraff]

Just heard that BP is on the hook for the full cost of cleanup. There is a 75 million dollar cap on economic damages. Congress is planing on increasing the cap to 10 Billion retroactively. Be interesting to see if BP tries to fight that change in law. If does raise concerns over expo facto or what ever the phrase is.

 

[fishtaco]

Okay, this can't be real, but Huffington Post is reporting that Goldman-Sachs shorted a disaster in the Gulf one day before the explosion. Is it April 1st? Has anyone else heard anything like this?
Fishtaco

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3265665
Just heard that BP is on the hook for the full cost of cleanup. There is a 75 million dollar cap on economic damages. Congress is planing on increasing the cap to 10 Billion retroactively. Be interesting to see if BP tries to fight that change in law. If does raise concerns over expo facto or what ever the phrase is.
I saw this regarding the cap --
Kenneth Baer, spokesman for the Office of Management and Budget, also noted that if BP were found to have acted negligently in the spill or to have violated federal laws, the damages cap under the Oil Pollution Act would be lifted.

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3265661
Government saying oil companies must have safety equipment on drilling rigs which can leak oil and kill a whole region's economy a good thing. Government regulation telling a company how much they can pay their employees a bad thing. See the concept? Not all government regulations are good or bad.
What this has to do with Katrina and Bush is the total double standard regarding the federal response to each.
Except that employee pay has not been the rallying cry of the GOP has it? What was that phrase again that get's shouted all the time? LOL Oh, yeah and if that report about Goldman-Sachs is accurate maybe we can revisit the corporate pay issue also.
Again I don't see how you can see these two disasters as being related at all, I would think a more valid comparison would be the flooding in KY and how well that is responded to, but wait that has not been on the 24 hour news cycle that much. Just saying.
Fishtaco