Asian pollution blamed for halt in global warming

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nihoa

Guest
ive had lots of grants. grants come from all sorts of places and while there is certainly pressure in some cases to produce a product that might then result in another grant there are checks and balances that prevent people from doing that and not getting caught. if you publish your work your methods, analysis, and results are all there for folk to see and you will get called out pretty quick for fudging the process.
some slip through the cracks, there are lots of bad scientists just like there are bad dentists, mechanics, and tank owners. i had an argument with a creationist once who kept repeating jeffrey dahmer was an atheist evolutionist. well hitler was a christian so what? there are bad apples in every crowd and you can air one anothers sides skeletons till the cows come home but that doesnt settle arguments. in science you have disagreement in all fields on all subjects. if you want you can find lots of climate scientists who dont believe we are playing a role or disagree on the magnitude of the problem but it isnt the opinion of the majority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/386519/asian-pollution-blamed-for-halt-in-global-warming/20#post_3395893
??? umm, judging from your post, you've NEVER EVER heard of a grant... You don't think companies/governments/politicians who stand to gain from the alchemy of turning carbon into gold, aren't greasing the "scientific" wheels funding proponents of the global warming hoax? Heck last month, this guy got "busted" http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/22/nasa-scientist-accused-using-celeb-status-among-environmental-groups-to-enrich/
You surely can't think that the global warming crowd is so altruistic that they aren't producing what they are paid to produce? Heck you'd have to be to ignore that bad science that they spit out... To cover up the loss of data, to cherry pick temperature data to shape their findings, to arbitrarily increase the "rise" in the oceans by 20% claiming that the basin holding the water has grown during their seawater projections
btw 5 minutes on google will lead you to articles reporting all these stories...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihoa http:///forum/thread/386519/asian-pollution-blamed-for-halt-in-global-warming/20#post_3395872
there is no end to paranoia. big business? similar to your bearologist i am an ecologist working on reintroductions of hawaiian birds and i was just saying to my collegue the other day how nice it is to be in a flush field as we lit cubans with hundreds and snorted coke off high price strippers. you show me a well paid ecologist and ill give you the 'good job for finding a well paid ecologist' medal.
Hansen has pulled in 1.2 million in outside money that we know of. Not exactly chump change and NASA is stonewalling FOIA requests for more. What's the annual budget for Greenpeace? These groups have to keep sounding the alarm for their donations to keep rolling in as well.
I ain't saying they are all corrupt but it certainly isn't rare. Also a lot of stupidity. Why import Canadian wolves into the US? They were coming back on their own so it was a large waste of money. That isn't the opinion of some right wing anti environmentalist, It was from the mouth of the head of the wolf program in Montana. He favored just letting them slowly migrate back in. Same deal with the bear guy. He was pushing for a program that would cost better than 2 million a bear back in the late 90's and didn't get it. In 2007 a Griz was taken in the area he was so certain needed our interference to bring them back.
 
N

nihoa

Guest
budgets dont equal take home pay. ive received plenty of grants for not so trivial amounts but i have to charter boats @ $7,000 - $9,000 A DAY, depending on fuel prices and the vessel, used for up to 20 days on either end of a trip to the field. thats just transport and where did my budget go? when i worked for the nature conservancy of canada it wasnt rare to be making > million dollar land purchases but with over 80% of the annual budget going directly into conservation projects you think the employees saw much of it?? yes, ngos sound the alarm and work hard at fundraising but the $ isnt going into our pockets. or at least not mine.
as for your wolves and bears there are different schools of thought on how to best approach conservation. in the end the bear guy may or may not have been wrong but it still doesnt mean he was in it for the $. either approach still requires technicians to monitor the natural migration or translocated group so im not seeing the money grab you are implying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/386519/asian-pollution-blamed-for-halt-in-global-warming/40#post_3395899
Hansen has pulled in 1.2 million in outside money that we know of. Not exactly chump change and NASA is stonewalling FOIA requests for more. What's the annual budget for Greenpeace? These groups have to keep sounding the alarm for their donations to keep rolling in as well.
I ain't saying they are all corrupt but it certainly isn't rare. Also a lot of stupidity. Why import Canadian wolves into the US? They were coming back on their own so it was a large waste of money. That isn't the opinion of some right wing anti environmentalist, It was from the mouth of the head of the wolf program in Montana. He favored just letting them slowly migrate back in. Same deal with the bear guy. He was pushing for a program that would cost better than 2 million a bear back in the late 90's and didn't get it. In 2007 a Griz was taken in the area he was so certain needed our interference to bring them back.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihoa http:///forum/thread/386519/asian-pollution-blamed-for-halt-in-global-warming/40#post_3395958
budgets dont equal take home pay. ive received plenty of grants for not so trivial amounts but i have to charter boats @ $7,000 - $9,000 A DAY, depending on fuel prices and the vessel, used for up to 20 days on either end of a trip to the field. thats just transport and where did my budget go? when i worked for the nature conservancy of canada it wasnt rare to be making > million dollar land purchases but with over 80% of the annual budget going directly into conservation projects you think the employees saw much of it?? yes, ngos sound the alarm and work hard at fundraising but the $ isnt going into our pockets. or at least not mine.
as for your wolves and bears there are different schools of thought on how to best approach conservation. in the end the bear guy may or may not have been wrong but it still doesnt mean he was in it for the $. either approach still requires technicians to monitor the natural migration or translocated group so im not seeing the money grab you are implying.
Where the species can reintroduce itself we should never interfere.
Point on all of this is do you REALLY think these people are going to downplay the "importance" of their program when they know the competition for funds? Ain't gonna happen. There is plenty of motive to hype it and we've already seen a couple exposed over the warming deal. How about Al (How green's my valley) Gore? He travels the globe promoting CO2 caused warming while at the same time owning a company that trades carbon credits.
One interesting part of the law allows outside groups to sue the feds to stop a project they don't like. Any change to say a logging project is considered a win for the group suing who is then allowed to recover their costs. You have lawyers who didn't pass the bar until the 3 or 4th time out that bill the government hundreds of dollars an hour for their time. Like I said, It's big business.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihoa http:///forum/thread/386519/asian-pollution-blamed-for-halt-in-global-warming/40#post_3395895
ive had lots of grants. grants come from all sorts of places and while there is certainly pressure in some cases to produce a product that might then result in another grant there are checks and balances that prevent people from doing that and not getting caught. if you publish your work your methods, analysis, and results are all there for folk to see and you will get called out pretty quick for fudging the process.
some slip through the cracks, there are lots of bad scientists just like there are bad dentists, mechanics, and tank owners. i had an argument with a creationist once who kept repeating jeffrey dahmer was an atheist evolutionist. well hitler was a christian so what? there are bad apples in every crowd and you can air one anothers sides skeletons till the cows come home but that doesnt settle arguments. in science you have disagreement in all fields on all subjects. if you want you can find lots of climate scientists who dont believe we are playing a role or disagree on the magnitude of the problem but it isnt the opinion of the majority.
The problem is, that these "bad apples" as you so describe aren't the fringe of the science community. They're the east anglia's of the world...
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Regarding global warming:
1. It was proven all of the "most respected" scientists were doctoring data and lying to the public because we "wouldn't understand"- the proof is in their own emails.
2. These same dirtbags have now been proven by this NOAA study to have been lying about the temperature rising the 1.5F in the last 10 years.
The earth has been far warmer in the past and far cooler. There is no scientific way to prove if in this tiny span of time we are having a naturally occurring warm up or cool down.
3. If you read the link I put up, you will see several of the most prominent global warming hoax scientists have said they will use the environment to institute socialism and change society. One of them is quoted as lamenting the destruction of the Soviet Union and vows to use environmentalism to do what Russia could not-spread socialism throughout the world.
4. Al Gore has made millions trading carbon credits and will make billions if this global warming hoax is forced on American industry.
So for me, the question "why are these scientists doing this" should be directed at you koolaid drinkers. Why after all this PROOF of malfeasance would you believe these dirtbags?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to how the increase in CO2 can cause warming. It's claimed the increased CO2 traps more infrared radiation caused by the warming of the Earth's surface which would otherwise radiate out into space. Well infrared is the most effective wavelength at heating objects so that makes sense. EXCEPT that increased CO2 also prevents more of the infrared radiation from the sun from reaching the planet's surface in the first place. Seems to me increased CO2 would result in less initial surface heating but then cause more heat to be held in so there would be little or no change in temperature, perhaps even a decrease......
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
About 10% of solar radiation in in the long infrared wavelength and a high percentage of that is absorbed by CO2 before ever hitting the ground. the rest of the infrared, visible, UV, etc is not absorbed by CO2 and passes through. So, you are correct, only 80% or so of the infrared light actually strikes the Earth. After striking the ground about 20% of that light heats the ground to the point that it emits infrared radiation with a long wavelength. Most of the light still is converted to infrared radiation, but not of a wavelength long enough to be trapped by CO2.
The planet Venus is an excellent example of how CO2 traps heat.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/386519/asian-pollution-blamed-for-halt-in-global-warming/40#post_3396182
About 10% of solar radiation in in the long infrared wavelength and a high percentage of that is absorbed by CO2 before ever hitting the ground. the rest of the infrared, visible, UV, etc is not absorbed by CO2 and passes through. So, you are correct, only 80% or so of the infrared light actually strikes the Earth. After striking the ground about 20% of that light heats the ground to the point that it emits infrared radiation with a long wavelength. Most of the light still is converted to infrared radiation, but not of a wavelength long enough to be trapped by CO2.
The planet Venus is an excellent example of how CO2 traps heat.
Yeah, CO2, Clouds, Methane and a couple others. Just seem to me that once you have a certain level of GH gases increasing or decreasing the concentrations aren't going to make a tinkers damn when it comes to global temperature. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution CO2 has increased like 30%. Methane 150% and methane is more than 20 times more potent a GH gas but they go after CO2....... Guess it's because places like China and South America are responsible for a lot of Methane and they aren't STUPID enough to fall for cap and trade there.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/386519/asian-pollution-blamed-for-halt-in-global-warming/40#post_3396441
Well, so far the volcanoes haven't agreed to cap & trade either.
Oh but you see the valcanoes also emit dust so that doesn't matter. I've done this dance with the church of the global fanatics before. The dust can remain in the atmosphere under perfect conditions for up to 18 months. But they fail to mention how long the CO2 will remain LOL!
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
The science behind global warming is untenable. It is so faulty that it cannot be scientifically defended, so that's why the scientists and their sycophants have to resort to name calling and impugning the intelligence of those who disagree and those who point out the faulty data and absolute deception used by the "scientists". Of course I would expect one government supported scientist to defend other government supported scientist. That is the main reason the global warming hoax has persisted even though it has been scientifically disproven time after time. One government supported scientist sees his own self-interest in the debate and will continue the lies to ensure their government teet project isn't the next to be carefully scrutinized.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I believe the planet has gotten warmer
Ever since the last ice age. I guess that was conservatives fault too.
 
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