Auto Bailot Just Failed!

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2873485
The Unions killed Detroit. Plain and simple.
That pretty much sums it up.....

And crimzy, just because my state is not an "auto manufacturing" state, does not mean that "it hasn't happened to me". My area is heavily dependant on new home construction, including my two co's, but the market has run bone dry. Builders are going bankrupt in record numbers, and I don't see the Gov. over here handing out money. Their finan. bailout hasn't done squat for the local building industry, but the workers around here didn't expect that it would.
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2873485
The Unions killed Detroit. Plain and simple.

i worked as a union member (local 1262) for 5 years. never again would i go union.
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2873496
iam undecided about the bailout. imo, this is about to brake the unions. but what people dont realize when the union wages and retirements go down, so is everyone elses.
how so? union wages are not a "standard" for which others are compared.
Originally Posted by 1journeyman

http:///forum/post/2873511
What people seem to be overlooking is that the Auto Industry, in its present form, is doomed. We float them 14 billion dollars and 2 years from now they will be back asking for more handouts...
Folks, we live in the 21st century. The world is one giant, interconnected, marketplace. If your business is not competitive it will fail. If your employer is not competitive you need to start bettering yourself for a career move.

i agree, which is why i am pro-failure for the big 3. it hurts for me to say that, because i know folks both laid off and retired from GM Linden NJ plant. but the fact is they (the corporations) allowed themselves to be put into this situation by the union. this should have been stopped a long time ago, especially when jap cars were considered junk. now that its a global market, there is more competition.
survival of the fittest has transformed into survival of the fiscally responsible.
spending is good when the times are good, but just be prepared when the times arent.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Unfortunately though Fish Master that only looks at a small piece of the puzzle.
How many good paying jobs have left the country because of Unions? Sure, for the select people that have jobs there wages may be better, but how many are not working the best jobs they are qualified for because Unions crippled a business and drove it away?
The best fix is to let Capitalism run its course. Necessity breeds inventiveness. Drop wages, file chapt 11, restructure, and put some of those vastly overpaid corporate minds to work inventing a product that the world can't live without.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2873536
like i said ,iam undecided. i agree with you jorney, they will be back. the problem is when they get they money, they are still not going to sell cars. with the way the economy is, people still arent going to buy cars.
The big 3 are not the only auto manufactures experiencing a slow down in purchases, yet our big three are the only ones not turning a profit and asking for a hand out.Whether they get a loan or not, they will still HAVE to cut jobs because of the economic slow down, if they don't they will be right back in the same boat in months....with an even larger defecit. So saving jobs SHOULD NOT BE THE REASON to give a bailout.
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2873511
Folks, we live in the 21st century. The world is one giant, interconnected, marketplace. If your business is not competitive it will fail. If your employer is not competitive you need to start bettering yourself for a career move.
could we use the brick/mortar lfs vs the online store analogy for comparison?
 

fish master

Member
something we should look at is walmart. walmart has caused companies, union and non union to take their companies overseas,because of the dirt cheap wages. we have lost a lot of job because of walmart
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2873546
The best fix is to let Capitalism run its course. Necessity breeds inventiveness. Drop wages, file chapt 11, restructure, and put some of those vastly overpaid corporate minds to work inventing a product that the world can't live without.
take for example
  • sam walton
    malcolm mclean
these are just 2 folk who saw the need or an open door and ran with it.
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2873552
something we should look at is walmart. walmart has caused companies, union and non union to take their companies overseas,because of the dirt cheap wages. we have lost a lot of job because of walmart
because those companies that could not be competetive had to take necessary steps to remain in business.
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2873552
something we should look at is walmart. walmart has caused companies, union and non union to take their companies overseas,because of the dirt cheap wages. we have lost a lot of job because of walmart
then if you dont take steps to fix your business you dont deserve to be in business.
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2873559
its hard to compete for3 dollars a day wages
low backend costs = low retail costs = less the consumer spends per item = more overall spending consumer can do.
i dont understand why more people dont get it. seriously.
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
say you own your business. im not talking mom/pop shop.
for a corporation.
you can pay $2 an hour for production, or you can pay someone here $11-12 per hour here to do it. which do you choose?
 

spanko

Active Member
Just heard the union president Ron Gettelfinger on the radio say If forced to General Motors will not go into Chapter 11, they will start liquidation.
Well all I have to say to Ron Gettelfinger is
You stupid schmuck then why did you tell the congress that if the union were to continue to give anything it would not be immediate! Get your head out from
 

nina&noah

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2873397
Crimzy, maybe you should read this article released in 2005 before you start defending the validaty of some of these jobs. Keep in mnd the schooling and money YOU had to dish out to make the pay you do. Then compare that to the GED holding wages these guys earn.
National Review:
Massive job cuts at General Motors, America's largest carmaker — coupled with the bankruptcy of Delphi, America's biggest autoparts maker — have provoked predictable handwringing from liberal pundits who worry that America is "losing its manufacturing base." But the wrenching change now buffeting the auto industry defies the usual press formulas. Just listen to Steve Miller a turnaround specialist who is steering Delphi's restructuring process. He exploded the myth of America's "endangered" union manufacturing jobs at his October press conference announcing Delphi's move into Chapter 11: "We cannot continue to pay $65 an hour for someone to cut the grass and remain competitive."
Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.
But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.
"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."
The coming months will be painful for many American autoworkers. Accustomed to a certain lifestyle, they will see their wages cut in half, jeopardizing second homes, college tuitions, and car payments. One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).
It is an opportune time for political leadership to step to the plate and speak with candor, but the signs are not encouraging.
- November 29, 2005, Labor Pains, Detroit needs to play by market rules. By Henry Payne
Source(s):
The Indianapolis Star and the National Review

I read this entire article. All I got from it was that the people who cut the grass make 20K more than I do as a teacher with a masters degree and 8 years of experience. I won't even comment on the forklift driver. The education system in this country is a joke!

Sorry, I know that should be a different thread, but I had to vent.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2873559
its hard to compete for3 dollars a day wages
Which is why you don't try... Americans are never going to work that cheap.
American workers must
better themselves to become an asset to their company instead of a millstone.
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
sorry to be so strong on this, but my last job was a sourcer for a catalog company. it was my job to take items here and see if i can find a cheaper source for them.
a good example was this one particular item. it was a walker tray.
made here in the us, the company wanted 7.55 per tray. i found a source overseas that would make them for 1.12 each. it cost .51 to land it here, making my cost 1.63 per unit.
i can pay 7.55 per unit (us freight was approx .20 per unit, or .22 ... something like that) or 1.63 per unit.
which would you choose?
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2873572
Just heard the union president Ron Gettelfinger on the radio say If forced to General Motors will not go into Chapter 11, they will start liquidation.
Well all I have to say to Ron Gettelfinger is
You stupid schmuck then why did you tell the congress that if the union were to continue to give anything it would not be immediate! Get your head out from

Why would ghettofinger say that. I'd expect someone like the CEO from GM say that...
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by nina&noah
http:///forum/post/2873575
I read this entire article. All I got from it was that the people who cut the grass make 20K more than I do as a teacher with a masters degree and 8 years of experience. I won't even comment on the forklift driver. The education system in this country is a joke!

Sorry, I know that should be a different thread, but I had to vent.
Again, Teacher's Union...
 
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