Back to the Draft?

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daniel411

Guest
Awhile back I came accross this write up:
"There is pending legislation in the House and
Senate(twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time
the program's initiation so the draft can begin at
early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004
presidential election. The administration is quietly
trying to get these bills passed NOW, while the
public's attention is on the elections.
Even those voters who currently support U.S. actions
abroad may still object to this move, knowing their
own children or grandchildren will not have a say
about whether to fight.
(Not that it should make a difference, but this
plan,among other
things eliminates higher education as a shelter Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service
until the end of their current semester. Seniors
would have until the end of the academic year and
includes women in the draft -- also crossing into
Canada has already been made very difficult.)
ACTIONS, ACTIONS, ACTIONS:
Please send this on to all the parents and teachers
you know, and all the aunts and uncles,
grandparents,godparents.... And let your children know
-- it's their future, and they can be a powerful voice
for change! Please also write to your representatives
to ask them why they aren't telling their constituents
about these bills -- and write to newspapers and other
media outlets to ask them why they're not covering
this important story.
*********
The DRAFT
$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective
Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military
draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. SSS
must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the
system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready
for activation.
Please see website: www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html
to view the SSS Annual Performance Plan - Fiscal Year
2004.
The Pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to
fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070
appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an
unpopular election year topic, military experts and
influential members of Congress are suggesting that if
Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in
Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on
"terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no
choice but to draft.
http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle5146.htm
www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html
Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and H.R. 163
forward this year,
http://www.hslda.org/Legislation/Na...S89/default.asp
entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003,
"To provide for the common defense by requiring that
all young persons [age 18--26] in the United
States,including women, perform a period of military
service
or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the
national defense and homeland security, and for otherpurposes."
These active bills currently sit in the Committee on
Armed Services.
Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those
from the Vietnam era remember. College and Canada will
not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the US
signed a "Smart Border Declaration," which could be
used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by
Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, John Manley, and
US Homeland Security Director, Gov. Tom Ridge, the
declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements,
among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of
people entering and departing each country. Reforms
aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender
and class lines also eliminates higher education as a
shelter.
Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service
until the end of their current semester. Seniors
would have until the end of the academic year"
I glanced over it, looked up some links to verify parts of it, but mostly just "saved" it for an indepth review later on when I have more time as ol' Rumsfields been pretty vocal about wanting to maintain a "professional" army, not a enslaved military. Well, after seeing this article... I think that I'm going to have to look into all of this a bit more

Nader tells youths to brace for draft!

http://washingtontimes.com/national/...4403-9384r.htm
 

moraym

Active Member
I love when people try to stir up emotions during election years, it's so fun. There is a reason it said "PENDING" legislation. There has been pending legislation for over a decade concerning state-sponsored medicine for everyone. Doesn't mean it's going to happen in the next few months. Does this mean the administration is quietly trying to push this through? Not at all. Just because someone introduces a bill into the House, does not mean the administration is pushing it through quietly, trying to pull the wool over your eyes. There is a lot of legislation right now that is "pending" and neither party agrees with it. Why? Because representatives introduce things all the time that they know won't get passed, but that gain them favor with their constituents or party leaders. Under Clinton's term, there was "pending" legislation to legalize pot, no one ever thought it was secretly being pushed through the house, it just fell by the wayside along with hundreds of other forgotten projects.
So before everyone gets all worked up, at least wait until this "secret" bill gets on the floor and is discussed. It's still bottled up in committee somewhere, and not much comes out of there during election year. And even if it did get on the floor, remember you are dealing with an election year, and you're not going to find support to deal with an issue like that, even from Democrats or Republicans who favor the idea. In the information-filled world we live in, you can't secretly push something through the House like this, it would be aired, so the fact that more hasn't been made of this only makes it more obvious it isn't THAT close to happening. No near. Nader likes to mince facts with speculation and call for public outrage, I'd expect nothing less from him, he's good at that.
I'm aware the 'aquarium' is a talk-about-whatever type of forum, but I just hate when people turn it into a political arena. Honestly, no one really changes their vote by reading stuff like that.
Actually, it's scary to think of it that way. Because every election of the last TEN have been predicted a year beforehand by just looking at economic trends and voter registration. That is scary. It's scary to realize just how little campaigning matters, if you can so accurately predict results that far ahead with such accuracy.
Honestly, I really advise reading 'BEFORE THE VOTE' by James E. Campbell and James C. Garand. And then read several more books for a balanced perspective, never trust just one book. But then again, people will probably just debate the merits of predicting elections and not believe me if they don't want to. God I love election years. The only years when ignorance really is bliss.:D

Now...flame away....
 

tony detroit

Active Member
Ummm Have you not noticed the armed services advertising lately??? That's a dead giveaway. I've seen more Marines billboards, the Go Army drag race team car, etc. More radio commercials every day. I've seen more armed services advertising lately than budweiser commercials. This has been in the works for a while, and NO we are not in Iraq for stopping the spread of terrorism, we are in Iraq for money, plain and simple. Believe what you want, the mainstream news is a joke, all political. Personally I think the draft IS on its way.
 

moraym

Active Member
The mainstream news is political, but that's a whole other issue in and of itself. The mainstream news is an organization where statistically many of the lead editors/owners are slanted to the right whereas most of the reporters and writers are statistically slanted to the left. Through multiple studies of newspaper articles, the most popular newspapers are slanted slightly more to the left. Case in point, the popular difference between the left Washington Post and its red-headed stepchild, the less common right-winged Washington Times. That's probably the most read-of case to use. Same with television stations. Why do you think the President watches Fox News? It's the station that loves the right.
So if something were to come out that is bad for the current administration, the news would jump on it, as the news tends to favor the left in years of elections. Again, not 100% obviously, but anyone who researches media bias sees the same trends over the past few decades, especially as internet media takes off. So I don't see how the mainstream media being political has any relevance in this, it's always been a joke, and I don't recall every saying anything about that.
And you can definitely believe what you want, but if you think increased Armed Forces advertising and a draft are correlated, you're really reaching for straws. I'd be more worried if they stopped advertising, considering advertising builds a volunteer army, the opposite of building a draft Army. Actually, it's a dead giveaway of one thing, that the military advertising is working, you're noticing it. Actually, the increased military advertising has been happening far before Iraq, it's been an on-going push by the Armed Forces. My brother was actually involved in that campaign, and it started a few Super Bowls ago (come to think of it, I just saw a HUGE military placement ad in Anger Management, and that movie is a couple years old), so this is hardly a new campaign to get you in Iraq. But hey, whatever, causation and correlation are never really used in the same sentence when talking politics, that's what makes discussions so retarded. Come to think of it, I've been seeing more Atkins-friendly food ads lately than I have beer ads. This may mean the administration is "secretly" pushing through another prohibition act, and trying to outlaw fat kids.
 

moraym

Active Member
NO we are not in Iraq for stopping the spread of terrorism, we are in Iraq for money, plain and simple
I love how people feel the need to bring this up no matter what.
Did I mention reasons for being in Iraq anywhere in my post? Come to think of it, is it mentioned anywhere in this thread? I love it when people use Iraq as a platform. God forbid I say anything you don't agree with, I'm painted as a Republican who thinks we're in Iraq for terrorist purposes. So I don't agree with how "pending" something is, that must mean I'm one of them right-wingers.
I don't care why you think we're in Iraq, I don't care why we are in Iraq, it's really not a point of contention in this thread. Actually, most things in your post weren't in contention in the thread.
You have your views on why we're in Iraq.
I have my views on why we're in Iraq.
And my brother who's been in Iraq for a year, got a month off, and is going back for three more months of Thursday, probably has his own views on why we're in Iraq.
But that doesn't exactly make it relevant. I don't think painting a picture of why one thinks we're there has anything to do with the draft.
So i think I'll go get dinner, and watch the news, which you somehow feel shields the Republican party and the administration even though most everyone agrees in the contrary. I enjoy watching the left-media bag on the administration, it keeps a lot of things in check. If you think the media is protecting the administration, just read the main articles of the Washington Post for the last week. Cover-up indeed....
 

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by MorayM
Did I mention reasons for being in Iraq anywhere in my post?

No, and I was not necessarily talking to you, but the topic of this thread is bring back the draft, mostly because of our being in Iraq, so I though it necessary to show my opinion.
 

tangman99

Active Member
Hey, nothing wrong with being a Republican. I've got my "autographed" picure of George Bush in my cube at work. Of course I never did remember to send that $1000.00 donation they wanted for it.
 

moraym

Active Member
You got that one too.

I think I have two. My dad was in the Army 30+ years, and now my brother, so I get quite a few autographed pictures asking for money.
Now if only the Redskins would start sending me stuff, I'd open the checkbook.:D
 

fishman830

Active Member
i knew there was gonna be a draft in the near future....only got
about 3 years 'till that could be me
i remember my mom talking ot me a few days ago.. Jim, if there ever is a draft we're going to canada.. i asked why..
truth is i'm not gonna be a draft dodger..
 

vyperone

Member
Fishman was to go... A true patriot.
What a bunch of "spoiled", "it's all about me", "self centered" jerks this country has. Imagine back when this country was founded if we had a bunch of wimps and draft dogders... Where would our country be today... It disgusts me to see anyone in this country who would run rather than fight... I have three children and I would never even suggest they run like cowards to Canada to avoid doing their duty for their country even when its not their country they are fighting for. How pathetic and unpatriotic can you possibly be? You are willing to suck our country dry of all its spoils and riches but when it comes to protecting it and serving you turn and run. I can only hope someone shoots you in the back as you do run.
I'm sorry but it really burns my a$$ when cowards start talking about running to Canada to avoid their patriotic duty. I served my country willingly and it was by far the best learning experience for me. I fully support a draft. The worst thing that ever happened to this country was the downsizing of our military forces which by the way has put us in the predictament that we are in.... Not enough troops...
Now let the flames begin...
 

lovethesea

Active Member
When I asked someone I know about this, this was his statement.....obviously he speaks from experience..
I think it will give the youth of this country a chance to serve their
county and to experience what others have done before them. It give
them the chance to be cold, hot, tired, frightened and hungry. It will give
them the chance to meet all walks of life. It will give the chance to
live on a Pvt's pay and eat in a mess hall with 100's of others and eat
what is served to them or go hungry. No ENTRES. It will give them the
chance to hear a bullet snap over their head or to get up a 0400 and
stand at attention in the cold. When you are in uniform every one is the
same. It will give our obese out of shape youth a chance to get into
shape. It will make them responsible for their actions or suffer the wrath
of a Sgt.
The youth of this country are spoiled and whine when they don't have
the latest what ever. They will not be allowed to have their H2 or
Escalade. They will have to walk or take post transportation. They will be
home sick and miss their loved ones' but so is every one else that they
live with. It will force them to grow up
 
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daniel411

Guest
Vyper, you might want to read his last Fishmans letter again, he states hes not going to dodge the draft. As for America's spoils and riches, our founding fathers knew where and outlined where our riches come from. While I won't go into it here, I'll just ask everyone to ponder how much longer our economy will be blessed with its prosperity.
Originally posted by Fishman830
.. truth is i'm not gonna be a draft dodger..

Wow, this really went in a different direction than I thought it would. I stated that this wasn't even something I felt worthwhile to research indepthly for a long time. Mike, id be willing to discuss your points privately if you want. Neversummer411NOSPAM@yahoo.com
Lovethesea, that was really a nice perspective.
 

vyperone

Member
Daniel, my first comment was meant to praise Fishman for NOT being a draft dodger... Sorry I was not clear on that. In re-reading it, the comment might of come off as being sarcastic.
The rest of my comments go to those who would run like cowards... I apologize for the obvious nerve this touches in me... To me it just negates the awesome thankless job those that do serve and those that have died for our freedom. I could write pages and pages of this but let me get off my soapbox...
Again, Fishman it makes me proud to see someone who would serve rather than run... Great Job! :D
 
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daniel411

Guest
No need to apologize Vyper, I'm sure most of us atleast understand/respect if not agree with your view point on dodging the draft. As the reasons for doing it are "normally" purely selfish. Suppose that would be a different debate though. Oh, yeah it was just the direction of the following paragraph that implied, atleast to me, that you were being sarcastic over that comment.
Additional comment:
If it means anything, I'm still unsure whether I would go or not if their was a draft. Loseing my house, bikes, or life really isn't what causes me concern about it though.
 

vyperone

Member
Our prosperity will continue only with the help and support of it's people and our allies. Unfortunately prosperity does come from war, famine, death and destruction. Without it we would not need to continue to grow, thus demand would decline, then prosperity.
Simply put, if we could compare it to a fish store. If the fish store is in a place where there are hobbyists who need fish, then the store prospers. However, if all the hobbyist have fish and want no more, then the store fails... but if fish die, the need for fish goes on and the store continues to prosper... I know this is hard to compare to a global economy but in laymans terms it applies....
If the US enacted the draft such that all 18 year olds had to spend three years in the military, the US jobless rate would decline. How much? Who knows? How long? Who Knows? Of course these decline in the jobless rate would be for only three years at first, until the first wave of draftees completed their obligation and left the military. As a side benefit enacting a draft may just cause the fat and lazy cowards to head north. Let them become someone elses problem.
Instead of a bunch of beer drinking, fat 18 year olds, we would have a workforce of dedicated, trained and motivated young adults ready to take on the world. I speak from experience. I just turned 17 when I enlisted. Had not a clue of what I wanted from life, what I wanted to be or what Iwanted to do. Twenty years later I still don't know what I want to be when I finally do grow up, but I am a responsible adult, who pays taxes, has never been without a job for more than 3 weeks and is disciplined to do right by others and to protect those that can not protect themselves. I think the draft would go a long way to helping our youth become responsible and to understand that there is more to life than owning an Escalade with a license plate that reads PMPDADY with 24 inches spinners... By the way I would love to have one... :happy:
I don't know what I would do if my child was drafted and God forbid he died. I know I would be proud of him for doing the right thing. I know he would rather fight then run. This country has got to stop thinking of only the individual and start thinking about the good of the whole. We all make sacrifices everyday, some more than others....
Step up to the plate and do your part to help...
Just as a disclaimer here... I am not trying to offend anyone, just wake a few people up.... :thinking:
 
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daniel411

Guest
Vyper, excellent post!
I want to retort that but my entire stance rests on a faith that prosperity doesn't come from our skills, intelligence, or the support of our allies but from God. If you disagree with that, there is no point in my writing. If you don't disagree with that, well than I suppose we should take that discussion privately in email. My address is up above in this thread.
 
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