Bad News Please Read This

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2865274
Really?
When was the last time you saw an Elkhorn, available for sell? ANYWHERE???
I hope no one does see them for sale
ELKHORN and STAGHORN corals have been listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, the first corals ever to receive such protection based on rapid declines.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2865274
Really?
When was the last time you saw an Elkhorn, available for sell? ANYWHERE???
Well i can tell you two sites that have elkhorn for trade or for sale but i can not give names or links but one alone ends in .org
and a couple of people have elk and staghorn for sale.
My god man, what cause i called out that some numb nut will try that sale tactic you get bent?
I like the feistiness
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2865666
I hope no one does see them for sale
ELKHORN and STAGHORN corals have been listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, the first corals ever to receive such protection based on rapid declines.
yeah but what about people who have them already? Its going to be an excuse to bump price. Not like the goverment is gonna round of aquacultured frags and say put em back.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2865907
yeah but what about people who have them already? Its going to be an excuse to bump price. Not like the goverment is gonna round of aquacultured frags and say put em back.
I don’t think we are talking about coral that is already in the loop. It’s the harvesting of coral that is endangered that need to be stopped
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2865974
I don’t think we are talking about coral that is already in the loop. It’s the harvesting of coral that is endangered that need to be stopped
I agree 100% with this. No need to be collecting coral that is having a hard time. I was talking about the scumbag who finds this out and ups the price for a frag of it.
Thats all i was getting at.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2866452
I agree 100% with this. No need to be collecting coral that is having a hard time. I was talking about the scumbag who finds this out and ups the price for a frag of it.
Thats all i was getting at.
and point well taken
 

madwabbit23

Member
I personally disagree with *most of* the "global warming" theories, as do my senior professors. But they "acknowledge that the climate is adjusting, and that ocean and polar temperature changes have fluctuated a tenth of a degree and will continue to rise"
Why? So they get grants (aka money) to continue researching the theory.
I care about the environment, but this planet is billions of years old and annual temperature logs have only been kept for the past 200 years. 200 years of data against Xbillions in existence. Maybe the natural order of the planet's survival is to raise temperature a tenth of a degree every few centuries? My point is that when you put our current technological findings into the grand picture...we have very weak and insufficient data.
Fast forward to 600page reports, and you have a puzzled eco-maniac suggesting armageddon theories to justify his years of non conclusive research...which no one possesses enough of to base ANY opinion one way or the other.
However, with regards to mans physical impact on oceans reefs, fish, and eco balances: Yes, I think there are multiple issues ranging from residential and commercial erosion, oil/natural gas collection (and mistakes), harvesting of specific, and sometimes endangered species of coral/fish/mammals...the list goes on.
Yes, I think the world as a whole is destroying earths most precious resource, and its delicate environments. No, I do not think that my SUV is going to cause florida to be underwater or california to become an island. (within the next few million years).
anyway ...just my .02.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Do most of your senior professors really think most of the research on global warming is a scare tactic to elicit more funding for research. If you don’t mind would you tell me the school you attend
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not so sure, frankly. Coming from a place that has the only reefs in the continental USA, Florida Keys, I think there is more to it then global warming. Closer to home. Like pollution coming from various sources. The dead zone in the Gulf....also water pollution, not global warming.
One source of pollution, trying to build a city where there should only be swamps---New Orleans. There is so much more to it.
I don't jump on the global warming bandwagon. Not to say that humans don't produce all of the pollution on the planet, but its just too easy these days to blame global warming. And it is very much a "political" issue, as we play with more and more regulation in the name of global warming.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Beth after reading your post a number of times I must admit I don’t quite understand what your position is. Are you saying that the green house effect is not taking into consideration the human factor? If so I would like to submit
Growth in industry, agriculture, and transportation since the Industrial Revolution has produced additional quantities of the natural greenhouse gases plus chlorofluorocarbons and other gases, augmenting the thermal blanket. It is generally accepted that this increase in the quantity of greenhouse gases is trapping more heat and increasing global temperatures, making a process that has been beneficial to life potentially disruptive and harmful. During the 20th cent., the atmospheric temperature rose 1.1°F (0.6°C), and sea level rose several inches. Some projected, longer-term results of global warming include melting of polar ice, with a resulting rise in sea level and coastal flooding; disruption of drinking water supplies dependent on snow melts; profound changes in agriculture due to climate change; extinction of species as ecological niches disappear; more frequent tropical storms; and an increased incidence of tropical diseases.
Among factors that may be contributing to global warming are the burning of coal and petroleum products (sources of carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, ozone); deforestation, which increases the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; methane gas released in animal waste; and increased cattle production, which contributes to deforestation, methane production, and use of fossil fuels.
A 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, based on a three-year study, termed global warming unequivocal and said that most of the change was most likely due to human activities.
 

madwabbit23

Member
Joe - to answer your question directly, they consider Global Warming exactly what it is: A theory, hypothesis, and an idea. They accept grants that are approved by our taxpayers and government to "research" the theory. There is nothing unethical or immoral about it, its just modern science.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
I am just confused over the fact that if we take global warming as the name implies (the warming of the earth) and the average surface temperature of the earth has risen by more than 1 degree Fahrenheit since 1900. It seems to me that this rise is a fact and not a theory or hypostasis. And the changes the earth is going through do to the rise in temp. is also fact not theory.
 

madwabbit23

Member
Accurate satellite, balloon and mountain top observations made over the last three decades have not shown any significant change in the long term rate of increase in global temperatures. Average ground station readings do show a mild warming of 0.6 to 0.8C over the last 100 years, which is well within the natural variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural areas ("land use effects").
Conclusion: There has been no catastrophic warming recorded.
Oh, and my SUV is going to kill us all, right? ...keep reading joe.

Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons, human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the atmosphere has increased. The RATE of growth during this period has also increased from about 0.2% per year to the present rate of about 0.4% per year,which growth rate has now been constant for the past 25 years. However, there is no proof that CO2 is the main driver of global warming. As measured in ice cores dated over many thousands of years, CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the temperature has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming.
Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO2 as a result.
- These exerpts are from the published report in the international climatology report, 2006.(i.e researched, written, and published by some of the highest rated climatologists, geologists, and meteorologists in the world.
With one more point: The effects of global warming are "FACT", as you so put it. ...well, heres one more for ya joe.

The media’s constant misuse of climate change to promote the hype that we are experiencing a sudden massive increase in global warming, was well illustrated by an article that appeared in The Daily Mail, on Friday June 15th 2007.
Columnist, Baz Bamigboye’s ‘Chilling Tale of Global Warming, an article on polar bears, quotes: ‘According to statistics, the worldwide polar bear population is around 20,000 and declining at the rate of 22 per cent a year.
Chilling stuff indeed – if it were true.
However, according to the World Wildlife Fund, about 20 distinct polar bear populations currently exist, accounting for approximately 22,000 polar bears worldwide. Of those distinct populations only two, representing about 16.4 percent of the total population, are decreasing. At the same time, 10 populations representing approximately 45.4 percent of the total population are stable, and 2 populations representing about 13.6 percent of the total number of polar bears are increasing. The status of the remaining populations is unknown. But then facts do not make for such dramatic bylines, do they?
Now, go out and find an internationally recognized annual published record stating SCIENTIFIC PROOF that global warming exists.
PS Joe - If you find it, make sure and call Congress, because as of today they still acknowledge that it is a "theory" with no "absolute" fundamental evidence.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Madwabbit23
http:///forum/post/2869116
Accurate satellite, balloon and mountain top observations made over the last three decades have not shown any significant change in the long term rate of increase in global temperatures. Average ground station readings do show a mild warming of 0.6 to 0.8C over the last 100 years, which is well within the natural variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural areas ("land use effects").
Conclusion: There has been no catastrophic warming recorded.
Oh, and my SUV is going to kill us all, right? ...keep reading joe.

Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons, human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the atmosphere has increased. The RATE of growth during this period has also increased from about 0.2% per year to the present rate of about 0.4% per year,which growth rate has now been constant for the past 25 years. However, there is no proof that CO2 is the main driver of global warming. As measured in ice cores dated over many thousands of years, CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the temperature has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming.
Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO2 as a result.
- These exerpts are from the published report in the international climatology report, 2006.(i.e researched, written, and published by some of the highest rated climatologists, geologists, and meteorologists in the world.
With one more point: The effects of global warming are "FACT", as you so put it. ...well, heres one more for ya joe.

The media’s constant misuse of climate change to promote the hype that we are experiencing a sudden massive increase in global warming, was well illustrated by an article that appeared in The Daily Mail, on Friday June 15th 2007.
Columnist, Baz Bamigboye’s ‘Chilling Tale of Global Warming, an article on polar bears, quotes: ‘According to statistics, the worldwide polar bear population is around 20,000 and declining at the rate of 22 per cent a year.
Chilling stuff indeed – if it were true.
However, according to the World Wildlife Fund, about 20 distinct polar bear populations currently exist, accounting for approximately 22,000 polar bears worldwide. Of those distinct populations only two, representing about 16.4 percent of the total population, are decreasing. At the same time, 10 populations representing approximately 45.4 percent of the total population are stable, and 2 populations representing about 13.6 percent of the total number of polar bears are increasing. The status of the remaining populations is unknown. But then facts do not make for such dramatic bylines, do they?
Now, go out and find an internationally recognized annual published record stating SCIENTIFIC PROOF that global warming exists.
PS Joe - If you find it, make sure and call Congress, because as of today they still acknowledge that it is a "theory" with no "absolute" fundamental evidence.
Lets start with your definition of global warming I mean if its only a theory then that theory has to have a definition
 

madwabbit23

Member
Ive voiced my opinion on the subject. If you want to know how I define the global warming theory, re read my posts.
Im done guys, dont wanna get into a daily discussion over it - I just hate to see eco maniacs spreading their armageddon theories all over and scaring the hell out of people that dont have any sense to know better.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
More propaganda on global warming Coral bleaching happens when symbiotic algae living in symbiosis with living coral polyps (and providing them their distinctive colors) are expelled. The whitening coral may die with subsequent impacts on the reef ecosystem, and thus fisheries, regional tourism and coastal protection. Coral bleaching is linked to sea temperatures above normal summer maxima and to solar radiation. Bleaching may take place on localized and mass scales – there was an extensive bleaching event in 1998 and 2002 likely linked to El Niño events.
"An increase in frequency of coral bleaching may be one of the first tangible environmental effects of global warming," states Dr. Arnold Dekker of Australia's Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization’s (CSIRO) Wealth from Oceans Flagship program.” The concern is that coral reefs might pass a critical bleaching threshold beyond which they are unable to regenerat
and just for the heck of it these are some people that belive global warming exists
1.3 Joint science academies' statement 2008
1.4 Joint science academies’ statement 2007
1.5 Joint science academies’ statement 2005
1.6 Joint science academies’ statement 2001
1.7 International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
1.8 European Academy of Sciences and Arts
1.9 Network of African Science Academies
1.10 National Research Council (US)
1.11 European Science Foundation
1.12 American Association for the Advancement of Science
1.13 Federation of American Scientists
1.14 World Meteorological Organization
1.15 American Meteorological Society
1.16 Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
1.17 Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
1.18 Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
1.19 Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
1.20 International Union for Quaternary Research
1.21 American Quaternary Association
1.22 Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
1.23 International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
1.24 International Union of Geological Sciences
1.25 European Geosciences Union
1.26 Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
1.27 Geological Society of America
1.28 American Geophysical Union
1.29 American Astronomical Society
1.30 American Institute of Physics
1.31 American Physical Society
1.32 American Chemical Society
1.33 American Society for Microbiology
1.34 Institute of Biology (UK)
1.35 World Federation of Public Health Associations
1.36 American College of Preventive Medicine
1.37 American Public Health Association
1.38 American Medical Association
1.39 American Statistical Association
1.40 Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)
1.41 Water Environment Federation
1.42 Chartered Institution of Water and Environmental Management
1.43 Federal Climate Change Science Program (US)
on Climate Change (IPCC) 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2007
 

bpn25

Member
remember there is a BIG difference between global warming and MAN-MADE global warming.
Nobody is doubting that the planet is getting warmer. We may have released a lot of co2, but the oceans have released way more due to the rising sea temp. The rising sea temp. was caused by the sun IMO.
 

appaloosa1

Member
Here is a recent graph published by the IPCC

Deny it all you want, but it is happening and we are a large factor in it. We can already see the effects in disease virulence, hurricane activity, etc. I would love to take a class offered next semester in it, but it just won't fit into my schedule.
 
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