oceanic110
Member
I think Bob's holding his own very well. You go BOB:cheer:
Beaslbob . . . .
- Thread starter 007
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beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Reef_Magic
so bob, ur saying that your tank is gradually increasing its own calciuim levels?
will it eventually get too high?
Hopefully the corraline will explode. that should be an upper limit. And if the calcium goes down then the corraline growth will slow. Kinda self correcting. so I am not worried. besides I could always add some halimedia
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by oceanic110
I think Bob's holding his own very well. You go BOB:cheer:
Aw gosh, shuckie derns, farm out, outta state. :jumping:
:cheer: :cheer: In case it has not been said enough. I learn more from these discussion then may be redily aparent. Sure, I am old school. Sure, these may new concepts to those who are just starting.
but if it had not been for this board, tip, bang, reefnut, nmreef and all these "discussions" I would not have learned about why ph drops, the intertwining of ph calcium, alk, mag and the like.
I built the external refug/sump because of the ideas and pictures on this board. the oyster shell thingie is only because I know of that.
I know you'all get tired of me, and me of you. But at the end of the day all of our systems are better and newbies are really confus** woops have so many options to chose from.
So thanks ya'll. and in return i promise to not report things until they work in my system. (like the crushed oyster shells)
007
Active Member
Originally posted by beaslbob
Large saltwater aquariums miles from the ocean do not have that luxury. Yet they are highly successful. I simply can not believe that they with say a 3 million gallon tank dumps 300,000g of saltwater into the local creak. And according to a post here a denver aquarium uses tap water for all their saltwater tanks including their reefs.
Two things . . . I was very recently at the National aquarium in baltimore. i had the opportunity to speak with one of the engineers there and guess what he told me! They do regular water changes . . .
The removed water gets re-processed . . . not dumped into a local creek.
And as for denver . . . look at where they source water comes from . . . what do you expect. Too bad its not a similar situation across the country.
maroonclownfan
Member
Once the calcium reached saturation it would come out of solution as a bicarbonate precipitate.
I agree with Bob on the plant life and ecosystem, but maybe not on NO water changes, I do a few, that is my preference though.
As for the comment on Ca reactors. I don't know why anyone would buy one? unless maybe you had a tank full of stony corals that required huge amounts of Ca, jmo.
My opinion is that alot of people keep their tanks too sterile. I like the more natural approach. But there are dozens of ways to have a successful tank, so I am not bashing anyone. Just realizing that many different approaches work.
So Bob should be entitled to his position, but caution should be excerised to take anyones word as "The Way" to do things.
Oh ya, I use tap water, no mechanical filtration or skimmer, never test water parameters, seldom do water changes, and use crushed coral in my 3yr old never had a disease or massive die off, 29 gal. tank....knock on wood!
:joy:
Please take any preceived criticism with a grain of salt.
Peace......
I agree with Bob on the plant life and ecosystem, but maybe not on NO water changes, I do a few, that is my preference though.
As for the comment on Ca reactors. I don't know why anyone would buy one? unless maybe you had a tank full of stony corals that required huge amounts of Ca, jmo.
My opinion is that alot of people keep their tanks too sterile. I like the more natural approach. But there are dozens of ways to have a successful tank, so I am not bashing anyone. Just realizing that many different approaches work.
So Bob should be entitled to his position, but caution should be excerised to take anyones word as "The Way" to do things.
Oh ya, I use tap water, no mechanical filtration or skimmer, never test water parameters, seldom do water changes, and use crushed coral in my 3yr old never had a disease or massive die off, 29 gal. tank....knock on wood!
:joy:
Please take any preceived criticism with a grain of salt.
Peace......
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by 007
Two things . . . I was very recently at the National aquarium in baltimore. i had the opportunity to speak with one of the engineers there and guess what he told me! They do regular water changes . . .
The removed water gets re-processed . . . not dumped into a local creek.
thanks and appreciate your input. I was specualting after all. And isn't baltimore right beside the ocean?
And as for denver . . . look at where they source water comes from . . . what do you expect. Too bad its not a similar situation across the country.
now your are speculating LOL. My position is that the worse tap water in the us can be cleaned up by plants and used in any fw or salt tank.
But even with the Denver water, they seem to feel ro/di was required for some fw fish. So it seems that salt requires less restrictive input water parameters.
squidd
Active Member
This is just a "hypothetical" question and not intended as a dig...
Bob, would you feel comfortable, not changing your bath water from week to week...?? Just topping it off with tap and mabe adding some Amazon Swords and well whatever plant life that would "thrive" in fresh water...?? Do you really think thats enough "filtration" to consume all the waste products you would be "producing/adding" to the isolated system...? Assuming you would use a "biodegradeable" soap so as not to purposely poison your plants...would you see a problem with this scenerio...??
Bob, would you feel comfortable, not changing your bath water from week to week...?? Just topping it off with tap and mabe adding some Amazon Swords and well whatever plant life that would "thrive" in fresh water...?? Do you really think thats enough "filtration" to consume all the waste products you would be "producing/adding" to the isolated system...? Assuming you would use a "biodegradeable" soap so as not to purposely poison your plants...would you see a problem with this scenerio...??
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Squidd
This is just a "hypothetical" question and not intended as a dig...
Bob, would you feel comfortable, not changing your bath water from week to week...?? Just topping it off with tap and mabe adding some Amazon Swords and well whatever plant life that would "thrive" in fresh water...?? Do you really think thats enough "filtration" to consume all the waste products you would be "producing/adding" to the isolated system...? Assuming you would use a "biodegradeable" soap so as not to purposely poison your plants...would you see a problem with this scenerio...??
Of course there is a problem with a 5'9" person relying on plant action to cleanse a 6' tub. But the clean water that come in through that tap in each bath has been cleaned by plant action over a larger area.
Would I be comfortable in an air conditioned enclosed building covering 100's of miles chocked full of plant life with lots of sun light, and with food added each day. You betcha.
Your analogy simply does not apply to say a 55g with 5-6 fish, chocked full of plant life when only evaporative water is replaced.
squidd
Active Member
I agree, the "bathtub" example is a bit small, but then again your "air conditioned enclosed building covering 100's of miles chocked full of plant life with lots of sun light, and with food added each day." is excessivly optimistic...
We could run the numbers for volumetric comparison, but I'm thinking more like...one tree and a couple house plants in your living room...
The former may be selfsufficient but the later would seem to need suplemental purifing/ Waste exChange
We could run the numbers for volumetric comparison, but I'm thinking more like...one tree and a couple house plants in your living room...
The former may be selfsufficient but the later would seem to need suplemental purifing/ Waste exChange
cincyreefer
Active Member
Comparisons between humans and fish have very little validity... The basic fact is that if water quality is kept good, no matter the method, then the animals living inside the tank would have just a good of chance living even if plant life was the only filtration source.
007
Active Member
Originally posted by cincyreefer
Comparisons between humans and fish have very little validity... The basic fact is that if water quality is kept good, no matter the method, then the animals living inside the tank would have just a good of chance living even if plant life was the only filtration source.
I agree completely and furthermore, I believe that using tap water is not providing good water conditions. And "plants" are not going to "filter" the impurities out.
cincyreefer
Active Member
Do you have any proof of that?
new_noob
Member
bob, do what ever the h*ll you want, who cares what everone else says? yourtank looks great,I too am addicted to plants, 7 different macros in my fuge, only 2 weeks ago i had a nitrite levele if 1.6 mg/l and now its 0.0 what does that prove??? And no i didnt do a water change, it was my own little experiment!!!! AND I ALSO USE TAP WATER, SO WHAT?!?!?!?But i do dose with calcium/ live pytoplankton (spelling?)
squidd
Active Member
"Comparisons between humans and fish have very little validity..."
:thinking:
"This is just a "hypothetical" question..."
:yes:
Wasn't ment to prove a "point" but for comparative thought...
Somehow it went from water quality to air conditioning/living conditions, but the volumetric comparisons are valid.
:thinking:
"This is just a "hypothetical" question..."
:yes:
Wasn't ment to prove a "point" but for comparative thought...
Somehow it went from water quality to air conditioning/living conditions, but the volumetric comparisons are valid.
reefnut
Active Member
Here's what I would like to know. Assume I do not do ANY water changes, do not run a skimmer... etc. My tank evaps 2g a day on average so I add 14g a week of water. Assuming I was using tap water, how much "plant life" would it take to completely filter out all the impurities + keep up with the waste my fish are producing? I have a 40g refug full of macros... is that enough? or do I need a 40 refud + a in tank refuge? or what amount do I need to keep up? I don't think anyone can rationally answer that.
jc74
Member
I have to agree that waterchanges are usually unnecessary in a well-established system. If it ain't broke then don't try to fix it.
A friend of mine has had a 125 gallon for five years and has NEVER done a water change. His fish and inverts have been doing great and the water is always crystal clear. He doesn't even test it! In fact, the three LFS I deal with rarely change or test their water, and they each have multiple reef tanks. I think some people fuss too much over their aqauariums and make too many unnecessary changes when they see a slight change in water quality. From what I've seen, the laid-back approach works just fine as long as you have a proper setup with good biological filtration.
A friend of mine has had a 125 gallon for five years and has NEVER done a water change. His fish and inverts have been doing great and the water is always crystal clear. He doesn't even test it! In fact, the three LFS I deal with rarely change or test their water, and they each have multiple reef tanks. I think some people fuss too much over their aqauariums and make too many unnecessary changes when they see a slight change in water quality. From what I've seen, the laid-back approach works just fine as long as you have a proper setup with good biological filtration.