Can we get out of the Middle East, plez!

[beth]

I'm a pretty much even-keeled with my emotions but these latest atrocities against Americans over there has finally done me in with that part of the world. There is no hope for these people.
Yeah, our own government has some culpability; yet, on the whole it is just impossible to deal with these backwards, medieval people who live and act no different then they did 1000 years ago. They do not live and learn. And those individuals over there, who are capable of escaping medieval-ism, do so by running away from their society to live among the civilized.
What reason do a free people have to continue dealing with these sub-humans? Talk about the missing-link; I think we can find it over there, and it ain't pretty.
I guess we are there to keep Israel from blowing them all off the face of the earth? Or to prevent them from trying to annihilate Israel? Or maybe just to get their oil.....most likely just the oil. We don't need their damn oil. We have plenty of our own, and for what we don't have we can count on our neighbors north and south of us to provide. We should have never gone over there to get the oil; then they could continue on with their barbarian ways, living miserably ever-after, for all eternity in oppressive, obsolete societies where constructing makeshift tents and taming camels are their contributions to humanity.
Western societies, take you're losses and go home.
Unleash Israel.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez#post_3492539
I'm a pretty much even-keeled with my emotions but these latest atrocities against Americans over there has finally done me in with that part of the world. There is no hope for these people.
Yeah, our own government has some culpability; yet, on the whole it is just impossible to deal with these backwards, medieval people who live and act no different then they did 1000 years ago. They do not live and learn. And those individuals over there, who are capable of escaping medieval-ism, do so by running away from their society to live among the civilized.
What reason do a free people have to continue dealing with these sub-humans? Talk about the missing-link; I think we can find it over there, and it ain't pretty.
I guess we are there to keep Israel from blowing them all off the face of the earth? Or to prevent them from trying to annihilate Israel? Or maybe just to get their oil.....most likely just the oil. We don't need their damn oil. We have plenty of our own, and for what we don't have we can count on our neighbors north and south of us to provide. We should have never gone over there to get the oil; then they could continue on with their barbarian ways, living miserably ever-after, for all eternity in oppressive, obsolete societies where constructing makeshift tents and taming camels are their contributions to humanity.
Western societies, take you're losses and go home.
Unleash Israel.
It never made much sense to me either, to get in the middle of their civil war....we can't tell an ally from the enemy. I don't think the oil is worth it, but I wouldn't want Isreal left all alone to deal with the crazies either. BIG SIGH...Aren't our troops supposed to be coming home?

 

[reefraff]

Cold War. If we weren't there the soviets would be. I forget which country it is but one over there built a big ol military base in hopes of luring us there. We should move everything we have over there to that country so we can make sure the Iranians don't shut down the shipping lanes and call it good. We may not need their oil but if it's suddenly taken off the world market suddenly that we get from Canada, Mexico and South America triples in price and there will be less available.

 

[beth]

So the medievalist over there will be delighted to replace us with the Russians??? I think after they get to shake hands with KGB types and feel the pain of Russia's merciless retributions for the slightest bit of medievalist decent, they will find that God indeed has abandoned them.
Flower, I have confidence that Israel can take care of themselves. The only reason they haven't moved against Iran is because of our acquiescent hand holding them back. As of right now, the USA is not much of an alley to Israel.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez#post_3492556
So the medievalist over there will be delighted to replace us with the Russians??? I think after they get to shake hands with KGB types and feel the pain of Russia's merciless retributions for the slightest bit of medievalist decent, they will find that God indeed has abandoned them.
Flower, I have confidence that Israel can take care of themselves. The only reason they haven't moved against Iran is because of our acquiescent hand holding them back. As of right now, the USA is not much of an alley to Israel.
If we hadn't been there the Russians would have TRIED to take over.

 

[darthtang aw]

We are there for the same reason we have been there for the last 100 years. National Security. Like it or not, oil is the backbone of every great nation. From it's defense capabilities to its monetary sustainablity. Do we have our own? Sure. However it is stated oil is not replenishable. So, use someone elses fuel source and concerving your own makes sense in a long term way.
Think about it this way. If you and I had most of the oil in the world. And you were willing to sell yours would I not be a fool to buy yours and conserve what I have for that point in time when it is truly needed?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez#post_3492585
We are there for the same reason we have been there for the last 100 years. National Security. Like it or not, oil is the backbone of every great nation. From it's defense capabilities to its monetary sustainablity. Do we have our own? Sure. However it is stated oil is not replenishable. So, use someone elses fuel source and concerving your own makes sense in a long term way.
Think about it this way. If you and I had most of the oil in the world. And you were willing to sell yours would I not be a fool to buy yours and conserve what I have for that point in time when it is truly needed?
Whoa! I thought you were one of those "drill, baby, drill" advocates.

 

[darthtang aw]

Whoa!  I thought you were one of those "drill, baby, drill" advocates. 
I am to bring down price, create jobs, and so on. However, if the greatest fuel source known to man is not replenishable and limited, I understand why government entities would be involved in the middle east purely for oil. It is a long term national security issue.

 

[morgan175]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez#post_3492585
We are there for the same reason we have been there for the last 100 years. National Security. Like it or not, oil is the backbone of every great nation. From it's defense capabilities to its monetary sustainablity. Do we have our own? Sure. However it is stated oil is not replenishable. So, use someone elses fuel source and concerving your own makes sense in a long term way.
Think about it this way. If you and I had most of the oil in the world. And you were willing to sell yours would I not be a fool to buy yours and conserve what I have for that point in time when it is truly needed?
+1
Why are we hated?

 

[reefraff]

In the long run buying all that middle east oil is a good deal for us. A whole lot of the middle east oil has been produced. We still have a ton. Not only are they discovering new fields we have a lot of oil remaining in old fields. There are a lot of abandoned fields around the US where only 20 or 30 percent of the oil was recovered and the field shut down because it wasn't profitable to keep pumping or the land value got so high it was a better deal to develop than pump oil. With modern technology not only can they recover better than 80 percent of the oil they can drill for it a mile away. Most of the countries in the middle east have kept up with technology so when their fields go into decline there days are numbered.

 

[beth]

So, basically anything is ok for oil....the Iraq War, as an example. Intellectually, yeah, I realize it, but the price seems very high. Many soldiers died for freedom, or for justice, or for security; but, no, it was for oil. We all know that now. 911 was a hefty price as well.

 

[darthtang aw]

So, basically anything is ok for oil....the Iraq War,  as an example.   Intellectually, yeah, I realize it, but the price seems very high.  Many soldiers died for freedom, or for justice, or for security; but, no, it was for oil.  We all know that now.     911 was a hefty price as well.
Beth I hate to say it. But this is the price our country pays due to "technological advancement". Oil has enabled the ability to save more lives than it kills. nd as much as it sucks. Oil is the largest factor regarding our maintaining freedom and national security.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez#post_3492622
So, basically anything is ok for oil....the Iraq War, as an example. Intellectually, yeah, I realize it, but the price seems very high. Many soldiers died for freedom, or for justice, or for security; but, no, it was for oil. We all know that now. 911 was a hefty price as well.
Iraq was about a lot more than oil. Post 9-11 it would have been a foolish bet to assume they wouldn't have handed off some sort of WMD to the terrorist.

 

[flower]

Did I miss something? I thought our troops were coming home....I don't think there will never be peace in the Middle East, but I thought we trained our allies over there to now be able to handle things on their own.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez#post_3492650
Did I miss something? I thought our troops were coming home....I don't think there will never be peace in the Middle East, but I thought we trained our allies over there to now be able to handle things on their own.
Monkeys can't do everything on their own. They have to have people poking them with sticks to do things right. Afterall, FDR made it clear that we would have the biggest stick available to poke them with.

 

[beth]

Flower, didn't you see that over the past several days everything we supposedly worked for in the Middle East has blown up in our faces.
You know what, we should just admit that we're going to get the oil and just take it. American lives are the price for pussy-footing around. This whole lets bring democracy, lets free the oppressed, is a load of crap.

 

[darthtang aw]

Flower, didn't you see that over the past several days everything we supposedly worked for in the Middle East has blown up in our faces.
You know what, we should just admit that we're going to get the oil and just take it.    American lives are the price for pussy-footing around.  This whole lets bring democracy, lets free the oppressed, is a load of crap.
Problem is most americans wont agree with that even if the need for oil and how it affects national security were explained. To an extent the democracy statement is true, as historically most countries that have turned to democracy have become our allies in all facets of the word. So to a degree the democracy reason is the correct one, but just not the end result reason.

 

[reefraff]

Ultimately the real problem here is the United Nations. If this money laundering, espionage riddled debating society were properly ran many wars and conflicts could be managed. But when you have countries like Libya and Cuba placed on the human rights commission......

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez#post_3492667
Problem is most americans wont agree with that even if the need for oil and how it affects national security were explained. To an extent the democracy statement is true, as historically most countries that have turned to democracy have become our allies in all facets of the word. So to a degree the democracy reason is the correct one, but just not the end result reason.
The problem is the majority of religious factions in that region don't want anything to do with democracy. We killed one dictator to allow another in the wings to prepare himself to take over that Democratic system as soon as the opportunity arises. That opportunity is when we completely pull out of the Middle East. May not be next year, or the next 5. But it's almost a given that Iraq won't be able to maintain what the US handed them without the necessary military support. We've spent billions training their armies, and they've already had incidents where corruption in those ranks have occurred.

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez#post_3492672
The problem is the majority of religious factions in that region don't want anything to do with democracy. We killed one dictator to allow another in the wings to prepare himself to take over that Democratic system as soon as the opportunity arises. That opportunity is when we completely pull out of the Middle East. May not be next year, or the next 5. But it's almost a given that Iraq won't be able to maintain what the US handed them without the necessary military support. We've spent billions training their armies, and they've already had incidents where corruption in those ranks have occurred.
And that is the crux of the problem. These people do not want democracy, they want a theocracy based on discrimination and oppression. So, we keep fighting and loosing, but keep doing it. It is a loosing battle unless we just be honest and say we are going to conquer and take what we want (Rome-style). Anything else is a hypocrisy against our own citizens. And, we tell our soldiers that we are trying to free oppressed people? BS.
And, the topper is, the oil we fought for goes to other countries, such as China, who has not contributed one bit to the effort but reaps the benefits of our spilled blood.