Can we get out of the Middle East, plez!

bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Iran controls the Strait of Hormuz. Shut that down, and no one's oil gets exported. Our gas prices shot up a dime the last time they closed it a couple months ago. Does Iran have the military power to hold that area if it came down to "if push comes to shove"? Hope they don't have short-range nukes, or they could just nuke that entire area, and oil costs as we know would skyrocket.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Need to ammend my previous post. I typed 3 million barrels a day, Iran is at 1 million barrels a day.
A similar situation with the straits that happened before would not be as impactful as it was before.
http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/09/strait-of-hormuz-and-other-oil.html
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez/40#post_3493073
Iran controls the Strait of Hormuz. Shut that down, and no one's oil gets exported. Our gas prices shot up a dime the last time they closed it a couple months ago. Does Iran have the military power to hold that area if it came down to "if push comes to shove"? Hope they don't have short-range nukes, or they could just nuke that entire area, and oil costs as we know would skyrocket.
The only way they could really close it down would be to sink a tanker in just the right area which we already have plans to deal with. Thing is if they did that it would give us the excuse we need to take military action against them and they are truly not crazy enough to pull that ton of bricks on themselves.
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
The only thing that will save these people is education and jobs. Plain and simple. Unless you are providing those two things, people will always gravitate towards the extremists, because they provide money, power, and a purpose. These are the same things that cause gangs to have prevalence in the ghettos of America. I never understood why we don't invest heavily in education and jobs in places like Iraq. I mean I guess we can't even figure it out in our own country, so why would we do it right over there...
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
The only thing that will save these people is education and jobs.  Plain and simple.  Unless you are providing those two things, people will always gravitate towards the extremists, because they provide money, power, and a purpose.  These are the same things that cause gangs to have prevalence in the ghettos of America.  I never understood why we don't invest heavily in education and jobs in places like Iraq.  I mean I guess we can't even figure it out in our own country, so why would we do it right over there...
 
We already spend more money per student here than any other country in the world and have worse results. Education is not a money problem. It is a society upbringing and moral problem.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
The US school system suffers from the fact all we are interested in is explaining why little Jenny and Johnny are screwups instead of dealing with the fact little Jenny and Johnny are screwups. We need to put teachers back in control of the classroom. Parents are a big part of the problem too. I've seen numerous people from Chicago interviewed and most are pissed that they have to make child care arrangements, not that their kids are missing school.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
The US school system suffers from the fact all we are interested in is explaining why little Jenny and Johnny are screwups instead of dealing with the fact little Jenny and Johnny are screwups. We need to put teachers back in control of the classroom. Parents are a big part of the problem too. I've seen numerous people from Chicago interviewed and most are pissed that they have to make child care arrangements, not that their kids are missing school.
That has some to do with it. But the problem is bigger than that as well. Look at where that money is going.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
The money is there. We could get the same result for less if we could kick the unions out so bad teachers could be fired but it still comes down to making kids mind and parents getting involved.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez/40#post_3493154
The money is there. We could get the same result for less if we could kick the unions out so bad teachers could be fired but it still comes down to making kids mind and parents getting involved.
Not all states have teacher's unions, Texas being one of them. Parent involvement is crucial, but the bigger issue is allowing the government to dictate what curriculum can be taught in school. No Child Left Behind was one of the biggest epic failures when it came to "improving education" in this country. Teachers are held to these stupid standards, and instead of having freedom to teach the way they want, they have to spend 80% of their time "teaching the test".
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez/40#post_3493154
The money is there. We could get the same result for less if we could kick the unions out so bad teachers could be fired but it still comes down to making kids mind and parents getting involved.
No being able to fire substandard workers is not an artifact of unions per se. It's negotoated with each contract. I'm sure the union members gave something up in order to get the extra protection. You don't have to bust the union to fix that, it needs to be negotiated out.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez/40#post_3493178
No being able to fire substandard workers is not an artifact of unions per se. It's negotoated with each contract. I'm sure the union members gave something up in order to get the extra protection. You don't have to bust the union to fix that, it needs to be negotiated out.
Good luck with that. The unions also require employees (teachers) be allowed to engage in union activities on school time with pay
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392941/can-we-get-out-of-the-middle-east-plez/40#post_3493172
Not all states have teacher's unions, Texas being one of them. Parent involvement is crucial, but the bigger issue is allowing the government to dictate what curriculum can be taught in school. No Child Left Behind was one of the biggest epic failures when it came to "improving education" in this country. Teachers are held to these stupid standards, and instead of having freedom to teach the way they want, they have to spend 80% of their time "teaching the test".
They should test kids at the beginning and end of the year. If they improved the teacher did their job. If not they arent.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
I think testing should be part of teacher evaluations but certainly not the only tool. I would prefer the evaluation come from the school administrator. That should be part of their job.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I think anyone who works for any level of government should have no unionization of any kind at any level. The will of the people, as voiced through elected officials, should dictate salary and working conditions. Unions for government employees encourage corruption with elected officials. Exhibit A:States, counties and cities are going bankrupt all over the place primarily due to union pension plans and bloated healthcare costs. If you wanna suck the government teet, the people ought to say what you earn, not a cozy relationship between politicians buying votes and unions bullying said politicians.
 
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