Catholics vs. Abortion vs. Obama's mandate...

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459274
Here is what the rest of the catholic employees did in 2003 that didn't work at hospitals.
Emergency Services to 6,597,998 People
Food Services to 6,597,998 People
Agencies provided both prepared food and food distribution services.
Food banks & pantries
Soup kitchens
Congregate dining
Home delivered meals
Other food services 2,226,630
803,983
1,463,718
307,901
458,227
Other Basic Needs Assistance to 1,521,597 People
This category includes those basic services outside of food, shelter, or housing, such as:
Clothing assistance
Financial assistance
Utilities assistance
Medication assistance
Other basic needs assistance 34%
12%
12%
3%
39%
Temporary Shelter Services to 201,653 People
Services in this category include short-term (up to six months) emergency shelters and safe houses for the homeless, runaway youth, victims of domestic violence, etc.
Disaster Response Services to 31,302 People
These services include services that arise from any calamity-natural or man-made-that exceeds a community or neighborhood's ability to respond without outside intervention.
Transitional Housing Services to 27,070 People
Includes intermediate housing sites (six months to two years) for individuals and families.
Community-Building Services to 3,108,839 People
Provided Socialization and Neighborhood Services to 345,820 People
Agencies provided organized, age appropriate activities at the neighborhood level, such as summer camps for children, the elderly, and the disabled; sports programs; health and employment fairs.
Provided Permanent Housing Services to 44,261
Agencies operated non treatment related permanent housing sites for individuals and families.
Provided Immigration Services to 313,140 People
Services include assistance to individuals and families with immigration issues, such as legal status and citizenship.
Provided Housing Services to 186,584 People
Agencies provided non facilities based services, including vouchers for housing, home repair, loan assistance, housing search, subsidized home purchase, building material banks, and rental assistance.
Provided Refugee Resettlement Services to 76,864 People
Services in this category include resettlement and placement, job development, ESL classes, life skills education, job readiness training, and cultural adaptation of refugees.
Humanitarian Aid
Founded in 1943 by the U.S. Bishops, Catholic Relief Services (CRS) is the official overseas relief and development agency of the U.S. Catholic community. CRS provides direct aid to the poor, and involves people in their own development, helping them to realize their potential. CRS reached 80 million people in 99 countries and territories in 2002, bringing relief in the wake of disasters and offering hope and the opportunity to achieve self-sufficiency to the poorest of the poor.71
Funding for CRS comes from the American Bishops' Overseas Appeal (ABOA). Major support is also derived from public and private grants, individual donors and through a program of sacrificial giving called Operation Rice Bowl.72
Did You Know ?
In 2003, more than 13 million Ethiopians were dependent on food aid for survival. Catholic Relief Services responded with more than 500 metric tons of commodities. 73
Working through local partner Caritas Iraq and Save the Children in 25 communities to help rebuild homes and lives.
Flower, I won't even address your comments as naive as they are.
Flower,
What's your point? Where'd the Catholics get all the money to provide all these free services to these millions of destitute and needy individuals? Think of how much the deficit could be reduced if they'd pay taxes on all these contributions they received to provide these services. Of course I'm SURE they put back 100% of the money they received in charitable contributions to these causes. But then again, how does the Pope afford and ENTIRE CITY.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member

What's your point?  Where'd the Catholics get all the money to provide all these free services to these millions of destitute and needy individuals?  Think of how much the deficit could be reduced if they'd pay taxes on all these contributions they received to provide these services.  Of course I'm SURE they put back 100% of the money they received in charitable contributions to these causes.  But then again, how does the Pope afford and ENTIRE CITY. :^^&:
10% of all money collected goes to the vatican. The rest is used for services and such that I posted.
My point...You are are hung up on hospital employees, when in fact a greater majority of their work is not for profit charities of which they employ people.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
All catholic organizations combined received about 750 million in grants last year.
Their affordable housing and assistant program/group alone has an operating budget of 479 million dollars.
And this is just one facet of their not for profit. 750 million in grants, is a drop in the bucket compared to the money received in donations.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world. And guess what? Most of their funding does not come from the government. In fact, not even close.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459326
10% of all money collected goes to the vatican. The rest is used for services and such that I posted.
My point...You are are hung up on hospital employees, when in fact a greater majority of their work is not for profit charities of which they employ people.
I'm not hung up on the hospitals. I could care less what the organization does. If they employ non-secular or non-practicing Catholics, no matter what the business is, those individuals should not be denied a coverage that is offered by an insurance provider. Anything to do with one's health shouldn't be dicatated based on religious beliefs. What if the Catholic's came back and said, "We don't feel women should have the capability to do hysterectomy's. Taking the uterus out of the body makes it impossible for that woman to bear children, since procreation is one of the basic tenets of our religious beliefs. Therefore, we will not allow women to have that procedure, regardless of the reason." Don't tell me. "Well if you have uterine cancer, guess you need to find another employer to work for." Oops. Without Obamacare, that person still can't get the procedure performed even if she could find another job, because current insurance policies dictate they don't have to cover you for pre-existing conditions. "Boom, boom, boom. Another one bites the dust..."
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459249
No, I am saying go to the local charities before sticking your hand out to uncle Sam . You do not have to go to church to get help.
Btw a cath and stent are done with sedation not general anesthesia. There is no "surgery" involved unless disease is extensive or a problem occurs.
If you think there is not even more overhead costs in the gov't? Ha probably worse than the private sector
You're spliting hairs with your argument. Ok, the guy goes in, and they do more tests and realize stents won't work. The only way to repair the damage is by triple-bypass open heart surgery. Now tell me the procedure won't cost at least $80K....
 

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459515
Would the ending be the same if Obamacare was in full force today?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/16/ohio-couple-get-8-years-in-in-sons-cancer-death/
Probably... Why didnt the grandparents step up and help with the cost if they could afford to spend the $87 to get their dog treated for fleas. Sounds like there is way more to this story that what was reported here. Any county hospital would have helped for free, because legally, they have to.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
What does child medical neglect have to do with contraceptives?
bionicarm, insurance companies offer what their customers are willing to pay for. Its not like the insurance co was going to offer contraceptives anyway, but didn't do it because the Catholic Church said no. They don't offer it, because the Catholic Church does not want it and isn't going to pay for it. This is the case with all insurance plans.
Also, the issue regarding contraceptives has been in place much, much longer then the pill. It is a matter of religious interpretation of God's will. It has nothing to do with a medical condition that requires a hysterectomy.
 

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
It is all about the federal government dictating what is acceptable insurance or medical coverate.
And what is acceptable, cars, housing, land use, food, etc etc etc.
As I stated before this issue is much larger then this particular example.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459539
It is all about the federal government dictating what is acceptable insurance or medical coverate.
And what is acceptable, cars, housing, land use, food, etc etc etc.
As I stated before this issue is much larger then this particular example.
Maybe I stand all alone, but I think it's great that our government steps up and rates what is the safety rating of a car, and I want to see all medications that are approved by the FDA to be covered on all insurance policies, that way no matter what my medical needs are, I can be assured it's covered by my insurance. I love knowing exactly what is the ingredients of a food I am eating. I appreciate that the endangered critters are given a voice, when we go tearing down their habitates to make another high rise....holding the building of such back until the babies hatch or the animals relocated. I know our government wastes money on stupid things like $10.000 toilet seats..now that is something to complain about. Our government is far from perfect, but it isn't trying to play Hitler either..
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459530
What does child medical neglect have to do with contraceptives?
bionicarm, insurance companies offer what their customers are willing to pay for. Its not like the insurance co was going to offer contraceptives anyway, but didn't do it because the Catholic Church said no. They don't offer it, because the Catholic Church does not want it and isn't going to pay for it. This is the case with all insurance plans.
Also, the issue regarding contraceptives has been in place much, much longer then the pill. It is a matter of religious interpretation of God's will. It has nothing to do with a medical condition that requires a hysterectomy.
The hysterectomy analogy was just another example of what potentially could happen when you let religious organizations dictate what basic and essential medical services they can cover based on this First Amendment edict they're trying to use to ban contraceptives on their insurance plans. Today the Catholics don't want contraceptives. Tomorrow, it's banning hysterectomy's or some other medical procedure they deem violates their religious beliefs. That's the precedent you're setting with this entire controversy.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459552
The hysterectomy analogy was just another example of what potentially could happen when you let religious organizations dictate what basic and essential medical services they can cover based on this First Amendment edict they're trying to use to ban contraceptives on their insurance plans
. Today the Catholics don't want contraceptives. Tomorrow, it's banning hysterectomy's or some other medical procedure they deem violates their religious beliefs. That's the precedent you're setting with this entire controversy.
 

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459544
Maybe I stand all alone, but I think it's great that our government steps up and rates what is the safety rating of a car, and I want to see all medications that are approved by the FDA to be covered on all insurance policies, that way no matter what my medical needs are, I can be assured it's covered by my insurance. I love knowing exactly what is the ingredients of a food I am eating. I appreciate that the endangered critters are given a voice, when we go tearing down their habitates to make another high rise....holding the building of such back until the babies hatch or the animals relocated. I know our government wastes money on stupid things like $10.000 toilet seats..now that is something to complain about. Our government is far from perfect, but it isn't trying to play Hitler either..
You really believe that they are actually spending 10K on a toilet seat?
 

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459544
Maybe I stand all alone, but I think it's great that our government steps up and rates what is the safety rating of a car, and I want to see all medications that are approved by the FDA to be covered on all insurance policies, that way no matter what my medical needs are, I can be assured it's covered by my insurance. I love knowing exactly what is the ingredients of a food I am eating. I appreciate that the endangered critters are given a voice, when we go tearing down their habitates to make another high rise....holding the building of such back until the babies hatch or the animals relocated. I know our government wastes money on stupid things like $10.000 toilet seats..now that is something to complain about. Our government is far from perfect, but it isn't trying to play Hitler either..
My point is that none of what you mention is required by the government. and the federal government forcing you to buy a private product and forcing companies to produce a product is against our constitution. Tied into overruling religious values and believe it goes way beyond anything reasonable.
 

zman1

Active Member
"go forth and multiply" A basic necessity if big business is to increase revenue during the filling of the collection plate. That's the real reason behind being against contraception, more people, more money! Organized religions are the first Corporations. Corporation are against anything that would be contrary to growing revenue.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459552
The hysterectomy analogy was just another example of what potentially could happen when you let religious organizations dictate what basic and essential medical services they can cover based on this First Amendment edict they're trying to use to ban contraceptives on their insurance plans. Today the Catholics don't want contraceptives. Tomorrow, it's banning hysterectomy's or some other medical procedure they deem violates their religious beliefs. That's the precedent you're setting with this entire controversy.
Give me a break. The Catholic Church has had its doctrines in place for hundreds of years. It is not "today this and tomorrow that". They don't dream up new doctrines (as does the government) with the changing of the wind. Also, the Church does not dictate. People either follow what the Church teaches, or they choose not to. Can't say the same with all the intrusions that government has in our lives of which none of us have a choice but to submit to. Including excessive taxation on the middle class.
Also, contraceptives are not essential medical services. A hysterectomy is.
If insurance companies covered everything you and Flower want, then we might as well sign over our pay checks to the ins. co., because premiums will hit the ceiling.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member

"go forth and multiply"  A basic necessity if big business is to increase revenue during the filling of the collection plate.  That's the real reason behind being against contraception, more people, more money!  Organized religions are the first Corporations.  Corporation are against anything that would be contrary to growing revenue. 
Yet they teach abstinance......which is the ONLY 100% effective form of birth control. Kind of goes against your point....
I love when people that have no true understanding of the bible and its context try to throw out passages.
 

zman1

Active Member
Asprins, too. Please Darth - really a husband and wife.... Hmmm. The only one with TRUE understanding, I've heard lines like that before. Darth (Donald Trump) Tang....
 

zman1

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/180#post_3459567
Give me a break. The Catholic Church has had its doctrines in place for hundreds of years. It is not "today this and tomorrow that". They don't dream up new doctrines (as does the government) with the changing of the wind. Also, the Church does not dictate. People either follow what the Church teaches, or they choose not to. Can't say the same with all the intrusions that government has in our lives of which none of us have a choice but to submit to. Including excessive taxation on the middle class.
Also, contraceptives are not essential medical services. A hysterectomy is.
If insurance companies covered everything you and Flower want, then we might as well sign over our pay checks to the ins. co., because premiums will hit the ceiling.
The heretics that thought the world was round and that the planet revolved around the sun were dealt with and the inquisition was the rock solid non wavering doctrine. The views/doctine of the Church never change or evolve? I am not sure I agree with the Church part, first section...
 
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