Catholics vs. Abortion vs. Obama's mandate...

bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459141
Once again, you didn't quite read what was said.
Yes I did.
You stated, "There are over 600 hospitals and a few hundred colleges and universities. Cancellation of federal funding would result in no funding to the homeless, no funding to medicare or medicaid recipients who rely on these hospitals." DePaul University, one of the largest faith-based institutions in the country would be classified as one of these "colleges". If you didn't mean to associate colleges with the homeless, you should've omitted it.
Sorry to tell you, but the poor, homeless, and downtrodden aren't the main patient base for Catholic hospitals. If they don't want to lose their federal funding, then they follow the same rules as any other hospital that provides the same coverage for their employees.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
This is the latest update of this controversy:
"Under the new plan, religiously affiliated universities and hospitals will not be forced to offer contraception coverage to their employees. Insurers will be required, however, to offer complete coverage free of charge to women who work at such institutions."
So again, what's the issue? The churches are no longer obligated to provide the coverage. If women who work at one of these businesses obtain insuance that they pay for, the provider will provide the contraceptives at no charge if the women choose to use them.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459149
This is the latest update of this controversy:
"Under the new plan, religiously affiliated universities and hospitals will not be forced to offer contraception coverage to their employees. Insurers will be required, however, to offer complete coverage free of charge to women who work at such institutions."
So again, what's the issue? The churches are no longer obligated to provide the coverage. If women who work at one of these businesses obtain insuance that they pay for, the provider will provide the contraceptives at no charge if the women choose to use them.
You don't think the insurers are going to pass the costs on to the hospital or university? And what about the ones that self insure?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459142
There in lies the problem. Why are they exempt?
Because up until 0bama both parties have recognized the benefit of having religious organizations providing these services to the community and respected the fact that they had to make certain concessions to the first amendment rights of the churches. As long as a church is providing the resources to establish these services their first amendment rights must be respected.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member

Please.  This has absolutely nothing to do with the economy and unemployment.  You apparently like drinking the Bill O'Reilly/Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aide.
 
 
Do you have health insurance?  Let's say you lost your job, and haven't been able to find another one.  In the mean time, you find out that you have several clogged arteries and needed stents installed or you'd die of a heart attack.  What would you do?  Sorry, your pride and being a Constitutionalist doesn't allow you to get assistance from your county hospital, or any other organization that provides free health care.  You also don't have any real property or sufficient credit to get a loan to pay the $80,000+ you'll need to pay for the procedure.  Sucks to be you.  Where do I send the flowers for the paupers funeral?
 
Exactly where you are wrong. My understandingof the Constitution allows and encourages me to go to my church, community, or even state for assistance. I would much rathersend money to my Church or local charities where i can help locally, and watch how the donations are spent. I would not expect assistance from the feds as that is not under the elaborated powers in the Constitution. The federal gov't was not set up to provide general welfare. I also think you are a little high on the stent price, sounds more like a CABG, but i would have to check.
The other issue is the pill increased bre@st cancer rates. Already one in eight women will get some form of bre@st cancer. You want to increase that more? The rate also increases the longer you are on the pill. So giving a 14 year old the pill for over a decade will greatly increase her exposure to breast cancer. The pill does lower ovarian cancer, but that rate is only about 1 in 72 women. So would you rather your daughter or wife go from 1 in 8 to 1 in 5, or from 1 in 72 to 1 in 90?
They are going through packed student lunches to make sure they meet federal requirements.
The camels nose is under the tent for sure
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459196
Exactly where you are wrong. My understandingof the Constitution allows and encourages me to go to my church, community, or even state for assistance. I would much rathersend money to my Church or local charities where i can help locally, and watch how the donations are spent. I would not expect assistance from the feds as that is not under the elaborated powers in the Constitution. The federal gov't was not set up to provide general welfare. I also think you are a little high on the stent price, sounds more like a CABG, but i would have to check.
The other issue is the pill increased bre@st cancer rates. Already one in eight women will get some form of bre@st cancer. You want to increase that more? The rate also increases the longer you are on the pill. So giving a 14 year old the pill for over a decade will greatly increase her exposure to breast cancer. The pill does lower ovarian cancer, but that rate is only about 1 in 72 women. So would you rather your daughter or wife go from 1 in 8 to 1 in 5, or from 1 in 72 to 1 in 90?
They are going through packed student lunches to make sure they meet federal requirements.
The camels nose is under the tent for sure
The First Amendment encourages you to got to church? Where do you get that? Sounds like you're implying that I'm breaking the law if I don't go sit in some building every Sunday, and dish out at least 10% of my income to some institution that pays little or no taxes. Yea, I've seen how your money is spent at the "big box" churches like Cornerstone. $2 to the needy, $8 to the church heads. All tax free.
Women hyave been taking various forms of The Pill for decades. Scientific studies also have said that drinking milk, eating peanut butter, or some other off-shoot food causes cancer in rats and mice. It's all speculative. How many of these 14 year olds have a family history of breast cancer?
See no one has an answer to my stent scenario. How does he pay? How does he get these treatment? BTW, the cost was a ballpark. Any price you find probably would be the reduced rate insurance companies agree on. Go talk to one of your cardiologist buddies and ask him/her what they'd charge to insert 3 stents into a patient if they were walking off the street with nothing but a checkbook in their hand. Don't forget the hospital stay, the care from that hospital, booking an OR, paying for an anethesiologist, the surgery, and the $250/hr the cardio doc charges. I'd take a guess the cost would be over $80K.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459196
Exactly where you are wrong. My understandingof the Constitution allows and encourages me to go to my church, community, or even state for assistance. I would much rathersend money to my Church or local charities where i can help locally, and watch how the donations are spent. I would not expect assistance from the feds as that is not under the elaborated powers in the Constitution. The federal gov't was not set up to provide general welfare. I also think you are a little high on the stent price, sounds more like a CABG, but i would have to check.
Except where it says in the constitution "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459196
Exactly where you are wrong. My understandingof the Constitution allows and encourages me to go to my church, community, or even state for assistance. I would much rathersend money to my Church or local charities where i can help locally, and watch how the donations are spent. I would not expect assistance from the feds as that is not under the elaborated powers in the Constitution. The federal gov't was not set up to provide general welfare. I also think you are a little high on the stent price, sounds more like a CABG, but i would have to check.
IMO... church is just big business...their job is to suck as much money out of you that they can. The only charities they support are their own. IMO, the little amount of money given toward charities is miniscule compared to the amount of money they take in, and I understand when it comes to charities every little bit helps. If a church gives $1000.00 they made $10.000.00
The government, you know...the Feds. Pay for your roads, your police department, the fire department, the ambulance trucks..the army to protect the nation and even the Satalites that allow your cell phones to work. Countless other things that keep American people happy...The bulk is all paid from your taxes. You are part of a country where you can openly complain, you have no idea what a priviledge that is...Why? Because you grew up in America.
In this country, if you are out of work, you can get unemployment benifits and assistance from the government to feed and house your family. In some other countries, you would starve and live on the streets with your family.
You can complain all we want, but I like this country. I may whine a little about the few things our government does that I personally don't like, but it's a great country. I would much rather pay my taxes for the countless other help the government gives to the destitute, than to a local church to start up a food pantry...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459218
IMO... church is just big business...their job is to suck as much money out of you that they can. The only charities they support are their own. IMO, the little amount of money given toward charities is miniscule compared to the amount of money they take in, and I understand when it comes to charities every little bit helps. If a church gives $1000.00 they made $10.000.00
The government, you know...the Feds. Pay for your roads, your police department, the fire department, the ambulance trucks..the army to protect the nation and even the Satalites that allow your cell phones to work. Countless other things that keep American people happy...The bulk is all paid from your taxes. You are part of a country where you can openly complain, you have no idea what a priviledge that is...Why? Because you grew up in America.
In this country, if you are out of work, you can get unemployment benifits and assistance from the government to feed and house your family. In some other countries, you would starve and live on the streets with your family.
You can complain all we want, but I like this country. I may whine a little about the few things our government does that I personally don't like, but it's a great country. I would much rather pay my taxes for the countless other help the government gives to the destitute, than to a local church to start up a food pantry...
You need to find a better class of church if that's the way you feel.
I think most of us support our government as a general concept. Where me and the vast majority of my non mindnumb friends draw the line is social engineering and wealth redistribution. Do you know the government gives low income people cell phones with 250 minutes of service a month? How about providing housing assistance to illegal aliens? You are disabled. You know what you went through to receive disability payments. How do you feel about the fact our government will give those very same disability payments to chronic alcoholics or those who have blown their minds through drug abuse? The liberals and their media stooges do a good job of painting conservatives as anti government when we are actually anti self serving politician. I am sick of seeing tax dollars squandered so politicians can buy votes.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
No, bionicarm, this is what I said:
The Church does not operate for profit businesses. Most of their orgs are charity based having a presence in most American communities. This includes homeless shelters, emergency aid, food programs, etc. There are over 600 hospitals and a few hundred colleges and universities. Cancellation of federal funding would result in no funding to the homeless, no funding to medicare or medicaid recipients who rely on these hospitals. There are small towns where the only hospital access is a Catholic hospital.
You really want to deny poor people, the needy, the homeless, old people, and welfare recipients care and charitable services just so you don't have to pay for the pill?
Learn to interpret what is actually said before you time and again extrapolate what you want to suit your purpose.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459210
Except where it says in the constitution "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
"Promote" does not mean "provide"....Funny in that we are spending more promoting the general welfare than providing for the common defense
i guess "shall not be infringed"" means uncle Sam needs to buy me a gun.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459202
The First Amendment encourages you to got to church? Where do you get that? Sounds like you're implying that I'm breaking the law if I don't go sit in some building every Sunday, and dish out at least 10% of my income to some institution that pays little or no taxes. Yea, I've seen how your money is spent at the "big box" churches like Cornerstone. $2 to the needy, $8 to the church heads. All tax free.
Women hyave been taking various forms of The Pill for decades. Scientific studies also have said that drinking milk, eating peanut butter, or some other off-shoot food causes cancer in rats and mice. It's all speculative. How many of these 14 year olds have a family history of breast cancer?
See no one has an answer to my stent scenario. How does he pay? How does he get these treatment? BTW, the cost was a ballpark. Any price you find probably would be the reduced rate insurance companies agree on. Go talk to one of your cardiologist buddies and ask him/her what they'd charge to insert 3 stents into a patient if they were walking off the street with nothing but a checkbook in their hand. Don't forget the hospital stay, the care from that hospital, booking an OR, paying for an anethesiologist, the surgery, and the $250/hr the cardio doc charges. I'd take a guess the cost would be over $80K.
No, I am saying go to the local charities before sticking your hand out to uncle Sam . You do not have to go to church to get help.
Btw a cath and stent are done with sedation not general anesthesia. There is no "surgery" involved unless disease is extensive or a problem occurs.
If you think there is not even more overhead costs in the gov't? Ha probably worse than the private sector
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459235
You need to find a better class of church if that's the way you feel.
I think most of us support our government as a general concept. Where me and the vast majority of my non mindnumb friends draw the line is social engineering and wealth redistribution. Do you know the government gives low income people cell phones with 250 minutes of service a month? How about providing housing assistance to illegal aliens? You are disabled. You know what you went through to receive disability payments. How do you feel about the fact our government will give those very same disability payments to chronic alcoholics or those who have blown their minds through drug abuse? The liberals and their media stooges do a good job of painting conservatives as anti government when we are actually anti self serving politician. I am sick of seeing tax dollars squandered so politicians can buy votes.
Our system isn't perfect. You see these types of "inequities" all the time in the media. When you're talking over 260 million citizens, a certain percentage will find inventive ways to circumvent the beuracracy. Some of these "wealth distrubution" and "government charity" programs are well intended, and do benefit those who are honest, forthcoming, and only use these programs as a last resort so they don't end up on the street under a bridge in a cardboard box. In order to weed out the bad seeds, you'd spend more in worker salaries and time than you do just giving them these benefits you despise. I completely agree with your assessment of our corrupt political systems not only at the federal level, but at the state and local as well. San Antonio wants to spend several million on this light rail system for our downtown area. That area has succesfully transported citizens and visitors using current bus transportation for years at a fraction of the cost this rail service would provide. It's a local City Council boondoggle we aren't even allowed to vote on. They just spent over $100,000 renaming a long-standing street name (Durango) to Cesar Chavez Blvd. because LULAC wanted to honor this Latino that had absolutely nothing to do with San Antonio (sorry, no migrant farming going on around here). Again, taxpayers weren't allowed to vote on the proposal. I don't even want to go through all the pet projects Rick Perry has lined pockets of his cronies over the years.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

Here is what the rest of the catholic employees did in 2003 that didn't work at hospitals.
Emergency Services to 6,597,998 People
Food Services to 6,597,998 People
Agencies provided both prepared food and food distribution services.
Food banks & pantries
Soup kitchens
Congregate dining
Home delivered meals
Other food services 2,226,630
803,983
1,463,718
307,901
458,227
Other Basic Needs Assistance to 1,521,597 People
This category includes those basic services outside of food, shelter, or housing, such as:
Clothing assistance
Financial assistance
Utilities assistance
Medication assistance
Other basic needs assistance 34%
12%
12%
3%
39%
Temporary Shelter Services to 201,653 People
Services in this category include short-term (up to six months) emergency shelters and safe houses for the homeless, runaway youth, victims of domestic violence, etc.
Disaster Response Services to 31,302 People
These services include services that arise from any calamity-natural or man-made-that exceeds a community or neighborhood's ability to respond without outside intervention.
Transitional Housing Services to 27,070 People
Includes intermediate housing sites (six months to two years) for individuals and families.
Community-Building Services to 3,108,839 People
Provided Socialization and Neighborhood Services to 345,820 People
Agencies provided organized, age appropriate activities at the neighborhood level, such as summer camps for children, the elderly, and the disabled; sports programs; health and employment fairs.
Provided Permanent Housing Services to 44,261
Agencies operated non treatment related permanent housing sites for individuals and families.
Provided Immigration Services to 313,140 People
Services include assistance to individuals and families with immigration issues, such as legal status and citizenship.
Provided Housing Services to 186,584 People
Agencies provided non facilities based services, including vouchers for housing, home repair, loan assistance, housing search, subsidized home purchase, building material banks, and rental assistance.
Provided Refugee Resettlement Services to 76,864 People
Services in this category include resettlement and placement, job development, ESL classes, life skills education, job readiness training, and cultural adaptation of refugees.
Humanitarian Aid
Founded in 1943 by the U.S. Bishops, Catholic Relief Services (CRS) is the official overseas relief and development agency of the U.S. Catholic community. CRS provides direct aid to the poor, and involves people in their own development, helping them to realize their potential. CRS reached 80 million people in 99 countries and territories in 2002, bringing relief in the wake of disasters and offering hope and the opportunity to achieve self-sufficiency to the poorest of the poor.71
Funding for CRS comes from the American Bishops' Overseas Appeal (ABOA). Major support is also derived from public and private grants, individual donors and through a program of sacrificial giving called Operation Rice Bowl.72
Did You Know ?
In 2003, more than 13 million Ethiopians were dependent on food aid for survival. Catholic Relief Services responded with more than 500 metric tons of commodities. 73
Working through local partner Caritas Iraq and Save the Children in 25 communities to help rebuild homes and lives.
Flower, I won't even address your comments as naive as they are.
Flower,
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459095
Please. This has absolutely nothing to do with the economy and unemployment. You apparently like drinking the Bill O'Reilly/Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aide.
Do you have health insurance? Let's say you lost your job, and haven't been able to find another one. In the mean time, you find out that you have several clogged arteries and needed stents installed or you'd die of a heart attack. What would you do? Sorry, your pride and being a Constitutionalist doesn't allow you to get assistance from your county hospital, or any other organization that provides free health care. You also don't have any real property or sufficient credit to get a loan to pay the $80,000+ you'll need to pay for the procedure. Sucks to be you. Where do I send the flowers for the paupers funeral?
over there>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
LOL
I will get exactly the amount of heath care I am entitiled to according to how much I contributed to society and how much local charity and research hospitals provide.
Just As I will get exactly the mount of automibile I am entitled to
Or clothing
or food
or shelter
or entertainment
etc
etc
etc.
It is not about health care. It is all about only washington DC is the only one that knows what is best for me and how I should act.
And to h*** with my contributions to society.
To h*** with my charity and caring for others.
And to h*** with my beliefs and values.
that is what it is all about.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/160#post_3459275
over there>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
LOL
I will get exactly the amount of heath care I am entitiled to according to how much I contributed to society and how much local charity and research hospitals provide.
Just As I will get exactly the mount of automibile I am entitled to
Or clothing
or food
or shelter
or entertainment
etc
etc
etc.
It is not about health care. It is all about only washington DC is the only one that knows what is best for me and how I should act.
And to h*** with my contributions to society.
To h*** with my charity and caring for others.
And to h*** with my beliefs and values.
that is what it is all about.
Based on the fact that you don't think anyone should get a free handout, including health care, guess you wouldn't be around much longer. Remember, you're entitled to NOTHING. That's the A,erican Way.
 
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