Catholics vs. Abortion vs. Obama's mandate...

beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/120#post_3459016
...
Again, if someone doesn't like it, then don't go to work for the Catholic Church.
Awwwwww.
and if you don't like the heathcare of your employer you can work for someone else. Or buy your own.
Again the heath care program is not about providing health care.
the welfare programs are not about welfare.
The OSHA programs is not about safety and health.
etc
etc etc
All or them are about the federal government dictating to its loyal subjects what must be done.
Those subjects are not to be trusted with the freedom to make their own decisions and provide for others.
It is no wonder the lib, socialist, communist, fascist democrates are in total shock. How could all these loyal subjects be so upset with this common sense measure.
They just don't get it.
People want the freedom to make these decisions for themselves and their values respected.
fortunately they now realize what exactly is at stake. And will demand repeal of the entire obama care.
and hopefully start dismantling the rest so the US can thrive once again.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/120#post_3459021
Ugh...This is not the argument I am making.
There is not an alternative medication. They are synthetic hormones, and those disorders need to be treated with hormone therapy.
I wasn't sure why bionicarn was focused on the drug rather than what the drug was used for. I assume that he was thinking that the drug would be banned by the Catholic Church, (which would, in fact, be discrimination against women) as opposed to excluding its use as a contraceptive.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459022
Awwwwww.
and if you don't like the heathcare of your employer you can work for someone else. Or buy your own.
Again the heath care program is not about providing health care.
the welfare programs are not abut welfare.
The OSHA programs is not about safety and health.
etc
etc etc
All or them are about the federal government deictating to its loyal subjects what msut be done.
Those subjects are not to be trusted with the freedome to make their own decisions and provide for others.
It is no wonder the lib, socialist, communist, fascist democrates are in total shock. How could all these loyal subjects be so upset with this common sense measure.
They just don't get it.
People want the freedom to make these decisions for themselves and their values respected.
fortunately they now realize what exactly is at stake. And will demand repeal of the entire obama care.
and hopefully start dismantling the rest so the US can thrive once again.
You cannot live in a diverse and humongeous society like the United States without some type of organized control. If this country followed your principles, and allowed every citizen to do just as they pleased, you would have total chaos. You need centralized government to dictate certain aspects of how businesses and people do things in their daily lives. Why have police, fire, and ambulance protection? Fend for yourself. How can you say the health care program isn't about providing healthcare? That's exactly what it's for. You have over 50 million people out there that have no health insurance or medical coverage whatsoever. And no, these aren't the lazy lowlife Welfare receipients the NeoCons on Fox News want to depict. You have low and middle income workers, college students, and part-timers that have little or no abilty to acquire adequate health care. You want to simply take the "sucks to be you" approach, and you believe in the "survial of the fittest" mentality. Sorry, but that's not the vision our Founding Fathers had for this country.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/120#post_3459016
This doesn't have anything to do with Catholic as opposed to non-Catholic employees working in Catholic institutions. The EEOC stands for Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, not all health insurances have to be the same organization. The EEOC issues regulations pertaining to non discriminatory hiring practices. If an employer decides not to offer contraceptives, then that is not discrimination unless it is offered to one group of women, and not offered to another group of women.
It would be an EEOC violation if the Catholic Church actually did as you suggest and only hire "devout Catholics". That would be discrimination.
Discrimination would occur if a health plan offered cardiac treatment to only men, but not to women. If a health care plan offered sterilization to men, but not to women, then that would be discrimination. If the health plan does not offer birth control, then there is no discrimination since all the employees are being treated equal.
If the Church foots the bill for their employees insurance, then as an employer it should be able to decide what the insurance package looks like. Again, if someone doesn't like it, then don't go to work for the Catholic Church.
If the Catholic church doesn't want to provide these service or options, fine. No problem. Then they lose all State and Federal funding they receive from the government to support their business. After that, they can do as they please.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

You need centralized government to dictate certain aspects of how businesses and people do things in their daily lives. 
Certain, sure, but it is slowly moving towards, all. This is the problem. And has been for a few decades now.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

If the Catholic church doesn't want to provide these service or options, fine.  No problem.  Then they lose all State and Federal funding they receive from the government to support their business.  After that, they can do as they please.
I could see federal funding...but states are a separate entity and free to determine their own funding. Let the fd revoke funding...see the backlash, especially after bailing out so many.......
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459040
You cannot live in a diverse and humongeous society like the United States without some type of organized control. If this country followed your principles, and allowed every citizen to do just as they pleased, you would have total chaos. You need centralized government to dictate certain aspects of how businesses and people do things in their daily lives. Why have police, fire, and ambulance protection? Fend for yourself. How can you say the health care program isn't about providing healthcare? That's exactly what it's for. You have over 50 million people out there that have no health insurance or medical coverage whatsoever. And no, these aren't the lazy lowlife Welfare receipients the NeoCons on Fox News want to depict. You have low and middle income workers, college students, and part-timers that have little or no abilty to acquire adequate health care. You want to simply take the "sucks to be you" approach, and you believe in the "survial of the fittest" mentality. Sorry, but that's not the vision our Founding Fathers had for this country.
This is not every citizen doing what they want. There are needs for and a proper government authority for laws against rape murder robery and so on.
The founders specifically limited the federal government to prevent exactly what the federal government is doing in general and health care as one of the specifics.
the founders relied on people themselves to provide for others who had less and setup a government to insure every one has the opportunity to succeed. The founders specifically did not want the federal government dictating individual actions (like buying a private product) within the states. They were rightfully afraid that such powers would lead to a reimposition of imperial (king or dictator) rule over the population which the american revolution overthrew.
Nothing in our declaration of constitution gives a right to health care or success.
The constitution specifically prevents the government from overruling religious values and beliefs.
And specifically prevents congress from passing bills seizing personal assets without court actions and just because you are you.
Everyone does have an equal opportunity. But this government is attempting to insure equal results. And that is why we have high unemployment, a dragging economy, and we are losing esteme in the world. Just as happened after Carter back in the late '70's.
So now we have relearned all this and have to get back to the freedoms we once experienced.
starting with the repeal of the national health care bill.
 
slice

slice

Active Member
My first post on these boards was a diatribe on the so-called health care bill.
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act has absolutely nothing to do with health care. It is all about government control.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459042
If the Catholic church doesn't want to provide these service or options, fine. No problem. Then they lose all State and Federal funding they receive from the government to support their business. After that, they can do as they please.
The Church does not operate for profit businesses. Most of their orgs are charity based having a presence in most American communities. This includes homeless shelters, emergency aid, food programs, etc. There are over 600 hospitals and a few hundred colleges and universities. Cancellation of federal funding would result in no funding to the homeless, no funding to medicare or medicaid recipients who rely on these hospitals. There are small towns where the only hospital access is a Catholic hospital.
You really want to deny poor people, the needy, the homeless, old people, and welfare recipients care and charitable services just so you don't have to pay for the pill?
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Beth
I understand it is even more wide spread than that.
some Catholic instutions are self insured.
There is ( I hear) even a Catholic insurance company.
With that type of organization the "work around" where the insurance company provides the stuff free is totally out the window.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
"Congress (aka the government) Shall make no law" The government cannot force religious institutions to violate their beliefs. Employees do not have the right to dictate what a business does or doesn't offer as a benefit. If someone is too cheap to pay for their own birth control they are free to go find a job that provides that benefit.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459042
If the Catholic church doesn't want to provide these service or options, fine. No problem. Then they lose all State and Federal funding they receive from the government to support their business. After that, they can do as they please.
The government dropping federal funding because the church wont offer birth control to it's employees wouldn't go over any better than the mandate. The hospitals they run don't offer the services now.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459059
The Church does not operate for profit businesses. Most of their orgs are charity based having a presence in most American communities. This includes homeless shelters, emergency aid, food programs, etc. There are over 600 hospitals and a few hundred colleges and universities. Cancellation of federal funding would result in no funding to the homeless, no funding to medicare or medicaid recipients who rely on these hospitals. There are small towns where the only hospital access is a Catholic hospital.
You really want to deny poor people, the needy, the homeless, old people, and welfare recipients care and charitable services just so you don't have to pay for the pill?
You're telling me DePaul Univeristy caters specifically to "the poor people, the needy, the homeless, and welfare recipients"?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459090
"Congress (aka the government) Shall make no law" The government cannot force religious institutions to violate their beliefs. Employees do not have the right to dictate what a business does or doesn't offer as a benefit. If someone is too cheap to pay for their own birth control they are free to go find a job that provides that benefit.
It's a business, not a religious institution. A church is a "religious institution". A hospital run by Catholics is a business, and can be treated as such without denying them the ability to practice their religious beliefs as long as it comfrms to whatever Federal regulations are mandated for that business to operate. So if I got admitted to a hospital run by Jehovah Witnesses, and due to my injuries I needed a blood transfusion, and because my injuries were so severe I'd die before getting to another hospital, can they deny me getting a transfusion because it goes against their religious beliefs?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459048
This is not every citizen doing what they want. There are needs for and a proper government authority for laws against rape murder robery and so on.
The founders specifically limited the federal government to prevent exactly what the federal government is doing in general and health care as one of the specifics.
the founders relied on people themselves to provide for others who had less and setup a government to insure every one has the opportunity to succeed. The founders specifically did not want the federal government dictating individual actions (like buying a private product) within the states. They were rightfully afraid that such powers would lead to a reimposition of imperial (king or dictator) rule over the population which the american revolution overthrew.
Nothing in our declaration of constitution gives a right to health care or success.
The constitution specifically prevents the government from overruling religious values and beliefs.
And specifically prevents congress from passing bills seizing personal assets without court actions and just because you are you.
Everyone does have an equal opportunity. But this government is attempting to insure equal results. And that is why we have high unemployment, a dragging economy, and we are losing esteme in the world. Just as happened after Carter back in the late '70's.
So now we have relearned all this and have to get back to the freedoms we once experienced.
starting with the repeal of the national health care bill.
Please. This has absolutely nothing to do with the economy and unemployment. You apparently like drinking the Bill O'Reilly/Rush Limbaugh Kool-Aide.
Do you have health insurance? Let's say you lost your job, and haven't been able to find another one. In the mean time, you find out that you have several clogged arteries and needed stents installed or you'd die of a heart attack. What would you do? Sorry, your pride and being a Constitutionalist doesn't allow you to get assistance from your county hospital, or any other organization that provides free health care. You also don't have any real property or sufficient credit to get a loan to pay the $80,000+ you'll need to pay for the procedure. Sucks to be you. Where do I send the flowers for the paupers funeral?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
My wife works with 20 different hospitals who self insure for their med mal insurance, They more they likely also self insure employee insurance too. It isn't all that rare.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

You're telling me DePaul Univeristy caters specifically to "the poor people, the needy, the homeless, and welfare recipients"? :rotfl:
One out of how many? Really? That is your argument?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/140#post_3459093
It's a business, not a religious institution. A church is a "religious institution". A hospital run by Catholics is a business, and can be treated as such without denying them the ability to practice their religious beliefs as long as it comfrms to whatever Federal regulations are mandated for that business to operate. So if I got admitted to a hospital run by Jehovah Witnesses, and due to my injuries I needed a blood transfusion, and because my injuries were so severe I'd die before getting to another hospital, can they deny me getting a transfusion because it goes against their religious beliefs?
Wrong again. Hospitals operated by the Catholic church are exempt from federal regs that conflict with church teachings.
Blood transfusions are medically needed. Abortions and birth control are elective procedures.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top