comments on your Live Fish Store

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by alix2.0
http:///forum/post/2543533
dont want to rain on anyone's parade, but just throwing this out there.
once you do start your store, you may want to keep it on the down low around here, or you may find yourself banned. remember jonthefishguy?
just something to think about.
If you do not know the full story of a situation (or only know one side), you should not always be quick to make a comment. There are plenty of people on these forums that work at pet stores, and a few that even run them or have some involvement in the business-end of them. The member you referred to did not get banned because he owned a fish store.
A lot of cool ideas in this thread.

 

[spiderwoman]

What is the most impressive thing you have ever seen at a live fish store? upside down jellyfish and a large lagoon of sharks (both at one of LFS's near by)
What is the most expensive thing you have bought? a single item? 150g RR tank
What do you think the markup is on the items that you buy? No idea, depends on items I guess... 35%?
As far as decor... is art or some display information needed? I like books, but that's not really display. I like the whole Caribbean feel/look. For example Jimmy Buffett has some great decor stuff. Hubby bought a lot from his last trip to Margaritaville in Vegas (wooden signs etc.)
Anyone buy fresh/saltwater books? I do and would buy books. It all depends on what kind of a selection you have.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/2550893
If you do not know the full story of a situation (or only know one side), you should not always be quick to make a comment. There are plenty of people on these forums that work at pet stores, and a few that even run them or have some involvement in the business-end of them. The member you referred to did not get banned because he owned a fish store.
A lot of cool ideas in this thread.
I don't know most of what happened to Jonthefishguy. I assume he was just being a butt about everything, and I can understand about a ban.
Thanks for saying there are a lot of cool ideas in this thread, lion, means a lot to meh!
Do you have any ideas what you would do differently in a live fish store if you owned it? what would you change or do?

 

[lion_crazz]

-A known quarantine tank that customers knew about but could not buy from until fish were healthy
-free water testing done in front of customer
-RO water for sale (where filter change was dated so you always knew you were getting pure water)
-Online interaction (blog/web sales)
-tanks that had little messages on them (almost like recommendations - i.e. "Kole tang - great algae eater")
-clean store with one solid color (either white or blue)
-coral tanks that had had large colonies and frags
-special order book for fish, inverts, corals
-employees who actually gave proper answers to questions and were not know-it-alls
-a rewards program where you got money back for every so much spent
-good stock of literature so that customers could read up on stuff they were interested in (authors to include: Fenner, Calfo, Sprung, Borneman, Paletta, etc.)

 

[sepulatian]

I am going to throw my honest opinion in here.
Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/2551338
-A known quarantine tank that customers knew about but could not buy from until fish were healthy
That could go several ways. It would be great for those that are serious, but unless it is a true QT, meaning that every fish is seperate, then it doesn't do much and may make others think that they don't need to quarantine the fish themselves.
-free water testing done in front of customer
Absolutely, with a liquid test kit.
-RO water for sale (where filter change was dated so you always knew you were getting pure water)
-Online interaction (blog/web sales)
Again

-tanks that had little messages on them (almost like recommendations - i.e. "Kole tang - great algae eater")
eh, not so good. We don't want people buying tangs for diatoms or other algae that it will not eat, and we certainly don't want them being bought for tanks that are too small or cannot otherwise support them.
-clean store with one solid color (either white or blue)
-coral tanks that had had large colonies and frags
-special order book for fish, inverts, corals
I very much agree here
-employees who actually gave proper answers to questions and were not know-it-alls
I very much agree. A proper staff is essential.
-a rewards program where you got money back for every so much spent
-good stock of literature so that customers could read up on stuff they were interested in (authors to include: Fenner, Calfo, Sprung, Borneman, Paletta, etc.)
Absolutely. You want them to enjoy the experience and not only come back, but tell their friends as well!

 

[snakeblitz33]

I agree with all of the above. I believe it is essential to not only keep customers coming back with certain rewards programs, but also have great employees. The only thing about the employee part is that you will rarely find a person who knows anything about saltwater and freshwater aquaria that are willing to work for $8/hr.
Also, about the quarantine tanks, I feel that it is best to quarantine fish for at least 3 days minimum to make sure they they are eating properly and such. I would have to keep up with ordering enough fish so that one batch would be sold, while the other is in quarantine. Which makes the most sense.
Free tests with a liquid test kit are a given! lol.
I never thought of the filter dates being posted. If someone wants me to, I will do a TDS test as well on the water.
I am also considering dating my saltwater as well, if I have time and can remember it.
I guess what I need to do on my end is come up with some sort of check-list for opening everyday.

 

[regina13]

The only thing I don't agree with is a solid color. I like having the fish on a darker wall so they stand out, it draws people to the fish.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Well, I was thinking about a darkish blue for the background walls. Also, I was thinking about painting the different sections of the fish, say red for agressive, light blue for peaceful, Green for reef safe, and on the freshwater side, red for agressive, light blue for moderates, and green will go with anything. I am going to put up signs above the tanks as to what the colors mean.
I like to mix things up a little... lol. I also think that by doing that, I won't have so many customers coming in and not finding anything because they didn't know what they were looking for.
I was also thinking of putting note cards with the fishes name, price, food, and "compatable with" cards in front.
Also, so that none of my employees argue that a fish is not what the customer says it is, they can go in a little booklet that I will have printed up with a picture of the fish, some information about it, and a bar code, so they can scan in the price that I have set. Nifty, eh?

 

[lion_crazz]

I am not really sure I like any of those ideas and here is why:
With the colors idea comes the problem about those questionable fish choices. What do you consider aggressive? Is it the same as what I consider aggressive? To me, a basslet or dottyback is an aggressive fish, but surely, these guys belong in the reef safe section first before the aggressive section because they will be eaten by typical "aggressive fish" like lions, groupers, and triggers.
The note card idea will not work because you will be making so much work for yourself. It will also look too much like a ***** and there will be much disagreement with the food and compatible with. You may think a trigger and lion are compatible whereas I do not agree with that.
The bar code will also not work because fish prices constantly change from week to week. Again, you will be making more work than neccessary for yourself.
Just a few thoughts..

 

[lion_crazz]

A couple ideas about some of my previous suggestions:
-The quarantine tank would be for treating very treatable things like bacterial and fungal infections, lymph, HLLE, etc. This way, you can isolate a fish and do whatever it takes to get a fish back to health. The customers will also know that you do not just leave ill fish in the systems without being attended to. The only thing the quarantine will not work for is parasites, since once the first fish shows signs of parasitic infection, you know it is in the system and the whole system will have to be treated. Although, the quarantine tank would be great for treating brooklnella.
The little messages would work like your note card idea but be a little more effective because in the end, they are just little notes. They are not definitive statements, but more of a spotlight on a certain fish so that the customer asks, "Hey, I saw you had a little note about this fish. What about this one for my tank?" And then a conversation is started and the customer is given an idea, rather than them just walking around blindly not knowing what they are looking at or for.

 

[snakeblitz33]

lion,
With the notecard thing, I think that's what I am mainly getting at, is that it shows what fish there are to give a customer an idea and spark a conversation. If it doesn't work, then I will just take down the cards. lol.
And yes, quarantine's are great for fungal infections, however not so much for parasites. But then again, people like to know that I take care of my fish, just like you said.
The different coloring of the walls I think is a great idea. I understand that you would consider dottybacks agressive, however I think I would classify them as reef safe, and on the notecard say that they are semi-agressive toward other tank mates.
The bar code thing will work with the POS system that I am buying. Just enter in the prices and go down the list, easy peasy. Just take an hour or so to enter them in every week. It would probably take me longer to write out the prices on a clip board. Clip boards to me look unprofessional. Anyways, just my opinion.
Thanks for the concerns, lion! I really appreciate you taking the time to critisize some of my ideas. It really makes me think and change those small but necessary things.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/2552146
A couple ideas about some of my previous suggestions:
-The quarantine tank would be for treating very treatable things like bacterial and fungal infections, lymph, HLLE, etc. This way, you can isolate a fish and do whatever it takes to get a fish back to health. The customers will also know that you do not just leave ill fish in the systems without being attended to. The only thing the quarantine will not work for is parasites, since once the first fish shows signs of parasitic infection, you know it is in the system and the whole system will have to be treated. Although, the quarantine tank would be great for treating brooklnella.
Excellent

I agree, you don't want unhealthy fish on display, that is an instant turn off.
The little messages would work like your note card idea but be a little more effective because in the end, they are just little notes. They are not definitive statements, but more of a spotlight on a certain fish so that the customer asks, "Hey, I saw you had a little note about this fish. What about this one for my tank?" And then a conversation is started and the customer is given an idea, rather than them just walking around blindly not knowing what they are looking at or for.
That is what the staff is there for. Little notes would certainly be helpful, but if you see a person blindly walking around, or when that person asks to get a fish, it is more important to have staff that would sell the person the RIGHT fish for their tank. Think about it. Most fish can be great in one tank and not work at all in others. I think a fully knowledgeable staff is much more effective.

 

[tizzo]

I went from title to post, so if it's been mentioned, forgive me.
In the corner, put a halfwall, with a TV playing a loop of Nemo, so the kids are occupied while mom shops, and talks...and talks and talks and talks! and shops.
I want to open a store also, and this is one inexpensive add-on I would definitely consider.

 

[sh00tist]

This is a really great thread and I wanted to chime in and maybe help you out a bit,it would be nice to see a really great fish store survive and prosper. I know a lot of us go to our LFS A LOT! and Im no exception. When I go Im usually after some sort of dry good if not Im ALWAYS looking for some interesting new coral so I always head to the place with the best FRAGS. If I was opening a store I would heavily focus on frags,every new decent looking coral that comes into the store should be fragged a little and put into a growout tank. If its big enough take a few frags and sell some of them but always try and keep a frag of each,you only stand to make money from them on down the road. I have a very large online retailer local to me and I go there alot as well. One thing I really like to see is how everything is plumbed and how their filtration is running and I love seeing the great big skimmers taller than me. This sort of thing may not impress the wife or the kids or some joe blow off the street but the serious reef keepers who you want for your core business really live to see that stuff. I would love to come into a store and see a big PH monitor,with temp,salinity,orp big and bold so you can see what is really going on in their system,it wouldnt be too tough to have an aquatroller monitoring it and send it up to a screen on the wall.One thing that really irks me about LFS's is the quality of merchandise they carry. I mean its always the same cheap lighting units crappy skimmers blah blah blah,how many times have I heard 'we can order it'? nine times out of ten if you say that then you have lost a sale,I can go home and order anything in the world off the internet and get it cheaper and just as fast. We are reef addicts here so we are all very prone to IMPULSE BUYING. If Im thinking about a nice new Euroreef skimmer sure I can order one but if its friday night and my wallet is fat and you have one in stock I will more than likely pay a little more just to take that bad dog home. If you want to sell reef be serious reef,have nice bulbs,not racks of normal output that I dont need. Stock things that you know people are going to want as they get farther into reefing. The first thing that comes to mind is an auto top-off. There are tons of them out there but go try and buy one at your LFS. Make one for a display and show people how simple they are to set-up and use. I made mine with a Kent float some RO line and a rubbermaid,you could make a couple up and charge double. Ive seen several comments about documentation of specimens. Ive never understood how the LFS spends all this money for exotic fish then just dump them in a tank,so many fish perish because of this when its really unnecessary. Setup some sort of spread-sheet on your puter listing every fish,when it came in,QT,when it may have eaten and what,any details you can give about that creature will improve your chances of selling it. Serious reefers are all about quality over quantity so dont get a tank full of damsels and fifty other fish in a shipment,try and get a few fish at a time and keep them healthy,dead fish have to be the greatest loss a LFS can face second maybe too employee theft. I actually have a small LFS that is going under right now simply because of so many fish dieing during and right after shipment. Another great thing I love about my LFS is they will give me store credit for my frags. I get 6 bucks in credit,he sells them for 15,since Im getting credit hes really only out 3 bucks if it dies or he cant sell it,but if some guys arent healthy or die you can know not to buy his frags again,refer to the documentation above. I hate the way they catch fish at most every LFS,after they turn all the rocks over and chase the poor thing around the tank I really dont even want the stressed out creature coming home with me. At least have a piece of plexi about the width of the tank you can slide in there and immediately cut the tank in half. Dont pile a bunch of corals in with your fish they are just in the way and get beat to death.

 

[sh00tist]

Have a few decent size tanks that you can keep really nice and clean with good flow instead of 20 little tanks with virtually no flow and everything cloudy and half dead. There is so much science involved in reefkeeping but when I go into a LFS I see nothing that relates to science short of the scales they weigh the rock on. First of all a very clean sterile(technique)environment is crucial. Keep everything as clean as possible,wear rubber gloves whenever a hand enters a tank,its a PITA but very professional and a lot less things will die for 'no' reason. We are trying to recreate the ocean here,sell some things that will help us,dont sell 58 different kinds of reef supplements that noone really needs. Sell some decent 2-part and make a huge batch of DIY 2-part(google it) package it and set it right beside the name brand stuff for half the price and still make a ton of profit. Make your own CA reactor with your acryllic skills and sell them right in your store,make up a sump,a refugium put them on display maybe list the benefits,be different get some real reefers in there we will spend a ton and keep coming back.You have a huge water column,use it. Get a big tub of some DIY rock going that you can start selling in a few months,you can sell bags of pods for a FORTUNE,macro algae(good luck finding some at your LFS or even someone who knows what it is let alone what it does).carry some Mrs.Wages lime,get some big chart showing the relationship between PH,CA,alkalinity,difficult subjects that really need to be understood could be explained easier with visual aids not just words. Dont tell me whats wrong with my water tell and SHOW ME exactly how to fix it. Try and do little things for people you know spend a lot of money there. I buy a frag or two a week every now and then maybe someone will give me a few loose polyps that probably will get lost in the frag tank anyway and hell Im thrilled! People remember little personal things.Im never impressed by the great big displays full of fish that I cant have or shouldnt even be kept in a tank,I like seeing a great big tank full of frags I know I can take home. I hope I helped you out a little maybe gave you an idea or two and I wish you the best of luck. Its such a vast topic to try and cover. If you sell a wrass that buries itself in the sand(tamarin,coris,radiant...) put a couple of inches of sand in the baggie you put them in and double brown paper paper bag in the darkish fish room not out at the bright counter,the fish will go right to bed and the mortality rates will decrease dramatically. Get a puter back in the fish room,I know its hard to hire anyone that knows much about reefing,but any snotnosed teenage brat can GOOGLE and tell you anything you need to know about any creature or product,good luck :}

 

[snakeblitz33]

Thank you Sepulatian, Tizzo, and especially shootist.
Sepulatian,
You have some great ideas, and I definately think that I would be working too hard with the notecards, when all I need is a knowledgeable staff to make up for it. I think that at least listing something with the fish would strike a conversation and make the sale. Although, it's very hard to find anyone that knows anything about freshwater and saltwater in my area that isn't also a customer with a high paying job.
Tizzo,
I didn't think of that! That's a wonderful idea, and I think I am going to incorporate it into my plan. I was thinking about something like that, but with the news or something that I was interested in, but I bet having finding nemo and the reef and shark tales playing in a loop would definately keep the kiddies occupied instead of messing with my tanks.
Shootist,
Alright, I think I got it. Frags. Impulse buying. spreadsheet with fish. carry great dry goods. Don't carry too many chemicals. Don't stress fish. Don't mix corals and fish.
Wear rubber gloves. Display information and explain better. Give away little things here and there. Get a computer in the fish room to search for livestock. (may have some problems with that.) There are a lot of other things in what you said that I found very helpful. Both stores in my home town sell macroalgae, but they focus too much on water changes (because they make a lot of money off of selling saltwater) I am going to have a few open displays, meaning all of the plumbing, the sumps, the skimmers, CO2 and Ca Reactors will all be able to be seen. I'm trying to think of all the things that I like and dislike about the two local stores here in town and those are some of the major points.
The people in town already always seem so secretive. Like, they will hide all of their equipment, and if you want to see their filtration systems or their lighting systems they won't let you.
Anyway, that is all for now. I will get online later today and check everything. Thanks for the information guys!

 

[17cuddlefish]

What you could that would be really cool is have a mini library of Tank keeping books. Mabey have one or two chairs or something like that. Than people will come to your store for knowelge and will mabey buy something when they are there. Sounds kind of cheesy but i think it would be cool.

 

[snakeblitz33]

cuddlefish,
Most of the time, people would rather ask for information from an experienced hobbyist rather then wading through four to six books and not find what they were looking for.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion though! I am going to carry a good amount of books for sale, however. I just don't want people coming for the info and not buying anything. That's just a concern.
Anyone else think that is a good idea, or a waste of money?

 

[alix2.0]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/2550893
If you do not know the full story of a situation (or only know one side), you should not always be quick to make a comment. There are plenty of people on these forums that work at pet stores, and a few that even run them or have some involvement in the business-end of them. The member you referred to did not get banned because he owned a fish store.
A lot of cool ideas in this thread.

im just saying, if you start the store, dont be pluggin it on SWF. just tryin to give some friendly advice.
im sooo sorry.

 

[fuz_munky]

Do they listen to your needs? yeah! they are looking for a lettuce nudi for me atm!
Why do you go to your local fish store?
cause i cant afford to go to florida!
what could they do different in your local store?
. . . more space. . . its a little claustrophobic in there lol
how many display tanks do they have?
2. . . more would be nice though. . . it shows the quality of
the store your entering
Do they have anything unique? not really
Would you go more often if there was some fort of aquatic entertainment? I.E. bala shark/stingray petting zoo...
YEAH!
Are the people secretive about what they do?
nah they let me check out their whole set up!
Does the staff seem knowledgeable, is it frustrating to talk to idiots?
the staff is smart and knows what they are talking about and don't hide anything from you