Concealed carry on campus--good or bad?

prk543

prk543

Member
Here is more food for thought. Its not just the nut cases going into these gun free school zones and harming people. Criminals also realize that "hey there aren't guns here" We can go rob these kids and nobody will be able to fight back. Why? There is no risk. Where i went to college, the only thing you could carry that was a weapon was a wedlock pocket knife that was under 4". Well yeah at least you could carry a knife you say, but they aren't much use when you are looking down the barrel of a gun. Don't even get me started on High Schools where boy scouts are suspended because they forgot to take their swiss army knifes off their key chain.
This is an example of what I have received in my school e-mail account:
1/31/08:
UNC Charlotte Police Advisory: Robberies Near Campus
When the UNC Charlotte Police Department verifies that a serious incident has occurred and could impact the University Community, we issue an advisory to increase everyone’s awareness and safety.
Mon., 01/28/08, approx. 8:30 pm, Alexander Glen Dr. – As a student was walking along the road, a man, armed with a handgun, attempted to rob him of his wallet. The suspect left the area without obtaining any money/property from the suspect. Charlotte Mecklenburg Police responded and are investigating. The suspect was described as male; black; approx. 18 yrs old; approx. 5’8” and a small thin build; wore dark sweat pants and a dark hooded jacket; armed with handgun.
Wed., 01/30/08, approx. Midnight, Bonita Ln. – As a student was exiting his vehicle at his off-campus residence, a man, armed with a handgun, attempted to rob him of his wallet. The victim had a small amount of money on him at the time which the suspect took. The suspect then forced the victim back into his vehicle and forced him to drive to various ATM’s in an attempt to obtain additional money. The suspect exited the vehicle and let the victim go. Charlotte Mecklenburg Police responded and are investigating. The suspect was described as male; black; approx. 22 yrs old; approx. 5’10” and a small thin build; wore dark sweat pants and a dark hooded sweatshirt; armed with handgun.
For your safety:
Walk/jog/bike in groups of three or more in well-lighted and well-traveled areas … Avoid using headphones or cell phones, which are popular robbery items … Avoid wearing flashy or expensive jewelry. Wait until you are inside a safe place/event to put it on … If alone, call UNC Charlotte Police Department’s free safety escort service at 7-2200 … On campus after dark, use one of 200+ "blue light" emergency phones to request an escort or report suspicious activities. … Keep doors and windows closed and locked at all times. Do not open the door to strangers. … Immediately report suspicious persons to the police as well as to on-duty security officers and landlords.
Now that is an example of what I have received in my time at school. I have seen a lot more. Note how these are both students. There have been two incidents where students have been shot in the leg after being robbed, one was across the street from the main entrance to the university.
If responsible citizens were allowed to legally carry in these areas, it would provide another deterrent to those who wish to do others harm.
Now I do wish that the process and training for a concealed carry permit would require more than what is currently required, but that is a topic for a new thread.
-Prk543
 
bdhutier

bdhutier

Member

Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2475177
At the risk of derailing my own thread I submit that the disrespect for life we see in our society can be tied directly to abortion. There is no respect for the unborn, so why should there be respect for any life?
I whole heartedly agree, Salty...
 
bdhutier

bdhutier

Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2475002
I'd imagine you'd need some serious training to be able to use a gun effectively in a situation like this. Can you imagine sitting in class and having someone brust through the door firing on the teacher and your fellow students? I can't imagine even if you were packing your first thought would be to pull you gun and fire back. I think the more natural response would be pure shock, then you'd process the situation, then you'd either try and flee or seek cover. By this time a gunman could easily have fired 20 + shots.
A better option would be metal detectors at the entrance to each building.
Disagree. As a former cop, who's come VERY close to shooting a subject, there was no hesitation drawing my weapon, and beginning the trigger squeeze... none whatsoever. All I can say is he's lucky he ceased when he did. I'm not sure how many point-somethings of a second he had to live, but when I released the trigger and holstered my weapon, the hammer was in half-co-ck. Close...
Training is important, but need not be as intensive as you may think. I believe anyone well familiarized with thier weapon would do fine, and 99% would react appropriately. Where training available to the public is really lacking is in weapons retention. But that comes into play in a completely different scenario.
The thing is, when you're carrying a weapon in public (whether concealed or not), it's ALWAYS on your mind... what I mean is, you're always conscious of it. It's not like you're going to forget you have it, and run away.
It's anecdotal, but I was in high school during the upsurge in gangs (Bloods, Cryps, etc.). We never once had any issues with them in our town other than petty issues. Why? I'm no criminologist, but I'm betting it had to do with every third vehicle on the road having a shotgun and/or rifle in the back window...

*edit: Reworked this sentance to read what I meant to say. "Training is important, but not as important as you may think"
 
sciknen

sciknen

Member
i agree completely
few things
not sure who send it but they were sayin if people had guns on campus there wud be more spontaneous shootings?
of all the "big"(it sounds wrong) that i know about
columbine- made videos tellin why and of their training not spontaneous
VT- nut job not spontaneous
NIU- im hearing now not spontaneous
so as far as i know all these people are planning this stuff out not just on a whim be like wow life blows i wanna kill some innocent people how look i have a glock in my back pack let me kill people
now i know if someone came into a room shooting id take cover
then id be like i got a gun n i wud hope i cud kill the guy
yea kill him not just wound him
n this is a total diff sub then abortion
abortion is mostly religious.
you cud blame our "disrespect on life" on alot of things
maybe abortion- i never got one??? but i have no prob killin someone who trys to kill me
violence in video games- prob not
adult entertainment idk but i love it
we disrespect life because we take it for granted. not babies for granted but our own lives
maybe you just need to spend some time with people who know what its like to have a gun in their face and have to make a choice instead of just sittin in ur comfy chair blamin the worlds problems on abortions.....just wondering not all countries allow abortions.... does that mean the countries have no violence or problems.....
i agree with scsinet
its not abortion or videogames its bad parenting
i know my parents cudve done a better job but they did good enuff job so i dont kill people
if parents took some time to tlak to thier kids learn to discipline them and stop havin police raise em
the world wud be much better off
 
sciknen

sciknen

Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2475141
You could be right.
It is easier for a 16 year old to get weed than cigarettes in many cases.
whats so bad about that
weed aint gonna give you cancer PROVEN
there are studies in which it can cause recession in

[hr]
cancer look it up
and believe it or not if you have any self control it will not lead to other things
at least no more then alchol or cigarettes
 
sciknen

sciknen

Member
Originally Posted by KerriAnn
http:///forum/post/2475123
which is exactly why guns need to be completely removed from society...again, that's my opinion and a very controversial one at that but i have yet to see ANYTHING positive about guns
i know something positive
PROTECTION
if we take guns out of society nobody has them LEGALLY not even cops only the military
are you that naive that you dont think people will be able to get them?
do you think because something is ILLEGALLY its impossible to have it
wake up not everyone follows the law
if there were no guns
and then i got one illegally
i cud do some serious damage(rob banks easily, rob homes easily)
 
bdhutier

bdhutier

Member
Originally Posted by sciknen
http:///forum/post/2475357
if there were no guns
and then i got one illegally
i cud do some serious damage(rob banks easily, rob homes easily)
And the cops would have a good time chasing you around, trying to get you with tazers and OC pepper spray, all the while you're hosing them with your illegal handgun.
 
ric maniac

ric maniac

Active Member
Originally Posted by bdhutier
http:///forum/post/2475401
And the cops would have a good time chasing you around, trying to get you with tazers and OC pepper spray, all the while you're hosing them with your illegal handgun.
Exactly why guns should be kept in society. I'm gonna have to say yes and no to having guns at school. If staff went through training, then they should carry guns or even tazers. But I don't think that guns should be allowed on a students person at any time. And sciknen, use English please, it gave me a headache to read your posts...
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2475002
...
A better option would be metal detectors at the entrance to each building.
That won't work for many reasons...
*How many buildings, on average, does a University in the USA have on campus? How many doors in each building? So, now we need multiple shifts of 2 guards for each door to monitor and enforce the metal detectors.
*You see how slow the lines move at the airport or courthouse? Now imagine a bunch of college students who have 10 minutes to get from building to building to make the next class.
*Students not allowed to carry any metal objects?
Logistically and cost-wise this is not an option.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by KerriAnn
http:///forum/post/2475108
i understand what everyone's saying but honestly, i think more guns is just adding more fuel to the fire. in most of these shooting cases there have been NUMEROUS warning signs, personality disorders, etc. i haven't read much about the NIU shooting because, simply, i'm tired of giving these psychos attention. i can see how having somebody carrying may be helpful but honestly, if i was a teacher/professor and i had to shoot someone i seriously could not do it. i mentally cannot cause bodily harm to anyone. i'd sooner jump on top of the problem and sacrifice myself before i could cause any sort of harm. and these students who are looking to just murder people are going to pick up on the people like me that they know wouldn't be able to shoot if in a situation that most would. so whats the theory here? hire a classroom guard for each and every classroom across the nation?? absolutely impossible. these problems need to be attacked from the get go. there needs to be some sort of control put into place to keep these guns out of the hands of these people. while most won't agree with me, i feel that guns should be outlawed. nothing good comes from them and, in my perspective, that's going to be the first step to ANY sort of resolution in this matter
Hindsight is 20/20.
Are we going to lock up every suicidal or "goth" teen? (Think Columbine). Are we going to lock up every person on Anti-Depressants? (think the last couple of University shootings)
Outlawing guns will do the same thing that outlawing drugs has done. The law abiding citizens won't have them, and the criminals will keep using them...
Kerri, we can't stop drugs manufactured in Afghanistan from making it into the USA by the tons. How are we going to stop criminals from running guns?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by KerriAnn
http:///forum/post/2475123
which is exactly why guns need to be completely removed from society...again, that's my opinion and a very controversial one at that but i have yet to see ANYTHING positive about guns
By Joel Rosenberg
"On July 15th, 1991 -- five days after my daughter's first birthday -- at just about four in the morning, the burglar in our bedroom reached a hand under the covers, on my wife's side. Felicia came awake instantly, and shouted -- "There's somebody in the room!" and I snapped awake and shot out of bed, shouting -- bellowing, Felicia says -- something to the effect of how I was going to get my gun and kill the *******
I think the burglar was already fleeing when I yanked open the drawer. I remember thinking, as I pulled out my then newly-acquired 9mm Ruger P-85 -- yes, the same model that Colin Ferguson recently used to kill a bunch of unarmed commuters -- that I had to get a good view of him before I shot him, because our one-year-old daughter was across the hall in her room, and for all I knew, he was holding her. And I remember thinking that if he was holding her, I'd have to shoot low and hit him in the legs, or high, and shoot him in the head.
Or both.
But we had a trigger lock on the Ruger, and in the dark I couldn't find my keys, so I ran to the bureau and ripped open the locked bag with the .22 target pistol in it, fumbled in the dark until I found its magazine (a politically incorrect 13-round magazine, by the way) and slammed it into the pistol, racking the slide as I ran to check on Judy -- who, thankfully, slept through the whole thing.
I remember thinking that the slide had worked too easily, so I wasted a round by racking it again, dumping a cartridge on the carpet, and then I carefully pushed the safety switch off, toward that little F for Fire --
-- and took a deep breath.
My wife and daughter were safe, and they were behind me, and there was no sense in gambling, chasing a burglar or burglars off into the night.
So I just crouched at the top of the stairs, no doubt very unromantic looking in my jockey shorts with the potbelly hanging over the waistband in front, thinking that if one of them came up the stairs I'd put three rounds in his chest, and one in his head. (Actually, I distinctly remember thinking, "I'll put three warning shots in his chest, and one warning shot in his head." It didn't seem funny then.)
And I also remember reminding myself not to put my finger on the trigger until I had a target to shoot at, and I never did end up putting my finger on the trigger that evening, because they had all run away, and and when the police arrived -- I'm told it was less than five minutes; it felt like a couple of years -- we were dressed, and went downstairs to look at the damage.
At least three of them, probably four -- it would take at least two people lift our large-sized TV set, and it looked like one of them was working on the VCR and another was emptying out Felicia's purse while the third came upstairs. There's some reason to believe it was the gang known as the Nokomis Bandits, who we read about a few days later, a gang of four who had steadily ratcheted up their level of violence; if so, we got off a lot easier than most of their victims.
As such things go, it wasn't all that bad.
They got: Felicia's Banana Republic bag; her credit cards and wallet, containing about $30 cash; about $20 in a container of quarters we keep -- kept -- for change; our huge Sharp TV set; my answering machine; her keys, credit cards and ID; a TV cable; my business card case; a few other odds and ends.
And they took our sense of security. Our home didn't seem to be the safe place it was before.
Oh -- and they got another thing, something I only noticed a couple of days later, when I went to carve a roast: they took a butcher knife from the kitchen.
I sat down and shook for a few minutes. And I didn't mention it to Felicia for a number of months. A butcher knife.
Neither Felicia nor I slept through the night for many months, and even now I wake quickly at the slightest sound.
.....
Every time I hear the latest cry to take handguns away from ordinary citizens (and, of course, those few criminals who are willing to obey such laws), I think about the night we lucked out, and how glad I am that such laws weren't in force that night.
And I wonder -- I'll never know -- what he and his friends would have done if instead of bellowing, "I'm getting my gun and killing the

[hr]
?" I'd said, "Please don't hurt us, please?"
Fled anyway? (And where was that butcher knife?)
Maybe."
How many more you want? I'll post as many stories as you want to read.
 
clown boy

clown boy

Active Member
I haven't read this whole thread, but I just thought that I'd quote something that another member said here that I really like. This is for the anti-gun people.
There are only two people at the scene of a crime when it happens: The Criminal and the Victim.
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2474969
It has been suggested by Whitey in the NIU shooting thread to please start a new thread, so I shall.
Do you think that allowing persons(teachers, students) with concealed gun carry permits to carry them on campuses would be a good idea or bad. I personally think it is an excellent idea. It might not stop some nut from attempting a shooting, but I think it could lessen the number of their potential victims.
How would you determine those carrying weapons for defense vs a nut job student or professor with a permit and it's pop goes the weasal time?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2475520
How would you determine those carrying weapons for defense vs a nut job student or professor with a permit and it's pop goes the weasal time?
You really can't.
The thing is though that people planning a rampage are not very likely to go through the licensing process, then attend the class that most states make you attend for a carry permit just so they can shoot up the place.
In most if not all cases, a carry permit is just not the easiest path, when carrying it illegally is just easier.
This is the thing that the anti-gun crowd just doesn't get. The people who commited these atrociites (VA Tech, Columbine, etc) were already breaking the law before they ever pulled the trigger by having the gun at the schools to begin with. The pro-rights crowd has maintained (myself included) that the gun-free zones only disarm the law abiding. We are seeing that proved correct every time one of these shootings happens
How can the antigunners claim that these gun free zone laws are working when this sort of stuff continues to happen?
on a college campus that would be ...well retarded
drunk+gun=dead
Again... college students are allowed to legally own cars. They are allowed to legally own tequila bottles, or knives, or pencils. All are deadly weapons when used as such. Why are you not crying foul that college kids might get drunk and run another down? Or if you are, why are you not pushing to outlaw cars or pencils on college campuses?
 
jennythebugg

jennythebugg

Active Member
a college campus is private property and i supposed if the property owners want to allow firearms then they will . i guess i am not as gung ho on my right to bear arms as others but i see no reason WHY a campus would do that other than for the security guards ,yes theres the occasional psycho that goes on campus and does this horrible thing but i would sooner say that all campuses should be closed/gated/metal detectored to cut down on unwanted visitors because as it is anyone can just walk right in on most campuses
this most recent shootewr was liscensed and got his guns and ammo legally
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
OK, let's look at this another way. Obviously some folks just don't like guns for one reason or another and believe that law abiding persons should not have access to them in certain locations(campuses).
So how about if some nut busts in a class with no gun, but say a big stick or a knife, and proceeds to attack people. Do people then have a right to grab a stick or a knife or a chair or anything for that matter, to defend themselves? Or should they just sit there and take it. Why should a gun be off limits to defend yourself, but not other items?
The fact is a person can kill another with their bare hands. Why is a line drawn when it comes to guns. Because they are more deadly? When you're dead you're dead, it doesn't really matter how you were killed.
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2475632
a college campus is private property and i supposed if the property owners want to allow firearms then they will . i guess i am not as gung ho on my right to bear arms as others but i see no reason WHY a campus would do that other than for the security guards ,yes theres the occasional psycho that goes on campus and does this horrible thing but i would sooner say that all campuses should be closed/gated/metal detectored to cut down on unwanted visitors because as it is anyone can just walk right in on most campuses
this most recent shootewr was liscensed and got his guns and ammo legally
How much freedom do you want to give up in order to feel "safe"?
 
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