Concealed carry on campus--good or bad?

kerriann

Member
i'm not saying its going to eliminate the problem but it will over time minimize the problem. the horse we should be pursuing is why is this happening?? why is it that over the past how many years these teens have come to the theory that instead of just dealing with problems in a rational manner they can just go on a killing spree and have a media tribute to their death. and i still say it all comes down to LACK OF PARENTING!
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
If it’s not a gun then it will be a knife if not then a stone or bare hands or even a home made bomb it’s not the instrument that the sick individual uses to commit the crime it’s the sick mind behind the instrument that must be stoped
 

ci11337

Active Member
That is a great idea, students who are good people and know how to use a gun should be allowed to carry one. Guns don't kill people, bad people do. If they did this lives would be saved.
 

scsinet

Active Member

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2475840
If it’s not a gun then it will be a knife if not then a stone or bare hands or even a home made bomb it’s not the instrument that the sick individual uses to commit the crime it’s the sick mind behind the instrument that must be stoped
Glad someone gets it.
People kill people. Guns are not the reason people are killed, they are merely the weapon of choice.
I made this point on another thread a while back... currently, death beams do not exist. Ergo, we have no death beam violence. So are there tons of people out there, who would kill people if they had a death beam, but do not because they can't get one? Or are these people using guns instead? ... it seems like that's what the anti-gun camps want you to believe. With no guns... people would be just "unable to kill."

You say... that this logic is silly... it's impossible to compare because death beams don't exist!
True... but let's pretend that guns suddenly vanished. Would all these killings just stop? No... people would just choose the next best thing. Swords? Sticks? Boards with nails in them? Rocks? I've got it... let's ban rocks. And swords. Wait... I can kill someone with my bare hands. Let's ban hands.
The gun is not the problem. The person pulling the trigger is the problem.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2475568
on a college campus that would be ...well retarded
drunk+gun=dead
Nothing stops a drunk student from going home, getting a gun, and "=dead"
Everyone keeps losing the proper perspective here. In every state in the USA a 21 year old can buy a handgun. Nothing is stopping that.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2475689
How much freedom do you want to give up in order to feel "safe"?
Again.. someone gets it.
Anti-Gun crowd: Security guards. Metal detectors. Checkpoints. Fences... gates... guard dogs...
Attacking the symptom but not the problem. The killings are a side effect. The guns are a means. The CAUSE is the people doing the shooting. In the meantime all of this crap just robs people of their freedoms and causes paranoia and fear.
Keriann makes a good point.... we need to examine society and figure out why it's happening. Unfortunately, that's where our agreement stops.
You cannot expect people to take responsibility for one's self (by saying that we need to figure out what is actually causing all the shootings as a root cause analysis, but at the same time declare people irresponsible to use guns responsibly. You can't have it both ways.
Take responsibility for yourself. This is America. If you want guards, police, and the military to take care of you, move to communist China.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2475632
this most recent shootewr was liscensed and got his guns and ammo legally

This thread is not about legally owned guns used for killings. This thread is about legally carrying guns on campuses. You can legally own a gun, and may or may not have a permit to carry it concealed on your person. Regardless, you can't legally carry it on campuses.
The thing that fascinates me here is that the anti-gun crowd is saying that we need to keep restrictions in place on campuses.
Yet at the same time, they are making a "point" of saying that the guns are carried onto campuses nonetheless.
Legally has nothing to do with it. It's illegal to carry them on campuses, no matter what permits you have.
A pant-load of good that law is doing, huh? Imagine that... the shooters don't care that carrying their gun (legally owned or not) onto campus is illegal. Well... I'm shocked.
So the point of keeping the laws as is is what again?

But let's ban laws all togehter. Then the criminals will stop, because it's illegal.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by KerriAnn
http:///forum/post/2475799
i'm not saying its going to eliminate the problem but it will over time minimize the problem. the horse we should be pursuing is why is this happening?? why is it that over the past how many years these teens have come to the theory that instead of just dealing with problems in a rational manner they can just go on a killing spree and have a media tribute to their death. and i still say it all comes down to LACK OF PARENTING!
I cannot possibly argue with you here. I served as a Youth Minister for 13 years. Trust me when I say I've seen the effects of idiots raising kids... "Why" this is happening is obvious to me. Numerous studies have documented the breakdown of the "family" over the past 30 years.
That said, our Nation is moving more and more away from "parenting" and more towards "communal raising" every year. These issues will get worse, not better. KerriAnn, if you can figure out some way to restore the morality of the 40's back into mainstream America write a book. Every Minister in North America will buy 20 copies.
Until then, we must face two realities:
1. Guns are, and will always be, available to criminals
2. There are sick and evil people in the world.
 

acrylics

Member
Criminals do not care what the rules are, by nature - they are going to break them. All people I know with concealed permits respect the hell out of the responsibility they carry, have to go through background checks, have to be at least 21, and go through a process to get the permit. These really are not the people we need to worry about shooting up the schools or any other place. Someone had stated that this guy in IL was licensed; he was licensed to own firearms, but not to carry. There is a difference.
The idea that allowing folks to carry concealed to help is tough though, most shootings are over in seconds, under a minute at the most. By the time you figure out what's going on, find cover, gain your wits, pull your CCW, find the bad guy, and take a safe shot, the situation is most likely over. So having a CCW will most likely not help, it could though - no question. BUT, the idea that many do carry on campus may provide much of a deterrent to the bad guy doing this in the first place. Which may provide the answer to your question of "why this sort of thing didn't happen 30 yrs ago?", because my school was not a gun free zone and many people may have been carrying. A "gun free zone" is a zone full of people that cannot defend themselves against people who do not care about the rules, as such they are easy targets.
The notion that it (carrying on campus) will give the shooters more ammo is silly. If you are carrying *concealed*, how is the bad guy going to know you have ammo for him?
The notion that we are going to get rid of all guns is simply not going to happen.
As for campuses being private property, some are, some are not. Private colleges are well within their rights to say yes or no to guns on campus. Private property owners make their own rules for their own property.
If you wanted to make a special class of people who can carry on campus, fine, make the background check similar to an NFA check but those are generally not the people we as society, really need to worry about.
Blame bad parents/parenting all you want, but that will not change to environment. And even if some nationwide instant parent correcting problem *could* take place - would take at least one generation to see the effects in student behavior. Also, these are adults in college we are talking about. Over 18, call them kids if you wish but they are in fact adults by law and responsible for their own decisions. Certainly influenced by their childhood, but we all are.
In the IL case, IMO it's a monumental mess up on the part of the state of IL. This guy spent time in a mental institution after high school and reports are that he was discharged fromt he military due to mental health problems. There is no way he should have been allowed to get the shooter's license to even own a firearm in the first place. The law was in place to potentially prevent this, the state of IL screwed up.
Lastly, in the state so CO and UT, concealed carry is allowed on state campuses and these are among the safest campuses in the country, no incidents whatsoever since allowing concealed carry.
JMO
 

whitey

Member
For those of you saying that these scum bags would be detered from shooting up a school because of the possibility of a student returning fire, you just don't get it.
These school shootings have all ended in the scum bag taking his own life. They are going into it prepared to die. Their mission is to kill as many innocent people before killing themself.
I'm not gonna get into the gun discussion because it's utterly pointless. Those of you who think everyone should be allowed concealed weapons will never sway the opinions of those who don't and vice versa.
Marijuana will never be legal, and guns will never be banned. I've never understood why these things are discussed so much. Neither thing will EVER happen.
 

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Whitey
http:///forum/post/2475982
... Their mission is to kill as many innocent people before killing themself.
....
And they go to environments where it is easiest to do so. What better place to shoot a bunch of people than a "Gun Free Zone"?
At VT the shooter chained the doors shut and wandered around shooting people. In the latest shooting, the shooter hit 22 people. How many shots did he take? How many times did he reload?
Allowing CCW permits to extend to campuses is not a perfect solution, but in both of these cases lifes could have been saved.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Getting back to the original question should guns be allowed on campus by licensed owners I am a Florida canceled carry permit owner yet I can not go on school grounds or at a sporting event or bar with my weapon BUT that does not have any effect on the criminal sorry he does not play by the same rules when lives are in danger force must be meet with equal force be it a school or in your front yard when faced with that danger the victim cares not about how it came about that the good guy with the gun saved their and others lives only that he did restrictions on law abiding citizens only give more freedom to the outlaws
 

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by Whitey
http:///forum/post/2475982
For those of you saying that these scum bags would be detered from shooting up a school because of the possibility of a student returning fire, you just don't get it.
These school shootings have all ended in the scum bag taking his own life. They are going into it prepared to die. Their mission is to kill as many innocent people before killing themself.
I'm not gonna get into the gun discussion because it's utterly pointless. Those of you who think everyone should be allowed concealed weapons will never sway the opinions of those who don't and vice versa.
Marijuana will never be legal, and guns will never be banned. I've never understood why these things are discussed so much. Neither thing will EVER happen.
You are right. They won't be deterred from shooting up a school. That is not the point of allowing concealed carry. The point would be to minimize the number of potential victims.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Knowing there is the possability of an armed person on campus will deter some. Not all of those who take their own life actually set out to do that. At a minimum the loss of life would have almost certainly been reduced in many of those cases if a qualified person had a weapon available.
I would like to see every school disctric in the country be required to have at least one willing staff member be professionaly trained to handle a firearm that is in their secure care on school grounds.
 

duckhunt

New Member
Take a look at the facts on this case issue:
Crimes with registered guns and those without registration.
You try and defend yourself with a scream, Ill stick to the first of many guns that are in my arsenal that are in reach.
CHL is another license that I worked hard to get and will forever keep.
 

tangman99

Active Member
I went to the UF when I was a cop and I never carried my weapon on campus. I always left it in my vehicle. I never gave a second thought though to someone shooting up a campus in the 80s as it just wasn't something going on back then. There were several spots on campus that you didn't go at night because people were getting robbed. All major universities have them. My friends used to think I was nuts because I would purposely walk through them at night hoping to catch someone. I did see several people on those paths that were obviously there to do that but I guess I just didn't look like a victim.
One thing everyone should know that carries or thinks about carrying a weapon. When you are put in a life or death situation to the point where your reactions take over, you will do exactly what you have trained to do without thinking and often not even remember doing it. If you have not trained, more than likely that is exactly what you will do. Nothing. That is why police officers constantly train and do shoot/no shoot drills and requalify every year.
If I was still a police officer and going to college would I carry today? Probably not.
 

jennythebugg

Active Member
I know that my first reaction out of anger was to grab the gun(ex husband abusing child)there was not a second thought about it ,how was that necessary ,it wasnt, but i did it anyway because it was there. and it was my first reaction and i dont think i am abnormal, luckily my daughter talked me down .i just think about how many of the younger crowd get into fights at school whats going to be their first reaction ? walk away? i don't think so ,it's going to be to pull that gun . i am afraid if you throw guns into the mix its gonna make things worse...sorry thats my personal opinion and its not going to change, you have yours and i respect that. but i am not going to pay to send my child to an institution of higher learning where every third kid in class is packin
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2475969
I cannot possibly argue with you here. I served as a Youth Minister for 13 years. Trust me when I say I've seen the effects of idiots raising kids... "Why" this is happening is obvious to me. Numerous studies have documented the breakdown of the "family" over the past 30 years.
That said, our Nation is moving more and more away from "parenting" and more towards "communal raising" every year. These issues will get worse, not better. KerriAnn, if you can figure out some way to restore the morality of the 40's back into mainstream America write a book. Every Minister in North America will buy 20 copies.
Until then, we must face two realities:
1. Guns are, and will always be, available to criminals
2. There are sick and evil people in the world.
once i will agree with you
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2476203
I know that my first reaction out of anger was to grab the gun(ex husband abusing child)there was not a second thought about it ,how was that necessary ,it wasnt, but i did it anyway because it was there. and it was my first reaction and i dont think i am abnormal, luckily my daughter talked me down .i just think about how many of the younger crowd get into fights at school whats going to be their first reaction ? walk away? i don't think so ,it's going to be to pull that gun . i am afraid if you throw guns into the mix its gonna make things worse...sorry thats my personal opinion and its not going to change, you have yours and i respect that. but i am not going to pay to send my child to an institution of higher learning where every third kid in class is packin
How many college aged kids do you think are going to go through the process/training to get a concealed carry permit? If there is an instance of a person with a CCP getting mad and shooting someone I can't find it.
 
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