Concealed carry on campus--good or bad?

[duckhunt]

How many college aged kids do you think are going to go through the process/training to get a concealed carry permit? If there is an instance of a person with a CCP getting mad and shooting someone I can't find it.
I can name three right now in the group of guys that I go to school with. Sure I live in a southern state and the people that I hang around are all hunters, not killers, but it is not that uncommon to find plenty of "college aged ?KIDS?" with permits. I highlight kids because you do have to be 21 to even join the class or purchase the gun.

 

[bronco300]

i have a very hard time seeing this being extremely productive...it may scare away the badguys who are there to blow away as many as they can...but not sure it would even stop it with the reasonings behind some shooting, being made fun of, picked on etc...i see a college saying ok, any student may carry a gun online..they take the course, start showing it off to friends and act all big and bad look at what i got this weekend...who can get the bigger gun..and becomes more than just safety but just the pure fact of having funs and showing them off to everyone....or i could see a killer coming on campus like normal and start shooting people, and then 20 other so people start in on the shooting trying to take out the killer, not really thinking, just trying to do what they can...but instead there are lots of missed shots and other casualties as the result of "friendly" fire--they may not consider the consequences of their shots as much as a trained cops, guards, etc.......or maybe someone who would really never think about causing harm to another decides he wants to be safe as well and carry....he gets picked on a ton, but would never really hurt anyone...and one day he gets pushed over the top and starts thinking and feeling at his gun...and the rampage starts between the bully and the other kid and they just start firing at each other without a care of anything else.....i don't know...i like the idea of being safe as much as the other person, but i don't know....i'd rather have them have to use a stick or a knife, it'll take much longer to kill people before someone can jump on him that him having a gun that he can just blast off rounds....maybe just having a metal detector isn't quite the best idea...with the time frame students have, but rearrange things, make it work somehow....why not more guards, yes it doesn't quite solve it either, but its a start instead of having to wait for the cops to come in, the guards can be much closer and much better trained that some student taking the minimums to get themselves a gun....hard to get security right, but i don't see allowing guns on a campus the best answer either....just my opinions...i don't have the perfect answers, but everyone can come up with something and fine tune it.

 

[salty blues]

I think some are jumping to wrong conclusions here. I've seen comments like "every other kid in class with a gun" or "a classroom full of guns". If CCP"s were allowed on campus, that doesn't mean everybody's gonna' run out and get a gun and a permit. It would just allow a lot of folks who already have permits the option.
Think about it. Odds are that some people you meet out in public every day are legally carrying concealed weapons. Why is it if you were to put some of these same people in a classroom or other setting that they would suddenly become dangerous?

 

[bronco300]

Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2476485
I think some are jumping to wrong conclusions here. I've seen comments like "every other kid in class with a gun" or "a classroom full of guns". If CCP"s were allowed on campus, that doesn't mean everybody's gonna' run out and get a gun and a permit. It would just allow a lot of folks who already have permits the option.
Think about it. Odds are that some people you meet out in public every day are legally carrying concealed weapons. Why is it if you were to put some of these same people in a classroom or other setting that they would suddenly become dangerous?

im not saying everyone will, but i could see it happening quick for people to go get guns because they want to be safe, and those that want to start carrying it on campus just to be cool...its cool to have that arm strap/holster to show off your strength and guns.......anyone with a gun can be dangerous, weather on a street or on a campus, yes the gun kills, but the person that carries it has to pull the trigger...so weather on campus or not that person could be dangerous....i think there is a lot more irresponsibility and immaturity in college kids still that although wanting to be safe, want to be cool and like the rest bringing guns on campus to show off, where the adults out there carrying are (hopefully) carrying with responsibility and realize it will be to protect and protect only, nothing more and have more knowledge of all the safeties and dangers of carrying.

 

[acrylics]

FWIW, showing off your CCW is considered either; "brandishing a weapon" and usually class A misdemeanor or "unlawful use of a weapon" which can be misdemeanor or felony. The point is *concealed carry* meaning nobody can see it and you wouldn't know it if they were carrying.
Keep in mind this is also for teachers, professors, and administration, not just the students.
Look at schools that already allow for this and see that it's not an issue at any of these schools. I understand the trepidation but is thus far unfounded in campuses where it is presently allowed so would see no reason for other campuses to be any different.

 

[scsinet]

Many college aged students, let's say 18-22 years, already have concealed carry permits. They simply can't carry on campus.
So where are all these college kids going to whip out their guns and show them off??
And as far as being cool... you can't just walk into a gun shop and walk out with a CC permit. There are classes and certificaitons that you must go through, and tests you must take. I have a hard time believing that they would go through all this trouble to be cool, when they can just buy weed and smoke that to look cool instead.
The fact of the matter is that a surprising number of people carry on a daily basis. You have no idea because you'll never see a law abiding concealed carrier reveal his weapon until he/she is ready to use it.
We've also seemed to focus on colleges in this thread.
We should also be talking about all schools.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2474981
So you think that otherwise law abiding folks who were allowed to carry on campuses would decide to start shooting people?
This person was a law abiding citizen... good student... steady relationship... and had obtained this gun legally.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2476203
I know that my first reaction out of anger was to grab the gun(ex husband abusing child)there was not a second thought about it ,how was that necessary ,it wasnt, but i did it anyway because it was there. and it was my first reaction and i dont think i am abnormal, luckily my daughter talked me down .i just think about how many of the younger crowd get into fights at school whats going to be their first reaction ? walk away? i don't think so ,it's going to be to pull that gun . i am afraid if you throw guns into the mix its gonna make things worse...sorry thats my personal opinion and its not going to change, you have yours and i respect that. but i am not going to pay to send my child to an institution of higher learning where every third kid in class is packin
You already are you just dont know it .
Take this in to account . I graduated in 91 and I know for a fact that at least a 4th of the graduating males in our class carried or had readily avalible fire arms on school property. There was always a Shotgun behind the seat of my brothers truck as well as in the trunk of my car . Granted we grew up in a rural area where it was the normal thing and every farmer and rancher has a rifle/shotgun in the back window to shoot at wild animals . I can tell you in the 4 years of highschool I never once needed to go get a gun but I got in plenty of fist fights and had my fair share of whoooooopins. Responsible people act acordingly and iresponsable people dont .

 

[shogun323]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2476642
You have no idea because you'll never see a law abiding concealed carrier reveal his weapon until he/she is ready to use it.
How true. As of 1/30/2008 there are 471,844 active concealed weapon permit holders in the great state of Florida. I think permit holders should definately be allowed to carry onto campuses especially if that is there place of employment.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by alix2.0
http:///forum/post/2475005
im not saying that everyone who carries a gun will use it. but i know from experience that if someone has a gun and they get angry enough there is a chance that they will lose control and use it. you want to give thousands of kids guns and believe that every single one of them will use it responsibly?
simply put CHL carriers have the lowest crime rates of any demographic in the US, besides dead people.
College campus's aren't full of little kids. They are adults.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2475568
on a college campus that would be ...well retarded
drunk+gun=dead
lol as someone who went to school in east texas, who has been in apartments with anything from 9 mm to AR-15 and AK-47s to hunting rifles. Shoot I knew someone with a 50 cal rifle. I would bet that the vast majority of male students had mulitple guns in apartments basically on school campus. (The whole town was basically the campus) And in 3 years, I never heard of anyone getting shot. With this hypothetical situation. Heck half the teachers were gun folk too.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by KerriAnn
http:///forum/post/2475152
i do not see ANY need for guns AT ALL! cops don't need 'em, civillians don't need 'em. there are not NEARLY enough controls in place to keep this use minimized. while i understand the military needs them they're insanely protected so those should not be any concern. it won't be a quick resolution removing all guns from society but it will in time have an effect. and why is it that after all these years school shootings have suddenly started happening?? we need to evaluate what's happening with society to cause this (LACK OF PARENTING!!) and address these problems. honestly, 30 years ago, how many school shootings have you seen????
Cops don't need guns? Wow, gang bangers, drug dealers and the such would love that.
No enough gun control? Have you read the Constitution? There is a good reason the 2nd Ammendment is there.
The military "insanely" protects its guns. Then how did someone steal a tank and go on a rampage?
There are not enough police to protect us all at all times. We have to rely on a responsible citizenry armed to protect us. The recent church, mall and school shooting have proven the old saying "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".
What is happening with society, well, it is the "great society" and the war on poverty which has replaced the family (fathers especially) and God ( or any church etc) with the government. This has removed personal responsibity from the picture.
I have trained with weapons, and shot at national matches. In the latest shooting the bad guy STOPPED TO RELOAD, just standing there. A responsible armed citizen could have ended the rampage right there.
None of the gun confiscation laws in Austrailia or the UK have changed a thing other than to create more victims.
I will happily defend you in addition to my family should the need arise. 3 taps and you're out

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2477193
This person was a law abiding citizen... good student... steady relationship... and had obtained this gun legally.
True, but he used it illegally and in a "gun free zone". See how well that worked. Those of us with CCL's would follow the law and leave our defense in the car. We're dead, following the stupid laws.

 

[stdreb27]

So this is how the they feel (taken for the Houston PD's web site.

This is how I see it

 

[bdhutier]

Stupid double-posts...

 

[bdhutier]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2477658
So this is how the they feel (taken for the Houston PD's web site.
Yep, that's the old "use of force" model. I'll try and dig up a newer one, but even that's changing to incorporate the old one. I learned it as, "Intent, Opportunity, and Capability. Then, they shifted to, "Risk Perception, Subject Actions, and Officer Response," to make room for and clarify the intermediate levels of force. Like I said, now they're adding the old triangle "IOC" model on top of it, as one unit.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by bdhutier
http:///forum/post/2477701
Yep, that's the old "use of force" model. I'll try and dig up a newer one, but even that's changing to incorporate the old one. I learned it as, "Intent, Opportunity, and Capability. Then, they shifted to, "Risk Perception, Subject Actions, and Officer Response," to make room for and clarify the intermediate levels of force. Like I said, now they're adding the old triangle "IOC" model on top of it, as one unit.
there is less opportunity when, the "victim is armed. Plain and simple.
Pardon the crappy photoshopping.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Bronco300
http:///forum/post/2476497
im not saying everyone will, but i could see it happening quick for people to go get guns because they want to be safe, and those that want to start carrying it on campus just to be cool...its cool to have that arm strap/holster to show off your strength and guns.......
(depending on the state) but for the most part you can't do that. The law is CONCEALED. You can't show your weapon unless you plan on using it (in a public place) I don't know about big cities, but shoot most people at my high school and college would come straight from hunting to class, then back out. Their rifles in the truck. That is just the way deer, dove, duck seasons were.

 

[reeferman1]

??????? LITTLE GUN HISTORY????
?It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law
to surrender 640,381
?personal firearms to be destroyed?by their own government, a program costing
Australia taxpayers more than
$500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
List of 7 items:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the
?law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still
possess their guns!
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed
robbery with firearms,
this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now
are guaranteed that
their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
ELDERLY. Australian politicians
are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental
effort and expense was
expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian
experience and the other
historical facts above prove it.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives?and property and ,?yes,
gun-control laws adversely
affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this
history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'.
Without them, we are 'subjects'.
?During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most
Americans were ARMED!

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Reeferman1
http:///forum/post/2477880
??????? LITTLE GUN HISTORY????
?It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law
to surrender 640,381
?personal firearms to be destroyed?by their own government, a program costing
Australia taxpayers more than
$500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
List of 7 items:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the
?law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still
possess their guns!
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed
robbery with firearms,
this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now
are guaranteed that
their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
ELDERLY. Australian politicians
are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental
effort and expense was
expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian
experience and the other
historical facts above prove it.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives?and property and ,?yes,
gun-control laws adversely
affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this
history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'.
Without them, we are 'subjects'.
?During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most
Americans were ARMED!
Can you cite your data?