Concealed Carry

[jovial]

Originally Posted by thirty5
Not sure how you think that is ignorant. A single vote is not likely to turn an election, but a single shot out of a gun being carried by a person that should not have a CC permit can hurt someone. How is that ignorant.
It seems more ignorant of you to just make a statement like that.
What if the shot was used to stop a crime?

 

[thirty5]

I guess you didnt read this entire thread. So read them all then come back and you can see the points of view that each person has. Ignorance is posting and not knowing the whole story!

 

[agent-x]

Originally Posted by thirty5
I guess you didnt read this entire thread. So read them all then come back and you can see the points of view that each person has. Ignorance is posting and not knowing the whole story!
How did iI not read and respond to exactly what you posted to me? You are apparently against CC and your reason for it is some vigilanty might get one. If people want to carry a gun around because the "want to shoot someone" they are going to do it with or without a CC. Now if your arguing the ease of getting the permit that may be true, but here in Texas we have to take a 10 hour class and show that we can handle the weapon.

 

[stdreb27]

WOW, come on this was a nice thread a few posts ago, And I don't think you read the entire thread either, You can tell, because your post is sooo off the wall from everything else being said.

 

[thirty5]

WOW a 10 hour class. That is amazing how much time is NOT spent. I had to spend over 40 hours for my training and go through many many many hours a year on refreshers.
Those classes are a joke. And being able to HANDLE a firearm does not mean that you will be able to shoot well nor will you be able to use the weapon correctly.
I am not totally against CC permits. I am against how lax the laws are and requirements to get the permit.
WOW a single 10 hour class and you can carry. You sould have to go through training say every 4 months or so if you want to keep the permit. If it is that important for people to carry then they will do what they have to, to carry.

 

[stdreb27]

I don't think it is vigilanty more so, stupid people, and he said he isn't against people with guns, but CC licenses with out proper training. Insinuating that it should be harder. My 4 family members who are also police officers say the same thing, and they are gun people, lots of guns.

 

[bigjohnson]

Glock 23 .40cal is what I carry

 

[deltablack22]

Originally Posted by thirty5
WOW a single 10 hour class and you can carry. You sould have to go through training say every 4 months or so if you want to keep the permit. If it is that important for people to carry then they will do what they have to, to carry.
Wooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Hold the phone. You try to advocate some crap like 4 month refresher courses and you will have law abiding citizens carrying illegally.
I knew it wouldnt be long before we disagreed.

 

[thirty5]

The way that i look at it. If you really want to carry a gun then you should have to make sure that you keep training. Im not saying that you need to take a 10 hour course every 4 months. But what is wrong with a 2 hr refresher. If you really want to carry then you will just do the training. And then you will not have law abiding people if they are carrying guns illegaly. And if they are caught they should be prosecuted just like the drug dealer with a gun.

 

[florida joe]

Call me crazy but if some one is snatching your child and I am around I am not going to be pulling just my keys out of my pocket no matter how much training I have had and I have had a lot courtesy of the good old united states army

 

[thirty5]

Joe,
I agree with that statement 100%.... If a child is being kidnapped, i would say that i would do what i would have to do to attempt to stop it, and i would not fault anyone for doing the right thing.
But how do you feel about if a wallet was stolen? Would then do the same thing?

 

[florida joe]

Well I guess that brings us back to the most important question, not how well trained you are but do you have the ability to weight the situation and then act accordingly, and to me the most important part is can you live with the decision you make. Would I draw my weapon to keep someone from taking my property, I may, would I use deadly force to keep him from taking it, of course not. Our forefathers lived by survival of the fittest it’s a shame we have to live by survival of the best prepared

 

[deltablack22]

I think NJ's strict stance on personal weapons has sunk into your brain. I realize your perspective is slightly different from mine, but the guys willing to take refresher courses are not the ones you need to be worried about. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure right? So instead of taking a class 3 times a year (nobody is going to buy into that garbage anyway) how about the problem be addressed at its source in the form of a high speed gun course.
Not only teaching basic laws/regs/nomenclature/target shooting, but have an advanced course of sorts where they could use those 9mm simulation rounds like we use and actually simulate real life scenarios. Refresher courses are not going to be beneficial no matter what your stance, until the shooter has a good foundation of knowledge and a little bit of muscle memory to begin with.

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by florida joe
Well I guess that brings us back to the most important question, not how well trained you are but do you have the ability to weight the situation and then act accordingly, and to me the most important part is can you live with the decision you make. Would I draw my weapon to keep someone from taking my property, I may, would I use deadly force to keep him from taking it, of course not. Our forefathers lived by survival of the fittest it’s a shame we have to live by survival of the best prepared
Cant agree more. If you remember someone earlier stated that they would EXECUTE someone as they were running AWAY after stealing something.
But training does fall into it. Training does not just mean using the wepon. It can mean training in shoot dont-shoot and stuff like that.

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22
I think NJ's strict stance on personal weapons has sunk into your brain. I realize your perspective is slightly different from mine, but the guys willing to take refresher courses are not the ones you need to be worried about. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure right? So instead of taking a class 3 times a year (nobody is going to buy into that garbage anyway) how about the problem be addressed at its source in the form of a high speed gun course.
Not only teaching basic laws/regs/nomenclature/target shooting, but have an advanced course of sorts where they could use those 9mm simulation rounds like we use and actually simulate real life scenarios. Refresher courses are not going to be beneficial no matter what your stance, until the shooter has a good foundation of knowledge and a little bit of muscle memory to begin with.
I agree with you there also. I only said that more training cause a 10 hour class is bull. I would love to see the syllabus for the course. You need real training. Hands on, either a FATS machine, or simunitions, or even paintball guns. Simunitions are the best i feel cause using real guns. I would love to put a simunition gun in someones hand who thinks they can shoot under stress and run a real scenario. I bet i would be able to tackle them and not even get shot.
But it is not always quanitity of training, quality is much more important. But what is given now is nowhere near the quality that it should be. So More of the crap training is better than nothing, i guess.

 

[deltablack22]

Originally Posted by thirty5
I agree with you there also. I only said that more training cause a 10 hour class is bull. I would love to see the syllabus for the course. You need real training. Hands on, either a FATS machine, or simunitions, or even paintball guns. Simunitions are the best i feel cause using real guns. I would love to put a simunition gun in someones hand who thinks they can shoot under stress and run a real scenario. I bet i would be able to tackle them and not even get shot.
But it is not always quanitity of training, quality is much more important. But what is given now is nowhere near the quality that it should be. So More of the crap training is better than nothing, i guess.
Your right... I guess I took defense because I really didnt understand your position. The courses are a joke, but I really dont worry about them because I'm not currently in a law enforcement capacity and I also feel that the majority of people that would even go to the trouble of obtaining a permit are probably reasonably proficient with firearms. I'm not usually a betting man, but I'd wager to say that most have previous law enforcement or military backgrounds.
I still agree that a better course should be put into place. I would say that the states on the Concealed Carry Agreement should come up with a standard course that could be taught by the local sheriffs department as well as local ranges that agree to follow the syllabus. This would be a very good way to ensure that these people are trained to a standard that is accepted across the nation.

 

[deltablack22]

Originally Posted by thirty5
So More of the crap training is better than nothing, i guess.

Agreed 100%

 

[stdreb27]

Personally, I think the CC license in TX is more of a straining course, than a training in personal defense. So "they" know that these people that are buying guns legally are not felons and such. And a refresher on the laws, a cya type deal. These are the legal situations for using a weapon. I don't think anyone should walk into that class thinking that they are getting self defense training. But that is my two cents on the value of weapons training.

 

[deltablack22]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
Personally, I think the CC license in TX is more of a straining course, than a training in personal defense. So "they" know that these people that are buying guns legally are not felons and such. And a refresher on the laws, a cya type deal. These are the legal situations for using a weapon. I don't think anyone should walk into that class thinking that they are getting self defense training. But that is my two cents on the value of weapons training.
We arent talking about self defense training as much as training on "proper employment of the weapon". The important thing being that they are able to discern the correct situation to use their weapon, and when not to. Obviously self defense would be part of it, but knowing that the shooter is comfortable enough with the weapon to maintain positive control in a tense situation would be more important in my eyes than wheather or not he could hit a paper target at 10 yards.

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22
We arent talking about self defense training as much as training on "proper employment of the weapon". The important thing being that they are able to discern the correct situation to use their weapon, and when not to. Obviously self defense would be part of it, but knowing that the shooter is comfortable enough with the weapon to maintain positive control in a tense situation would be more important in my eyes than wheather or not he could hit a paper target at 10 yards.
It still makes me laugh to think that the AVERAGE JOE will be able to defend them selves with a weapon. I have to believe that MOST people will not be able to with a gun. I am not saying puching, screaming, and such like that cause that is NORMAL to do. Without the training it will not be automatic with a gun. Unless you walk around all the time with your hand on the weapon which is disaster for a mistaken shoot. Also you have to realize depending on what gun you have, some have safetys on them, and UNLESS you practice where you remember to take the safety off then there is another problem. Like i stated earlier in a post, it comes down to training which develops muscle memory. Meaning that you wont even have to think about what you have to do, your muscles will do it before you even think. I mentioned earlier a situation that i was in where i was in a very confrontational situation where all of a sudden i looked up and my weapon was on target in front of my face. I didnt even think, it was just there. THat is what is needed to PROPERLY carry a weapon which takes alot of training.
So to restate my direction on this whole thread for those people who do not want to read all the posts. CC permits are OK as long as they are issued properly and enough training is given. I am not saying that the permits are not given properly even though some states my daughter (4 yoa) could prob get one

. BUt the training anywhere in the country is not high enough for my liking.