Death Row to Harsh? what you guys think
- Thread starter caomt
- Start date
darth tang
Active Member
danedodger
Member
nw2sltfsh
Member
I dont mean to bring up a bad thread again - but I wanted to share with all of you something that my family found out today
Suspect in fatal Apollo fire mentally ill, attorney claims
On Sept 2 a man set fire to the home that my step sister lived in with 3 of her children - the fire spread quickly and killed all of them. This man later went to the police and confessed stating he never meant to hurt anyone. He then explained in great detail WHY and HOW he did it and that he felt bad so he went back to the house in an attempt to put the fire out but realized it was out of control.
This Man is now claiming he doesnt understand his actions --- So tell me how is this fair?
the DA called today to state that IF there is a trail it cannot be anysooner then 2 years
By Michael Miller
LEADER TIMES
Thursday, January 19, 2006
KITTANNING -- An Apollo man suspected of setting a fire which killed a mother and her three children is mentally ill and not able to understand the charges against him, his attorney said in a petition to the court.
Debra Yost, a public defender appointed to represent Frederick A. Robinson, 51, said in court papers that Robinson gives "inappropriate" answers to her questions and "seems unable to comprehend the seriousness of his circumstances" and requested that Robinson undergo a psychiatric evaluation.
Robinson is charged with setting a Sept. 2 fire at the Clifford Avenue, Apollo, home of Crystal Johnson, 41. Johnson and her three children, Rebecca White, 11; Jacob Patrono, 5; and Cynthia Johnson, 2, all perished in the fire.
Yost said in her filing that she has "reasonable grounds to believe that (Robinson) is mentally disabled" and may not be competent to stand trial or be aware that what he allegedly did was wrong.
"Due to the bizarre and unusual nature of the way in which the alleged crime was committed with which the defendant is charged and the unusual and bizarre circumstances regarding the statement he made to police, counsel believes and therefore alleges that there is a reasonable basis to believe that the defendant is and/or has been mentally ill," the attorney wrote.
Armstrong County District Attorney Scott Andreassi, who is seeking the death penalty in the case, said he consented to Yost's request for an evaluation, but hasn't seen the results of it yet.
"We're still waiting on the report," he said.
Because Andreassi is seeking the death penalty, Armstrong County President Judge Joseph A. Nickleach appointed attorney Bob Stewart, who was co-counsel representing James Tatar, to help Yost defend Robinson. Yost is excluded from representing Robinson alone because she does not meet state Supreme Court requirements for trying capital cases.
In his order appointing Stewart, Nickleach said the attorney would work on the case at a rate of $40 per hour, with a total amount not to exceed $15,000.
Neither Yost nor Stewart could be reached for comment yesterday.
Suspect in fatal Apollo fire mentally ill, attorney claims
On Sept 2 a man set fire to the home that my step sister lived in with 3 of her children - the fire spread quickly and killed all of them. This man later went to the police and confessed stating he never meant to hurt anyone. He then explained in great detail WHY and HOW he did it and that he felt bad so he went back to the house in an attempt to put the fire out but realized it was out of control.
This Man is now claiming he doesnt understand his actions --- So tell me how is this fair?
the DA called today to state that IF there is a trail it cannot be anysooner then 2 years
By Michael Miller
LEADER TIMES
Thursday, January 19, 2006
KITTANNING -- An Apollo man suspected of setting a fire which killed a mother and her three children is mentally ill and not able to understand the charges against him, his attorney said in a petition to the court.
Debra Yost, a public defender appointed to represent Frederick A. Robinson, 51, said in court papers that Robinson gives "inappropriate" answers to her questions and "seems unable to comprehend the seriousness of his circumstances" and requested that Robinson undergo a psychiatric evaluation.
Robinson is charged with setting a Sept. 2 fire at the Clifford Avenue, Apollo, home of Crystal Johnson, 41. Johnson and her three children, Rebecca White, 11; Jacob Patrono, 5; and Cynthia Johnson, 2, all perished in the fire.
Yost said in her filing that she has "reasonable grounds to believe that (Robinson) is mentally disabled" and may not be competent to stand trial or be aware that what he allegedly did was wrong.
"Due to the bizarre and unusual nature of the way in which the alleged crime was committed with which the defendant is charged and the unusual and bizarre circumstances regarding the statement he made to police, counsel believes and therefore alleges that there is a reasonable basis to believe that the defendant is and/or has been mentally ill," the attorney wrote.
Armstrong County District Attorney Scott Andreassi, who is seeking the death penalty in the case, said he consented to Yost's request for an evaluation, but hasn't seen the results of it yet.
"We're still waiting on the report," he said.
Because Andreassi is seeking the death penalty, Armstrong County President Judge Joseph A. Nickleach appointed attorney Bob Stewart, who was co-counsel representing James Tatar, to help Yost defend Robinson. Yost is excluded from representing Robinson alone because she does not meet state Supreme Court requirements for trying capital cases.
In his order appointing Stewart, Nickleach said the attorney would work on the case at a rate of $40 per hour, with a total amount not to exceed $15,000.
Neither Yost nor Stewart could be reached for comment yesterday.
tangman99
Active Member
Yeah that really P's me off also, but it is the way our system works. Defense attorneys do whatever they can to try and force a deal with the state because they know that the state is going to have to pay out of the behind to take him to trial and dedicate a lot of time and resources to the case. If he has a public defender, the state gets to pay for all of his expert witnesses also. Just because they claim it though does not mean anything. It's up to the DA to decide if they agree and they will use their own experts to evaluate him. If they feel that their expert witnesses can suppress the claim of the defense they can choose to go to trial and let the jury decide based on the evidence. If they feel it could be a toss up, they will probably offer the defense a deal.
If it were me, I would make sure the DA knows that I was adamant that this guy go to trial (if that is your wish). In the end, the DA is going to do what they feel is in the best interest of the state, but it does not hurt to remind them that there are people who have to live with this every day.
If it were me, I would make sure the DA knows that I was adamant that this guy go to trial (if that is your wish). In the end, the DA is going to do what they feel is in the best interest of the state, but it does not hurt to remind them that there are people who have to live with this every day.
danedodger
Member
Yeah, the "mentally ill defense" bothers me a lot too. I'm mentally ill at a level that it interferes with my daily life in some ways. My sweetie is so seriously mentally ill that he's on disability. Neither of us are out starting fires or would ever want to harm anyone! Don't you think that EVERYONE who commits these kinds of crimes is mentally ill in some way??? Jeez, I think they'd HAVE to be! If they are SO seriously mentally ill that they can't tell right from wrong, reality from not, there should've been some sign of it earlier in their lives that someone SHOULD'VE caught on to!! Even if it's a more recent development the vast majority of legitimately mentally ill people do not just suddenly in the blink of an eye go completely out of their gourd ill enough to do something so serious.
But ok, for the sake of arguement let's say that this guy's illness did indeed go unnoticed until it culminated in this act of arson and he truly, honestly, did not mean to harm anyone. Does that bring back the lives lost??? No. Does that mean that the next time he does this the people inside will somehow be magically protected from death??? No! So the public still needs to be protected!
As a Wiccan I've wrestled, debated, and given a ton of thought to "intent" and matters of ethics/morals. Our only "commandment" is "an it harm none do as ye will." Oh great, so I can do whatever I like and as long as no one gets hurt I'm good!!! Hah, not really, it's a lot more complicated than that!! How do we define "harm" and who does it apply to? When I breathe I'm killing living organisms so am I breaking the rule? If I am then it's a useless rule because it's impossible to live by it but if I'm not does that mean that the rule counts for some but not others? Where's the line? It's ok to kill single celled creatures but not more than one celled? Creatures without a brain but not with one? Invertebrates but not vertebrates? Animals but not people?
Wouldn't anyone consider it harmful to cut someone open???? Well what if you're a surgeon and you're cutting into healthy tissue to get at and remove a cancer? Then is it suddenly not harmful or is it ok because the result is for the greater good? Then where do you draw the line with it? Where does INTENT come into play and how?
Another part of Wicca is to never cast without our intentions being "pure". So what does that mean exactly? I've had some moments of pure hatred in my life so does that count??? If I pick up a gun having no idea what it is or what it does, it goes off, and I kill someone am I still good because I didn't INTEND to hurt anyone? The person is still dead no matter what I intended! If I didn't make the connection between the gun and that person dying other people are still in danger of being killed! And how can anyone but the Divine ever actually know 100% without a single doubt what my intention really was? Jeez, in all my years I've found that it's tough to even know myself what my true intentions are without really working on it sometimes!!!!
People seem to view the "mentally ill defense" too simplistically for my tastes these days. It should not be a frickin get out of jail free card!!! There's still a LOT to consider!
But ok, for the sake of arguement let's say that this guy's illness did indeed go unnoticed until it culminated in this act of arson and he truly, honestly, did not mean to harm anyone. Does that bring back the lives lost??? No. Does that mean that the next time he does this the people inside will somehow be magically protected from death??? No! So the public still needs to be protected!
As a Wiccan I've wrestled, debated, and given a ton of thought to "intent" and matters of ethics/morals. Our only "commandment" is "an it harm none do as ye will." Oh great, so I can do whatever I like and as long as no one gets hurt I'm good!!! Hah, not really, it's a lot more complicated than that!! How do we define "harm" and who does it apply to? When I breathe I'm killing living organisms so am I breaking the rule? If I am then it's a useless rule because it's impossible to live by it but if I'm not does that mean that the rule counts for some but not others? Where's the line? It's ok to kill single celled creatures but not more than one celled? Creatures without a brain but not with one? Invertebrates but not vertebrates? Animals but not people?
Wouldn't anyone consider it harmful to cut someone open???? Well what if you're a surgeon and you're cutting into healthy tissue to get at and remove a cancer? Then is it suddenly not harmful or is it ok because the result is for the greater good? Then where do you draw the line with it? Where does INTENT come into play and how?
Another part of Wicca is to never cast without our intentions being "pure". So what does that mean exactly? I've had some moments of pure hatred in my life so does that count??? If I pick up a gun having no idea what it is or what it does, it goes off, and I kill someone am I still good because I didn't INTEND to hurt anyone? The person is still dead no matter what I intended! If I didn't make the connection between the gun and that person dying other people are still in danger of being killed! And how can anyone but the Divine ever actually know 100% without a single doubt what my intention really was? Jeez, in all my years I've found that it's tough to even know myself what my true intentions are without really working on it sometimes!!!!
People seem to view the "mentally ill defense" too simplistically for my tastes these days. It should not be a frickin get out of jail free card!!! There's still a LOT to consider!
jmick
Active Member
Originally Posted by jdragunas
now that's not fair. Do you deny the existance of God then? because there are people appointed by God to kill others... Just people don't believe it anymore.
I’m happy I took the time to read this because this is some really entertaining stuff. I love it when people try to use god and the bible to make a point.
now that's not fair. Do you deny the existance of God then? because there are people appointed by God to kill others... Just people don't believe it anymore.
I’m happy I took the time to read this because this is some really entertaining stuff. I love it when people try to use god and the bible to make a point.
1journeyman
Active Member
Point of clarification:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."... (Jesus, in Matthew chpt 5)
Does the OT call for Capital Punishment? Absolutely.
Does the NT call for it? iffy at best....
Remember that the OT Jews were living under the Law. Jesus came to fulfill the Law. We can't take the OT laws without studying NT context.
The Bible in Romans tells us that "All have sinned" and the "wages of sin is death".
IF you believe the Bible THEN you must understand that sin has condemed all to death. Only through grace can one be forgiven.
I'm not arguing either side of the death penalty. I totally understand it (if someone hurt someone I know/love I'd probably pull the trigger first..) but I can also honestly say if I was on a jury I'm not sure I could vote for it (I don't want to be responsible for ending someone's life and thereby ending their chances at the Grace they need to accept in order to be forgiven).
So, carry on with the debate. I just wanted to put the Scripture into the context as I understand it.
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."... (Jesus, in Matthew chpt 5)
Does the OT call for Capital Punishment? Absolutely.
Does the NT call for it? iffy at best....
Remember that the OT Jews were living under the Law. Jesus came to fulfill the Law. We can't take the OT laws without studying NT context.
The Bible in Romans tells us that "All have sinned" and the "wages of sin is death".
IF you believe the Bible THEN you must understand that sin has condemed all to death. Only through grace can one be forgiven.
I'm not arguing either side of the death penalty. I totally understand it (if someone hurt someone I know/love I'd probably pull the trigger first..) but I can also honestly say if I was on a jury I'm not sure I could vote for it (I don't want to be responsible for ending someone's life and thereby ending their chances at the Grace they need to accept in order to be forgiven).
So, carry on with the debate. I just wanted to put the Scripture into the context as I understand it.
nw2sltfsh
Member
You know up until Sept 2nd I was against the death penalty - but I really dont know where I stand now
I lost 4 people in my family in ONE day because someone decided they wanted to set a fire - then admit it -- then say they are mentally ill
This person Knew my step sister - knew she had 3 kids in the house - And it was the middle of the night
My point being if you have ever personally been hit with something of this magnatude and you then have to explain to your children that their aunt and cousins are dead then you tell me how you would feel
the Mentally Ill plea makes me sick, I would perfer to life in prison for him then more time in the hospital
I lost 4 people in my family in ONE day because someone decided they wanted to set a fire - then admit it -- then say they are mentally ill
This person Knew my step sister - knew she had 3 kids in the house - And it was the middle of the night
My point being if you have ever personally been hit with something of this magnatude and you then have to explain to your children that their aunt and cousins are dead then you tell me how you would feel
the Mentally Ill plea makes me sick, I would perfer to life in prison for him then more time in the hospital
37g joe
Member
Originally Posted by caomt
do you have a religion? would you say that if your brother was in that spot? they are now re looking at evidence and finding some people innocent.. did you know it cost us money? 2mil+ to execute someone 800k for keeping someone 40 years in jail
I am pro death penalty and I feel if my one of my siblings was to commit a cold bloaded muder they should be put to death yes it would be difficult but nessecary and the only reason why the death penalty is so expensiv is becaus of all the appeals and junk a bullet to the head is only a few cents it sounds harsh but its true. In the past people where affraid to goto prission now peopl commit crimes so they can go back to jail. People well always commit crimes but if we where strict and did not give so many luxaries to prisoners than people would think twice befor comiting a crime.
do you have a religion? would you say that if your brother was in that spot? they are now re looking at evidence and finding some people innocent.. did you know it cost us money? 2mil+ to execute someone 800k for keeping someone 40 years in jail
I am pro death penalty and I feel if my one of my siblings was to commit a cold bloaded muder they should be put to death yes it would be difficult but nessecary and the only reason why the death penalty is so expensiv is becaus of all the appeals and junk a bullet to the head is only a few cents it sounds harsh but its true. In the past people where affraid to goto prission now peopl commit crimes so they can go back to jail. People well always commit crimes but if we where strict and did not give so many luxaries to prisoners than people would think twice befor comiting a crime.
37g joe
Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Point of clarification:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."... (Jesus, in Matthew chpt 5)
Does the OT call for Capital Punishment? Absolutely.
Does the NT call for it? iffy at best....
Remember that the OT Jews were living under the Law. Jesus came to fulfill the Law. We can't take the OT laws without studying NT context.
The Bible in Romans tells us that "All have sinned" and the "wages of sin is death".
IF you believe the Bible THEN you must understand that sin has condemed all to death. Only through grace can one be forgiven.
I'm not arguing either side of the death penalty. I totally understand it (if someone hurt someone I know/love I'd probably pull the trigger first..) but I can also honestly say if I was on a jury I'm not sure I could vote for it (I don't want to be responsible for ending someone's life and thereby ending their chances at the Grace they need to accept in order to be forgiven).
So, carry on with the debate. I just wanted to put the Scripture into the context as I understand it.
Well the new testament talkes about how Jesus well come back and Slay all those who fight against him and thier well be blood as far as you can see. If christ is our example well you get the drift
Point of clarification:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."... (Jesus, in Matthew chpt 5)
Does the OT call for Capital Punishment? Absolutely.
Does the NT call for it? iffy at best....
Remember that the OT Jews were living under the Law. Jesus came to fulfill the Law. We can't take the OT laws without studying NT context.
The Bible in Romans tells us that "All have sinned" and the "wages of sin is death".
IF you believe the Bible THEN you must understand that sin has condemed all to death. Only through grace can one be forgiven.
I'm not arguing either side of the death penalty. I totally understand it (if someone hurt someone I know/love I'd probably pull the trigger first..) but I can also honestly say if I was on a jury I'm not sure I could vote for it (I don't want to be responsible for ending someone's life and thereby ending their chances at the Grace they need to accept in order to be forgiven).
So, carry on with the debate. I just wanted to put the Scripture into the context as I understand it.
Well the new testament talkes about how Jesus well come back and Slay all those who fight against him and thier well be blood as far as you can see. If christ is our example well you get the drift
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by 37g Joe
Well the new testament talkes about how Jesus well come back and Slay all those who fight against him and thier well be blood as far as you can see. If christ is our example well you get the drift
I'm going to need the reference of that scripture so that it can be taken into context. I suspect you are referencing Revelation but I'd like to see where exactly you are getting this before commenting more.
Well the new testament talkes about how Jesus well come back and Slay all those who fight against him and thier well be blood as far as you can see. If christ is our example well you get the drift
I'm going to need the reference of that scripture so that it can be taken into context. I suspect you are referencing Revelation but I'd like to see where exactly you are getting this before commenting more.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by NW2SLTFSH
You know up until Sept 2nd I was against the death penalty - but I really dont know where I stand now ....
That makes perfect sense to me.
It's easy to oppose the death penalty on paper. Once a tragedy strikes close to home, however, I'm sure it becomes a much more gray area.
You know up until Sept 2nd I was against the death penalty - but I really dont know where I stand now ....
That makes perfect sense to me.
It's easy to oppose the death penalty on paper. Once a tragedy strikes close to home, however, I'm sure it becomes a much more gray area.
mudplayerx
Active Member
The only thing I don't like about the death penalty is that it takes too long for the felon to actually be put to death. I don't like my tax money being used to feed rapists and murderers.
lovethesea
Active Member
Originally Posted by mudplayerx
The only thing I don't like about the death penalty is that it takes too long for the felon to actually be put to death. I don't like my tax money being used to feed rapists and murderers.
AMEN
The only thing I don't like about the death penalty is that it takes too long for the felon to actually be put to death. I don't like my tax money being used to feed rapists and murderers.
AMEN
jessesdiet
New Member
NAIL THEM UP I say.
Wouldn't fancy going to jail though...
Wouldn't fancy going to jail though...
oceanists
Active Member
I believ if you murder somebody , it eye for an eye tooth for a tooth ........ If we didnt execute the sick people who think murder is ok we would a have to many inmates and taxes would raise to an even more ridiculous amount ............ Think about if your 2 3 year old daughters were tied up raped and murdered ........... what would you want to happen to the person who did this ........... I would want them fried and i would want to be the person who turns that switch on So hell no the death penalty isnt to harsh