Democrat or Republican?

[farmboy]

The Bible also says to love one another. God has a soft spot for the poor. I believe we are to help our fellow man. This can be monitarily or through physical needs (food and shelter) or spiritual and emotional support (maybe to help stop some things that cause poverty).
However, this should be voluntary - not as a mandate of goverment.
99% of the people don't want to see little children starving-there are just different visions on how to prevent it.

 

[jer4916]

Problem is there is 5907045983075002784350 bobs in this country. Bob needs to learn from Bob #2 and fix his own problems, its like with a child..if you keep babying them ..they'll grow up to be babies and never change...if baby 1. sees baby .2 get smacked upside the head for doing something stupid. baby 1. is apt to not do the same stupidthing.
let bob suffer...his own fault...help him find a job...dont give him your money.
giving money = continued lazyness
helping find job = movement.

 

[jer4916]

Bible teachs local church, church and state are two different things. In our church we help our poor members. but thats in our church and its out of the love of Jesus Christ our personal savior. Getting my taxes taken out to support teens who have babies is a completely different thing.

 

[jer4916]

...look at Sodam and Gamora .... people seem to forget that whole story.... He didn't hold there hands...he wiped them out.

 

[jer4916]

Also, just so someone doesn't think " there church only helps out there own members" ..no ..because our church is one of the most evangeligcal churchs in our town, we preach at the jail, prision, mission ...etc...we are very loving and donate our TIME to poor people and help them find jobs. We do not give money to any of them...we supply them with a place to live for a short while to get on there feet..and we send them on there way...they are welcome to stay in our church if they choose ...but there time is limited in where they stay.
on an off note
i dont need someone saying were not " teaching all nations"
im a pastoral student...so i thought i should clear that one up, before something got thrown in the air when it shouldn't have

 

[tizzo]

Both of those posts I can agree with. I actually think that healthy men shouldn't qualify for assistance period!! I know that may offend some people, but I don't care.
But the woman I met through a United way Christmas thingamabob was 67 years old raising her daughter's 3 kids on her SS check. She was raising them because the childrens parents got killed in a car crash. That woman deserves assistance. That is an unfortunate circumstance that happens to a lot of families, but don't make the news. United Way, my mom being in charge of this mission, surprised this poor woman on Christmas morning with a truck load of gifts for the children. The woman was a proud woman, but could not have been more grateful.
Proper welfare systems is what this country needs, not a free handout to anybody who don't feel like holding a job.

 

[farmboy]

In the Body of Christ (that's you and me) we are supposed to reach out to the unchurched and help the poor and the homeless etc. There are brothers and sisters who council teens with unmarried pregnancies, and so on and so on . . .
I agree with you that money should not be TAKEN from taxpayers who don't want to support these efforts. We should be reaching out more, then there would be much less of a need for the GOV to do it.

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by Jer4916
Getting my taxes taken out to support teens who have babies is a completely different thing.

I can see your point here, but if our streets were lined with single mom's and their babies homeless and hungry, because you didn't want to give up a percentage of you check to prevent it, well that's just selfish!
And in actuality, the "teen" should be recieving child support, but instead dad is in prison for whatever reason leaving mom with a baby and no money or healthcare. And while you are going to the prison reassuring the inmates, his "consequence" is out here suffering and your judging them and saying they should pay the price for their mistakes...
***I hope you understand, I am simply debating with you. I am not saying these things in anger, I am simply pointing out the other perspective. Lemme clarify now, if I offend you or if thisconvo makes you "Mad" lemme know and I'll quit writing. Thus far, IMO, we are having a discussion, not arguing or fighting. If we are arguing or fighting in your opinion then I apologize now because that is not my intent. ***

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by Farmboy
I agree with you that money should not be TAKEN from taxpayers who don't want to support these efforts.
Not me!! I think it should be taken. For the overall greater good of this country and it's people, I think our gov should act as sort of a "Robinhood" if you will.
Our country is too far advanced, too rich, and has way to many conveniences to leave anybody behind. While we sit in our AC, typing on our cumputers in a house most of us own, I cringe to think you'd be OK letting a person with a child nonetheless, stay out in the cold or heat just because "they got themselves into that situation" and if we help them we are saying it's OK to have kids and no job etc etc... I can see that perspective, but it's not a reality. It will never be a reality. If we stop aiding the "underfunded" if you will it will cause riots, gangs, crimes, way to much damage that will in the long run cost triplicate to repair. Not to mention all the people screaming at the gov for stopping their aid.
Without medicaid, hospitals business will plummet, causing RN's and other staff to get laid off. Then THEY need assistance to get another job, but assistance is no longer available so then they hafta turn to crime to make ends meet. We all complain about welfare and such, but never think through the consequences if they actually DID do away with it.

 

[jer4916]

were having a discussion.
Again, agree there needs to be some sort of taxation to help this, but not in the context in what it is being used for. And hence why our church does " teach all nations" there are children out there who do need help, and we help them, but we dont hold there hand so that they become dependant upon us. if we do that they will never change. Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats forever... same kind of concept. There some rare cases like the old lady where the government needs to step in and help, but children having babies and not being biblical....if i had any say in it, i would have the child removed from its mother/father and placed in a good home atleast untill that child(parent) is able to care for there baby. otherwise the baby just learns from its deadbeat parents how to be a mooch and how NOT to live correctly. I lived in a trailer when i was a kid, my SINGLE mother raised me poor and to be humble so i understand the concept, but my mother never filed for social,welfare ..etc ..she worked 3 jobs to raise my brother and i. She knew how important having christ was in our lives so she sent us to church along side herself to learn about the gosphel so we might one day come to know the lord jesus christ. ....Funny it worked.
The bible teachs thats how it should be, our church helped us for a short time and now we help our church .... but i dont and i dont believe i ever will believe the government has any place in that situation.
Thing is now days so many people believe they can do things on there own with out God(Jesus Christ) ..they think they can do things on there own...and really they cant. People now days defy the fact there is a God even...and again think they can do things alone. The Lord did not make us to live without him...he made us to be his Friends (in Genesis) wow thats an amazing thing... but anyways people need to stop relying on the government for help, they need to put there faith and trust in the lord, attend a good bible believing church and watch the Lord help them....
Some may say that government is in place by god...im sure it is...but there are fine lines as to why things happen... ..now that im rambling... our government may be nice to other countries....but i still think our government is evil..... look at the bible " be watchful for they come as sheeps in wolves clothing" ..thats in refference to false prophets...but you can apply it to our government...there nice..but inwardly they are wolves.
cant argue that.

 

[tthemadd1]

Holy crap.... Down with the man. THanks though for paving my street, protecting my wildlife, and letting me enjoy my freedom.
Still hate bush though. he is just not a very smart man.
Oh yeah.. and make sure we save unborn children while we murder people for crimes. I love that line. I think it is time to keep government and those not directly involved out of other peoples lives. Especially when it comes to womens choice issues. People have a tendency to put their noses where they do not belong. I am a religious person and still find that it is not my business what some women want to do with their lives. I say get a life and find something productive to do with your time... Like start a saltwater tank and become god over your fishy dominions......

 

[jer4916]

Theres a HUGE difference in being Spiritual, and Religious. HUGE difference. Secondly NO ONE has the right to deside of a child lives or dies, God only...You make that baby..it is your job to buck up and WORK your tail off to make sure that CHILD grows up properly. There should be no choice to kill that baby because you dont want it. if you dont want a child dont take part in pre-married activities.

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by Jer4916
I lived in a trailer when i was a kid, my SINGLE mother raised me poor and to be humble so i understand the concept, but my mother never filed for social,welfare ..etc ..she worked 3 jobs to raise my brother and i. She knew how important having christ was in our lives so she sent us to church along side herself to learn about the gosphel so we might one day come to know the lord jesus christ. ....Funny it worked.
Your single mom worked 3 jobs and never asked for assistance?? Don't get me wrong, you mom sounds like one heck of a lady with honorable intentions, and the fact that you got the spiritual upbringing is admirable. But while your mom was working 3 jobs, who was whatching you? Who was looking after you and what was her plan in case of a medical emergency such as falling out of a tree and breaking your arm? Thank God it didn't happen (I hope), but what was the plan if it did?? What was her logic in not asking for help?? Was it pride? Was it self punishment for something she thinks she did wrong? No matter how hard I try I can not see the logic behind not asking for what is in the best interest of your children. 3 jobs?? How many hours does that accumulate to because I think a child would be raised more completely if mom WAS around...even if the living conditions were attrocious! A mom versus electricity...a child would opt for mom anyday!! So I can not see why she wouldn't accept what was there for her to have. Unless she tried and was rejected, then nix this whole post.

 

[jer4916]

No my Pastor and his family looked after my brother and i while she was at work, other church members helped out...we dont believe any other way. our church is one big family and we love eachother as so. we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[jer4916]

I grew up viewing a strong woman who put her faith in christ and spend every free minute she had with my brother and i, putting me through school paying for me to learn in extra class's paying for me to attend college class's. (not trying to brag..or show ego, but i was in college at 13 years old) she paid for me to get a brain and do something with my life and use my Gifts to help spread the world of God. (i.e im going to school to be a pastor)

 

[jer4916]

I have to go to work now, its 1PM central...I'll continue you with you guys in the discussion later tonight when i get off work. Just know the reason i went in depth ...it does show why i believe the way i do, and why i see things the way i do...most people have views one way because they watched it on tv. i lived, and grew views.
~chris

 

[tthemadd1]

(Your right I got my ideals and beliefs and values from TV.... Dont be so close minded)
I too grew and lived...

And yes I also read the bible on a regular basis.... But I dont take my congragations word as gods... I look into the word through eyes that see poverty, starvation on earth, pain and suffering from many people in this world..... As well as the beautiful fluffy clouds on a summer afternoon. (Sarchasm) Look around and try to help people who are suffering, this is an arguement that will never end...

Yet once again it boils down to people involving themselves in other peoples business. YOU know what God created Doctors, Technology, and yes even the abortion. So if it Gods choice than why do you take so much interest in HIS business. I have heard the military saying kill them all and let GOD sort them out. Oh wait you are doing gods work on earth right? His work for you is not deciding the outcome of a pregnancy. His work for you is to spread his word, not place judgement, look a little more into the word and not the retoric(sp?) of pastors and their own agendas. Look we all have different opinions here the problems lies when people start to pass laws, plant bombs, and even murder doctors. Dont worry I am not getting offended by your opinion just want to throw this out there.

 

[tizzo]

I will admit a "personal perspective" that I normally leave out of debating issues... I, like you am very much a christian, and also like you I believe people SHOULD suffer cunsequences of actions they bring on themselves. But unlike you, I do not have a "church family" (had one, then the church split...politics, go figure). So I agree with a lot of your perspectives. But I also disagree with some. Abortion for one. I feel exaclty as you do concerning the issue, so therefor I will not have one. However, if another woman wants to I believe she should have the fre will God gave her to execute that mistake. He never took away our free will, heck he put the forbidden fruit tree RIGHT IN FRONT OF Adam & EVE!!!! Testing their free will. I believe he still does that. If a woman WANTS an abortion and can't have one cause the gov says she can't, but she still WANTS it, then IMO she has already committed the sin. My point of sharing that is to pint out that while it is good for a select group, namely christians, it is not the overall good of our country. It is our gov's job to provide for the citizensof this country no matter their beliefs. You have a church family, but you hafta admit that in some way God chose you. And he doesn't just "call" anybody. He will welcome anybody, but most christians hear the "call" first. Unless they were raised in a spiritual family then they know nothing other...

 

[jer4916]

I'm called to preach. I don’t completely want to, but it’s what I’m called to do, and what the lord has laid out for me so I will. ...God did not create abortion, man/Satan did. God did give us free will...hence if you screw up you have the free will to fix it yourself (i.e. get right and find God and allow him to help you. OR suffer for what you've done to yourself. Example: hell: God does not send you there. YOU do. Heaven = you accept Jesus Christ as your savior ...your get saved... TRUELY saved, and you get right and follow his simple guidelines and love him. Not the Governments. Satan does a lot of things people don’t give him credit for. i.e.: Hollywood (movies) vulgar music, etc... People just seem to see such joy in it...and go that wide path. Of self pleasure and self righteousness, where as most...MOST bible believing Christians follow the Narrow and Much harder path. Avoiding such sins, Says in the bible Joseph ran from the whore that tried to seduce him. Most of the world/country doesn't do that any longer. If the majority of people could do this and shun those who don’t...And shun them with LOVE not with hate....there would be no need for social, welfare etc... But again. ... Times are coming to a near end as revelations speak of. Things are happening such as whores/gays/murders/evolution coming to a greater power/acceptance. So I guess there is no point in fighting such things because all we can do is spread Gods word to those who need it because soon time will run out and the harvest will be over and they shall not be saved! …

 

[tthemadd1]

Wow that strayed pretty far from a political discussion..... Usually happens that way though... keep spreading the word man.....