don't skip this sump thread
- Thread starter stdreb27
- Start date
squidd
Active Member
Here' it is...
For the most part...
I like 2" (or more) on baffles as narrower tends to "rush" the water thru negating effect...
If you keep skimmer chamber within an inch of mfg footprint, it will have a more effective pick up and less "blow by" of unskimmed water..
Pump chamber needs to be big enough to keep water slow (keep from sucking errant bubbles) and maintain a reasonable "top off time" unless you go ATO...
Fuge should be as big as possible...
Baffle height set by optimal skimmer depth of opperation (can be on "shelf") and reserveing room for backwash.
For the most part...
I like 2" (or more) on baffles as narrower tends to "rush" the water thru negating effect...
If you keep skimmer chamber within an inch of mfg footprint, it will have a more effective pick up and less "blow by" of unskimmed water..
Pump chamber needs to be big enough to keep water slow (keep from sucking errant bubbles) and maintain a reasonable "top off time" unless you go ATO...
Fuge should be as big as possible...
Baffle height set by optimal skimmer depth of opperation (can be on "shelf") and reserveing room for backwash.
turningtim
Active Member
OK what are the dims for the 180? What is the footprint of the skimmer+pump? What is the Overflow rated for? What is the size of the retrun pump? What flow is the skimmer pump rated for?
Then we can attack the math. I will draw up a new set of diagrams for the 2x45gal set-up.
Squidd I'm a bit confused on the baffle height vs skimmer. Does this mean set the backwash room and if the skimmer is set to deep than raise it on a platform? I'm concerned that with the 180 MT the back wash will have to be hefty. What happens if the baffle depth doesn't allow for proper skimmer depth?
Tim
Then we can attack the math. I will draw up a new set of diagrams for the 2x45gal set-up.
Squidd I'm a bit confused on the baffle height vs skimmer. Does this mean set the backwash room and if the skimmer is set to deep than raise it on a platform? I'm concerned that with the 180 MT the back wash will have to be hefty. What happens if the baffle depth doesn't allow for proper skimmer depth?
Tim
squidd
Active Member
Squidd I'm a bit confused on the baffle height vs skimmer. Does this mean set the backwash room and if the skimmer is set to deep than raise it on a platform?
It's a balancing act..and partly depends on the height of the sump tank in question..
I would like to see as much additional water volume added (as much tank depth used as possible) as long as your going this farr to set one up...Let's say your skimmer runs best at 6" to 9" of water (mfg reccomendations) so you set you first baffle top 8" and then water has to flow or drop down to return chamber..which might be say 6"... but the pump inlet is 4 1/2" off the floor, so you only have 1 1/2" of water over the top of pump and not much room for top off and evap differences and may be sucking air thru a vortec..You also probably have a 16" tall tank, so almost half the tank is "wasted" space..(you don't need that much room for backwash)
But now say you figure you need 2 1/2" off the top for back wash...set your skimmer chamber baffle to 13 1/2" (with the skimmer on a shelf so it runs at 8") and then you can have 12" of water over your return pump and a decent amount in the fuge chamber...without the huge "waterfalls" that add bubblesto the mix...
I'm concerned that with the 180 MT the back wash will have to be hefty. What happens if the baffle depth doesn't allow for proper skimmer depth?
The "math" will tell you if you need 2 1/2" or 3" or 4" for backwash rom and even that can be "sectioned off" over the various chambers (see drawing below) maximize the space you using...
It's a balancing act..and partly depends on the height of the sump tank in question..
I would like to see as much additional water volume added (as much tank depth used as possible) as long as your going this farr to set one up...Let's say your skimmer runs best at 6" to 9" of water (mfg reccomendations) so you set you first baffle top 8" and then water has to flow or drop down to return chamber..which might be say 6"... but the pump inlet is 4 1/2" off the floor, so you only have 1 1/2" of water over the top of pump and not much room for top off and evap differences and may be sucking air thru a vortec..You also probably have a 16" tall tank, so almost half the tank is "wasted" space..(you don't need that much room for backwash)
But now say you figure you need 2 1/2" off the top for back wash...set your skimmer chamber baffle to 13 1/2" (with the skimmer on a shelf so it runs at 8") and then you can have 12" of water over your return pump and a decent amount in the fuge chamber...without the huge "waterfalls" that add bubblesto the mix...
I'm concerned that with the 180 MT the back wash will have to be hefty. What happens if the baffle depth doesn't allow for proper skimmer depth?
The "math" will tell you if you need 2 1/2" or 3" or 4" for backwash rom and even that can be "sectioned off" over the various chambers (see drawing below) maximize the space you using...
stdreb27
Active Member
Well there is two things. For one the skimmer can be used in or out of the sump.
Right now I just have one 45 gallon tank, the skimmer and a pump to power it. It is a 1100 gph sequence pump that powers the simmer. So everything else is up for debate. even using that sequence pump for a return and getting another pump for the skimmer.
The footprint of the skimmer is 9 x 12
6 1/2 square base
Acording to the guys at lifereef if I was to put this in the sump. (I think I will because it would make it easier to build a stand but not set to it) It has to be max 12 inches. But can be lower.
The main display is 5 feet long 27 inches tall and 25 front to back.
The 45 gallon tanks are 36x17.5x17.5. there is a drilled hole at 12 inches high tho I can plug that or use it for something.
Right now I just have one 45 gallon tank, the skimmer and a pump to power it. It is a 1100 gph sequence pump that powers the simmer. So everything else is up for debate. even using that sequence pump for a return and getting another pump for the skimmer.
The footprint of the skimmer is 9 x 12
6 1/2 square base
Acording to the guys at lifereef if I was to put this in the sump. (I think I will because it would make it easier to build a stand but not set to it) It has to be max 12 inches. But can be lower.
The main display is 5 feet long 27 inches tall and 25 front to back.
The 45 gallon tanks are 36x17.5x17.5. there is a drilled hole at 12 inches high tho I can plug that or use it for something.
turningtim
Active Member
Should have some time today and I'll see what I can come up with.....
turningtim
Active Member
Heres a little more scale drawing. Now you must figire out how much water will come out of the MT when the power goes out. LxWx 2" (maybe)=Y then sump room must be LxWxZ=Y. This should give you how much room will be needed for the sump to take the water out of the MT. Y will equal gals out of the MT and Z will equal the inches needed for room in the sump.
Remember that LxWxD= inches cubed and then divid by 231 for gallons.
Give it a shot! This will also lead to max baffle height......
Remember that LxWxD= inches cubed and then divid by 231 for gallons.
Give it a shot! This will also lead to max baffle height......
stdreb27
Active Member
So if I multiply (60x27x25)/231 that will give me my main display size.
Then I can take two inches off of it. (60x25x25)/231. If I subtract the two that will give me the drain off of the tank into the sumps. It ends up being 175-162=13 gallons of overflow? My other question is the flow to the skimmer. I figure that I'll have to have the intake and the outflow comming from the same place since the flow required for the skimmer is higher than the whole flow that I plan on having for the setup. So I couldn't set it up inline. Overall after head loss I am going to shoot for what about 800-900 gph is that what you all are recommending? time to play with some drawings.
Then I can take two inches off of it. (60x25x25)/231. If I subtract the two that will give me the drain off of the tank into the sumps. It ends up being 175-162=13 gallons of overflow? My other question is the flow to the skimmer. I figure that I'll have to have the intake and the outflow comming from the same place since the flow required for the skimmer is higher than the whole flow that I plan on having for the setup. So I couldn't set it up inline. Overall after head loss I am going to shoot for what about 800-900 gph is that what you all are recommending? time to play with some drawings.
turningtim
Active Member
Or you can just take 60x25x2=Y/231. then calc how many inches you need in the sump. yes 13 comes out. So you're on the right track.
Do you have a OF yet. With a 180 i think you should shoot for at least 1200 if not more through the sump.
What is the GPH of the skimmer pump? Yes the in and out will be in the same chamber.
Tim
Do you have a OF yet. With a 180 i think you should shoot for at least 1200 if not more through the sump.
What is the GPH of the skimmer pump? Yes the in and out will be in the same chamber.
Tim
stdreb27
Active Member
no overflow, but yeah that was what i was thinking about 1200 ish on that. I am planning on building that. I'm not spending no 200 dollars on the overflow I like. If I use 2 one inch pipes that should give me about 1200 right. I was going to dial that down just a hair to match the 900 gph that was going to achive with the return pump. pump that came with the skimmer is 1100 gph sequence pump.
turningtim
Active Member
Well, I would try for at least 1100 through the sump. Could you use a smaller pump on the skimmer and still have it function properly?
If you're going to build the OF I would even go bigger on flow through the sump. 3x 1" drains would get you 1800 and that would give you about 10x tank flow. then you could suppliment the rest with PH's or CL. return pump could be a mag 18. Would have to see what the head is and what you'll get out of it. This way you could keep the skimmer as is.
With a 45 gal sump I don't think you would have a problem with that much flow.
I have made my OF's and its not that hard! But I will say i don't know how much money I saved........
If you're going to build the OF I would even go bigger on flow through the sump. 3x 1" drains would get you 1800 and that would give you about 10x tank flow. then you could suppliment the rest with PH's or CL. return pump could be a mag 18. Would have to see what the head is and what you'll get out of it. This way you could keep the skimmer as is.
With a 45 gal sump I don't think you would have a problem with that much flow.
I have made my OF's and its not that hard! But I will say i don't know how much money I saved........
stdreb27
Active Member
lol what about those low flow guys earlier in the thread?
The problem I am having shopping for overflows is that none of them will fit over the side of my tank. It is a custom tank that the LFS retails. and the sidewalls are THICK. If I use a tube style system there isn't any way to control the flow out is there? If I put valve on the tube it will just overflow the back holder right?
The problem I am having shopping for overflows is that none of them will fit over the side of my tank. It is a custom tank that the LFS retails. and the sidewalls are THICK. If I use a tube style system there isn't any way to control the flow out is there? If I put valve on the tube it will just overflow the back holder right?
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by Squidd
Max flow rate is limited by bulkhead size...
But less than that is controled by amount return pump pushs up to tank...you don't have to dial down overflow...it will automaticly match input...never more..
I've seen that before but really don't understand how.
Max flow rate is limited by bulkhead size...
But less than that is controled by amount return pump pushs up to tank...you don't have to dial down overflow...it will automaticly match input...never more..
I've seen that before but really don't understand how.
squidd
Active Member
Overflow sets water level in tank...
It can "only" let out "more" water than that set level...which is what the pump is pushing...
If pump is bigger/faster than overflow can handle...tank overfills
If pump is less than overflow can handle...overflow can "handle it" and and maintains that level..even if the pump completly stops....(not counting a small amount of backwash and line drainage discussed above)
It can "only" let out "more" water than that set level...which is what the pump is pushing...
If pump is bigger/faster than overflow can handle...tank overfills
If pump is less than overflow can handle...overflow can "handle it" and and maintains that level..even if the pump completly stops....(not counting a small amount of backwash and line drainage discussed above)
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by Squidd
Overflow sets water level in tank...
It can "only" let out "more" water than that set level...which is what the pump is pushing...
If pump is bigger/faster than overflow can handle...tank overfills
If pump is less than overflow can handle...overflow can "handle it" and and maintains that level..even if the pump completly stops....(not counting a small amount of backwash and line drainage discussed above)
So I guess the way that works is to set the back box even with the water level of the main tank right?
Overflow sets water level in tank...
It can "only" let out "more" water than that set level...which is what the pump is pushing...
If pump is bigger/faster than overflow can handle...tank overfills
If pump is less than overflow can handle...overflow can "handle it" and and maintains that level..even if the pump completly stops....(not counting a small amount of backwash and line drainage discussed above)
So I guess the way that works is to set the back box even with the water level of the main tank right?
stdreb27
Active Member
So I almost have everything together now! I'm getting the 1400 gph overflow from lifereef off
[hr]
for really cheap! Now my question is should I do a sequence pump or a mag pump. I'm really leaning towards a sequence pump because of the lower heat issue. I'm not going to be able to buy a chiller for the summer and summers here get hot. But which one should I get. I want a really quiet one because this is going to be in my room.
[hr]
for really cheap! Now my question is should I do a sequence pump or a mag pump. I'm really leaning towards a sequence pump because of the lower heat issue. I'm not going to be able to buy a chiller for the summer and summers here get hot. But which one should I get. I want a really quiet one because this is going to be in my room.
russy pelican
Member
The Quiet One is a good pump, but when I worked at the LFS we called them "The Hot One" because they put off so much heat. They may have changed the design in the last 10 years, but if not, they wouldn't be my first choice if overheating is already a concern.