don't skip this sump thread

[bang guy]

If you truly want less flow in the refugium then pumping it from the sump is the wrong idea IMO. I think it's fine the way it is, I don't know where the idea that refugiums have to be low waterflow areas.
Referring to your first drawing: If you split the overflow line and send one branch directly to the sump and the other branch to the refugium you can easily control and adjust the amount of water that flows the path to the refugium if that branch has a ball valve. All you would have to do is add a 'T' and then the ball valve.
The reason I suggest this is twofold.
1 - It's a waste of energy to use a pump where gravity can do the work for you.
2 - Recirculating the water from the sump means that less water volume is replaced from the display tank.

 

[stdreb27]

what about a skimmer? LifeReef VS3-30

 

[stdreb27]

one more question, I have two options on the 45 gallon tank. I can get one with a hole on the bottom like shown in the picture or I can get one on the side of the tank. Almost to the top of the tank. Which one would be best?

 

[bang guy]

There are more options with a tank that's drilled on the bottom.
There's more usable space in a tank drilled on the side.
It depends on the situation.

 

[stdreb27]

as far as tank size I think that it will take a while to fill up that 45 gallon. With stuff Not to worried about that. But right now I have the 45 with the hole in the side, I could go back and get the other one. And I was going to really do that. But talking on this thread got me thinking about keeping the one I have.

 

[squidd]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
.
What I wanted intentions for it was duel, definately want it for filtering most of all purposes. I want it to grow pods and stuff. But I want to put a couple more passive fish in there too. Maybe a couple pajama cardinal. Then stick a my lawnmower to clean up every so often. Possibly some clams and other stuff.
Well this goes back to my original answer then...
What you are creating is a secondary "display" tank with additional lifeforms and bioload...While you have added water volume..any "additional" filtration effects are pretty much negated by the additional bio load placed on the system...
Again,
definately want it for filtering most of all
If that is the "goal" of the fuge setting it up this way with the inhabitants and set up as described...you will lose most of the effectiveness of a fuge/filtration...
Will it work?...sure
Will it look good?...sure
Will there be measurable benefits to filtration?...doubtful..

 

[squidd]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
I don't know where the idea that refugiums have to be low waterflow areas.
I think the confusion lies in "low" as relative to volume vs actual flow numbers...
600gph thru a 90 gallon tank would be considered "low" at 6X turnover, but then drain that same flow volume thru a 20 gallon sump divided into a 12 gallon fuge and that same 600 is 50X turnover in the fuge which is awfully "Fast"...
While this doesn't pertain to the 45 gallon fuge being added here...I think the caution of "lowering" the flow thru a fuge is is derived from relative size differences...
Which is another reason I like the "split flow/return to center" sump/fuge design...(more control)

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Squidd
Well this goes back to my original answer then...
What you are creating is a secondary "display" tank with additional lifeforms and bioload...While you have added water volume..any "additional" filtration effects are pretty much negated by the additional bio load placed on the system...
Again, If that is the "goal" of the fuge setting it up this way with the inhabitants and set up as described...you will lose most of the effectiveness of a fuge/filtration...
Will it work?...sure
Will it look good?...sure
Will there be measurable benefits to filtration?...doubtful..
I see what you are saying.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Squidd
I think the confusion lies in "low" as relative to volume vs actual flow numbers...
600gph thru a 90 gallon tank would be considered "low" at 6X turnover, but then drain that same flow volume thru a 20 gallon sump divided into a 12 gallon fuge and that same 600 is 50X turnover in the fuge which is awfully "Fast"...
While this doesn't pertain to the 45 gallon fuge being added here...I think the caution of "lowering" the flow thru a fuge is is derived from relative size differences...
Which is another reason I like the "split flow/return to center" sump/fuge design...(more control)
Yes, I'm with you on 50X being steep LOL
I also agree that what's being considered here is a second display tank.
This is where I kinda differ, but not really. I don't see any post in this thread stating the display tank size nor the turnover rate though the sump. All of the turnover needn't go through the sump. The display tank could have a nice 20X turnover but only a 2X turnover though the sump. Closed loops and powerheads are a lot more efficient than a sump pump with a 4 or 5 foot head.
I also prefer the split from the overflow. One side to the Refugium and then the sump where the other side goes directly to the sump.

 

[stdreb27]

my tank is a 180 gallon tank. it is going to be a fowlr till I get out of college and settle down in a couple of years. But this leads to another question. How much turnover should I have total using this idea? I was going off a suggestion by some other people. Because I really don't know. And what would yall suggest going to the the top and the bottom tank. And maybe I'll kill the idea with several fish in there because I really need the filtration. Right now I still have a fx5 that is doing the filtration. And I don't know if I'll keep it. (and please don't gripe at me too bad about that little turnover this is my first saltwater tank) we can talk about keeping or not keeping that too.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Yes, I'm with you on 50X being steep LOL
I also agree that what's being considered here is a second display tank.
This is where I kinda differ, but not really. I don't see any post in this thread stating the display tank size nor the turnover rate though the sump. All of the turnover needn't go through the sump. The display tank could have a nice 20X turnover but only a 2X turnover though the sump. Closed loops and powerheads are a lot more efficient than a sump pump with a 4 or 5 foot head.
I also prefer the split from the overflow. One side to the Refugium and then the sump where the other side goes directly to the sump.

 

[stdreb27]

bump the more you talk the more fun it is.

 

[bang guy]

I's suggest somewhere between 2X & 10X turnover through the sump and 10X - 20X total turnover for the display tank.
If heater & such are in the sump then you'll want to be toward the high end sump turnover rate.

 

[psusocr1]

hey i didnt read the whole thread but most and i actually use two tanks... one for a sump and one for a refugium and connected them with an overflow box(since id idnt feel like drilling) but instead of havein one under and one over i have mine side by side,, it actually works amazing belive it or not! if you want some pics just let me know

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by psusocr1
hey i didnt read the whole thread but most and i actually use two tanks... one for a sump and one for a refugium and connected them with an overflow box(since id idnt feel like drilling) but instead of havein one under and one over i have mine side by side,, it actually works amazing belive it or not! if you want some pics just let me know
yeah I'd love to see them.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
I's suggest somewhere between 2X & 10X turnover through the sump and 10X - 20X total turnover for the display tank.
If heater & such are in the sump then you'll want to be toward the high end sump turnover rate.
How can I have that little turnover through the sump system and that much more through the tank. are you talking using something else for the main tank turnover?

 

[psusocr1]

this is a basic drawing that i tweaked a bit since

here are some pics, you can see how the 55 gallon on the right is my refugium and then the overflow box drains it into my 45 gallon on the left which is my sump( you can see the baffles) skimmer, subm. pump etc. if you have any questions just elt me know

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
How can I have that little turnover through the sump system and that much more through the tank. are you talking using something else for the main tank turnover?
Exactly!
Tunze and a few other manufacturers make high end prop based powerheads that produce a ton of flow very efficiently.

 

[stdreb27]

so when you say turnover you aren't talking about through a filter system but just flow or better said current through the main tank. So in reality I could get a smaller pump for the sump system than 1200 gph. more like 600 gph through the sump system.

 

[turningtim]

Originally Posted by psusocr1
this is a basic drawing that i tweaked a bit since

here are some pics, you can see how the 55 gallon on the right is my refugium and then the overflow box drains it into my 45 gallon on the left which is my sump( you can see the baffles) skimmer, subm. pump etc. if you have any questions just elt me know

Nice Tank! You do that yourself?

 

[psusocr1]

AS EVERYONE should know these are the designs of TurningTim himself!!!
i can never thank you enough for helping me out soo quickly in that jam!
where you been?
hope all is well!