Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Has anyone ever proved the accuracy of every "story" written in the Bible? If the Bible was never written/discovered, would the version of God everyone relates to in the context of what's written in that book even exist today?
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/220#post_3491187
If nothing is created then, how have scientists created particles out of nothing? How have they created light using quantum physics out of nothing?
Not to a scientist. The scientist may not currently have an hypothesis or be conducting experiements on those things. But the scientist always assumes that what is observed (like a particle) came from something else. And investigating where it came from through forming hypothesis, conducting experiements to test those hypothesis is the scientific method.
Assuming or at least accepting that something came from nothing completely turns off the scientific process.
To a scientist the universe is a infinite bunch of stuff. Constantly changing from one thing to another. In which nothing is ever created or destroyed.
Anything that does not accept that (like a particle came from nothing) is simply not scientific. By definition.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Not to a scientist.  The scientist may not currently have an hypothesis or be conducting experiements on those things.  But the scientist always assumes that what is observed (like a particle) came from something else. And investigating where it came from through forming hypothesis, conducting experiements to test those hypothesis is the scientific method.
Assuming or at least accepting that something came from nothing completely turns off the scientific process.
To a scientist the universe is a infinite bunch of stuff.  Constantly changing from one thing to another.  In which nothing is ever created or destroyed.
Anything that does not accept that (like a particle came from nothing) is simply not scientific.  By definition.
So science says the beginning "matter" always existed?
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491207
So science says the beginning "matter" always existed?
You can do a search and find hundreds of explanations for how matter came to be. Most will be presented in the same way actual scientific arguments are presented, but none are science. We don't currently have a method of testing any of these ideas and that means that they are outside the realm of science. These ideas are philosophical and that's okay.
But there is one thing that we need to keep in mind: the appeal to ignorance. Just because we can't explain how all of this was created doesn't prove the existence of God. There is no evidence for the existence of God. But you also have to keep in mind that a lack of evidence is not evidence.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

You can do a search and find hundreds of explanations for how matter came to be. Most will be presented in the same way actual scientific arguments are presented, but none are science. We don't currently have a method of testing any of these ideas and that means that they are outside the realm of science. These ideas are philosophical and that's okay.
But there is one thing that we need to keep in mind: the appeal to ignorance. Just because we can't explain how all of this was created doesn't prove the existence of God. There is no evidence for the existence of God. But you also have to keep in mind that a lack of evidence is not evidence.
This is twice you have mentioned ignorance/uneducated.
So are you saying science doesn't prove there isn't a god?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
The scientist assumes there was no beginning. 
But what does science say? The scientist could say pigs come from hamsters also. But science won't agree
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491202
You do realize that the Earth will be gone in another 4 billion years (Haven't read all the threads, so I'm not sure if this has been brought up in this discussion). So is God causing these two major galaxies to collide? Will he "reach out his hand" to stop it, or maybe "blow" the two aprt so they don't collide?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/10/101027-science-space-universe-end-of-time-multiverse-inflation/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda%E2%80%93Milky_Way_collision
Have you never read.....
In the end, the Earth will topple to and fro like a drunkard, and the elements will melt with extreem heat and sea's will be no more. Then God will create a new heaven and a new Earth.
So no God is not going to reach out a hand and stop it, nor blow the two apart. I don't know the when or the how, but the solar system someday is going to change and Earth with it.
Soooo....my books are pretty old, so how long has science discovered the galaxies getting closer? Oh that's right...my books knew before the scientists that the Earth was round and went around the sun too.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491225
Have you never read.....
In the end, the Earth will topple to and fro like a drunkard, and the elements will melt with extreem heat and sea's will be no more. Then God will create a new heaven and a new Earth.
So no God is not going to reach out a hand and stop it, nor blow the two apart. I don't know the when or the how, but the solar system someday is going to change and Earth with it.
Soooo....my books are pretty old, so how long has science discovered the galaxies getting closer? Oh that's right...my books knew before the scientists that the Earth was round and went around the sun too.
I'm assuming "your books" are the Bible. Based on what I've read, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy , and Moses were written around 1400 B.C. So that "book" has only existed around 3400 or so years. How old do you think the Earth is? Some "believers" think that man lived the same time as the dinosaurs. Scientific evidence and carbon dating prove different. You base your theories on a book written by various religious philosophers, with no physical evidence any of the incidents in said book actually ever occurred. Do you have physical evidence Eden ever existed? If so, exactly how many years ago was that "garden" flourishing with Adam and Eve roaming the grounds? How about Noah's Ark? Did the 10 Commandment tablets ever really exist, or did one of these philosophers just come up with those 10 rules? That's the thing about the Bible. It is just a book. A book written with theories and beliefs with no assertainable proof the events written ever actually occurred. What you rely on to believe that everything written in the Bible is true, is your faith. Unfortunately, one's faith isn't enough evidence to validate the existence of God in the minds of all human beings.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
I'm assuming "your books" are the Bible.  Based on what I've read, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy , and Moses  were written around 1400 B.C.  So that "book" has only existed around 3400 or so years.  How old do you think the Earth is?  Some "believers" think that man lived the same time as the dinosaurs.  Scientific evidence and carbon dating prove different.  You base your theories on a book written by various religious philosophers, with no physical evidence any of the incidents in said book actually ever occurred.  Do you have physical evidence Eden ever existed?  If so, exactly how many years ago was that "garden" flourishing with Adam and Eve roaming the grounds?  How about Noah's Ark?  Did the 10 Commandment tablets ever really exist, or did one of these philosophers just come up with those 10 rules?  That's the thing about the Bible.  It is just a book.  A book written with theories and beliefs with no assertainable proof the events written ever actually occurred.  What you rely on to believe that everything written in the Bible is true, is your faith.  Unfortunately, one's faith isn't enough evidence to validate the existence of God in the minds of all human beings. 
Where do you get 1400 b.c.?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491255
I'm assuming "your books" are the Bible. Based on what I've read, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy , and Moses were written around 1400 B.C. So that "book" has only existed around 3400 or so years. How old do you think the Earth is? Some "believers" think that man lived the same time as the dinosaurs. Scientific evidence and carbon dating prove different. You base your theories on a book written by various religious philosophers, with no physical evidence any of the incidents in said book actually ever occurred. Do you have physical evidence Eden ever existed? If so, exactly how many years ago was that "garden" flourishing with Adam and Eve roaming the grounds? How about Noah's Ark? Did the 10 Commandment tablets ever really exist, or did one of these philosophers just come up with those 10 rules? That's the thing about the Bible. It is just a book. A book written with theories and beliefs with no assertainable proof the events written ever actually occurred. What you rely on to believe that everything written in the Bible is true, is your faith. Unfortunately, one's faith isn't enough evidence to validate the existence of God in the minds of all human beings.
The knowledge that the galaxies are colliding as observed by the scientists is younger in their discovery, than knowledge found in the books you doubt has any merit. I can't prove the existence of an atom either. I don't base my theories on the Holy writtings, I base my entire life on them.
Scientists theorize there is an atom because it just makes sense to them that there is....something so tiny it can never actually be seen. The only evidence is looking at the creation around you. God is so big...he can't be seen either, the only evidence is looking at the creation around you. The existence of one, does not cancel out the other.
Thousands upon thousands of people did indeed witnesses Moses go up the mountian and saw the fire and the smoke, heard the sound of the thunder and the shofar, actually touched the tablets that contained the 10 commandments. Thousands upon thousands witnessed the cloud that would come and hover over the tent of meeting between God and Moses, talking with him, teaching him. Thousands upon thousands were eye witnesses to the power and miracles God revealed to them.The books are their accounts.
So you want to think of the Holy writtings as just a book, that's fine and that's your choice ... I have nothing to prove to you. I have my plate full running my own life, I can live with my choices. I expect death to be a little scary because of the unknown, yet I will have a hope as I close my eyes that final time. You see, I really do trust and believe those books. So It's beneath me to try and convince others there is a God, he can speak for himself. My validation does not come from the people around me....ever hear the saying...Thou protesteth too much? I have to wonder, are you trying to convince me or yourself?
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491261
LOL...The chicken, God spoke and the creatures came forth.... and God saw that it was good, then commanded them to be fruitful and multiply.
Lol...... you go girl!
Actually, the dinasour came first then the chicken. Lol.......
Flower, I applaud you. You put up a good fight for what you believe and your faith proves that.
The greatest gift from God was fajitas, or, I mean the gift of choice. We can choose to have faith or choose otherwise. I for one do have faith that the almighty did create the universe. Maybe not in the same way NASA states but I do believe that God created the big bang, which in turn started the ball rolling fo all creation.
The Universe is growing, new stars are forming, new planets and moon, are being made. Science states that the earth was made of asteroids coming together and sticking to one another. This is how alot of our planets formed.
This in my opinion is Gods experement. Maybe next time he will do it better.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member

Scientists theorize there is an atom because it just makes sense to them that there is....something so tiny it can never actually be seen. The only evidence is looking at the creation around you. God is so big...he can't be seen either, the only evidence is looking at the creation around you. The existence of one, does not cancel out the other
Actually, atoms have been seen - just google "atom photograph", but more convincing are the thousands of experiments that are consistent with the existence of atoms, and inconsistent with any other view of matter. Scientists don't theorize about the existence of atoms, but do theorize about the forces that hold them together, for example.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491260
The knowledge that the galaxies are colliding as observed by the scientists is younger in their discovery, than knowledge found in the books you doubt has any merit. I can't prove the existence of an atom either. I don't base my theories on the Holy writtings, I base my entire life on them.
Scientists theorize there is an atom because it just makes sense to them that there is....something so tiny it can never actually be seen. The only evidence is looking at the creation around you. God is so big...he can't be seen either, the only evidence is looking at the creation around you. The existence of one, does not cancel out the other.
Thousands upon thousands of people did indeed witnesses Moses go up the mountian and saw the fire and the smoke, heard the sound of the thunder and the shofar, actually touched the tablets that contained the 10 commandments. Thousands upon thousands witnessed the cloud that would come and hover over the tent of meeting between God and Moses, talking with him, teaching him. Thousands upon thousands were eye witnesses to the power and miracles God revealed to them.The books are their accounts.
So you want to think of the Holy writtings as just a book, that's fine and that's your choice ... I have nothing to prove to you. I have my plate full running my own life, I can live with my choices. I expect death to be a little scary because of the unknown, yet I will have a hope as I close my eyes that final time. You see, I really do trust and believe those books. So It's beneath me to try and convince others there is a God, he can speak for himself. My validation does not come from the people around me....ever hear the saying...Thou protesteth too much? I have to wonder, are you trying to convince me or yourself?
Again, that's your personal faith that allows you to believe what's contained in a book. You say thousands of people withnessed Moses. Where's the physical proof? There is none. It's all hearsay from the believers and philosophers who wrote the "stories". Did the accounts of that event come from first-hand experience, or what is third, fourth, or whatever someone told a person? That's the quirky thing about religion. People base their beliefs on God on the writings of one singular book. If the book never existed, who knows how religions would've formed, if at all. We could be like the Mayans, building tall temples, making sacrifices to some Sun God (or whoever they worshipped). I'm happy that your beliefs make you content and resolved in your life. That's one of the benefits in believing. Me? I don't htink there's this hearafter that your soul goes to. When you die, you're dead. Nothing more, nothing less. My favorite example of this is my old motto of The Cycle Of Life - "Your born, you get laid, you die, the worms eat you."
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/240#post_3491288
Again, that's your personal faith that allows you to believe what's contained in a book. You say thousands of people withnessed Moses. Where's the physical proof? There is none. It's all hearsay from the believers and philosophers who wrote the "stories". Did the accounts of that event come from first-hand experience, or what is third, fourth, or whatever someone told a person? That's the quirky thing about religion. People base their beliefs on God on the writings of one singular book. If the book never existed, who knows how religions would've formed, if at all. We could be like the Mayans, building tall temples, making sacrifices to some Sun God (or whoever they worshipped). I'm happy that your beliefs make you content and resolved in your life. That's one of the benefits in believing. Me? I don't htink there's this hearafter that your soul goes to. When you die, you're dead. Nothing more, nothing less. My favorite example of this is my old motto of The Cycle Of Life - "Your born, you get laid, you die, the worms eat you."
Okay...so why bother to address anything further that I post? I don't believe in the Easter bunny, or Santa....I say I don't believe in it and why, and move on. I was aware of what you thought 3 posts ago...but you just keep repeating.
So I think I got by now...you are born, you get some fun, you die and then you are worm food. You know, I have never seen anyone actually be eaten by worms. I have read about decomposition. I believe the accounts of the people who have seen it. Appearently you believe their accounts too. You know what...I agree with you...people die and get eaten by worms. There, do you feel better now?
 
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