Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

pezenfuego

Active Member
I would argue that there is just as much beauty, if not more, in the theory of evolution. Of course that is my OPINION lol...
The idea that no creator was necessary. The idea that everything and everyone is connected. The idea that change is happening all the time and there are no absolutes. I like that.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/480#post_3492794
Evolutionists have some old Lucy bones, not even all of the Lucy bones, just a few which they embrace as some kind of proof that evolution has merit, and I can still say my God created that too.
If it were ever proved that indeed we all emerged from a pool of mushy goo...I will still say it took a pretty awesome God to speak to that goo, and make it turn into stuff that walks and talks billions of trillions of years later that can debate about it....if we find life on another planet I will declare...Whoop! Look at that, He did it again! One thing remains a constant...scientists can't create life ... they can find it, they can disect it, but they can't make something alive if it is lifeless. That is what seperates the created from the Creator.
The thing is, that it is just not Lucy bones. Lucy was not even in the picture during Darwin's time. There is a multitude of bones, various species that validate evolution; and not just human either, but all types of animals and even plants. It is this wealth of evidence since Darwin that makes up the Theory of Evolution--not just what Darwin found out through his study. Science does not come up with a theory and then try to prove it. They find substantial evidence, validated it through the scientific method, and then have the theory.
If you look at how life actually does start, think of human life now, two cells that become an embryo, then fetus, then newborn baby with millions of cells, it is not so hard to see how that "goo" turned in to various animals, and then in to human beings. Life begins with virtually nothingness and yet here we are on a planet teaming with life.
I believe that God did speak to the goo, and, in so doing, created life on this planet. I'm sure he did the same on many other planets throughout the galaxy. Do you think that there was and Adam and Eve on other planets, or that we are alone in a vast lifeless nothingness?
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/480#post_3492796
I would argue that there is just as much beauty, if not more, in the theory of evolution. Of course that is my OPINION lol...
The idea that no creator was necessary. The idea that everything and everyone is connected. The idea that change is happening all the time and there are no absolutes. I like that.
Okay...Now I have to ask you this, what if you are wrong on the point I highlighted?
As for the rest of your post: What makes you think that if there is a Creator, that means we are not connected?...or...That there are absolutes and changes are not happening, if he is in charge? I can certainly understand the joy of discovery, that's why I love SW tanks. Science is cool and awesome to dig in and figure stuff out.
I think (my opinion on the subject) it's foolish to assume God isn't there. Let me assure you the journey of discovering him is just as spine tingling and awesome to tap into. If it is an area that you have not yet explored, don't be too quick to discard the idea. Don't just assume nobody is home until you knock at the door to find out for yourself.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Actually, there have been tests done that prove that amino acids have been formed under conditions similar to that of when Earth was just created.
They took a bunch of elements that we know were present at the beginning and we subjected those elements to the same conditions... electric currents (lightning), heat, etc. and then they tested the materials and found that they had actually created molecules known as amino acids which are the basic building blocks of life. ...
I'll try to find the link but it's ok if someone else can beat me to it. Actually, I would prefer it.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
At the same time, if these conditions can be replicated in a lab, what goes to say that there can't be life on other planets elsewhere in the universe?
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
creation + evolution = intelligent design
It's bigger than we can comprehend. A dozen different views and just as many belief's. We can only make assumptions through what we know and what we see. Everything is connected on some level whether we like it or not. I see no harm in being loyal to one way of believing. I just think it's bigger then that.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492800
Okay...Now I have to ask you this, what if you are wrong on the point I highlighted?
As for the rest of your post: What makes you think that if there is a Creator, that means we are not connected?...or...That there are absolutes and changes are not happening, if he is in charge? I can certainly understand the joy of discovery, that's why I love SW tanks. Science is cool and awesome to dig in and figure stuff out.
I think (my opinion on the subject) it's foolish to assume God isn't there. Let me assure you the journey of discovering him is just as spine tingling and awesome to tap into. If it is an area that you have not yet explored, don't be too quick to discard the idea. Don't just assume nobody is home until you knock at the door to find out for yourself.

How do you "discover" something that has no physical presence? I can "discover" many adventures just by picking up a good novel. If I read "Alice In Wonderland", can I then assume that Alice and the Chessire Cat exist in this other world she fell into? How about the Harry Potter series? Read that storyline, and one can believe witches and warlocks actually live on the "other side of the train tracks".
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492807
How do you "discover" something that has no physical presence? I can "discover" many adventures just by picking up a good novel. If I read "Alice In Wonderland", can I then assume that Alice and the Chessire Cat exist in this other world she fell into? How about the Harry Potter series? Read that storyline, and one can believe witches and warlocks actually live on the "other side of the train tracks".
put down the micro scope and pick up something with a wider angle lens.
 

dragonzim

Active Member
 one hing remains a constant...scientists can't create life ... they can find it, they can disect it, but they can't make something alive if it is lifeless. That is what seperates the created from the Creator.
Not yet, anyway... :flame:
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492807
How do you "discover" something that has no physical presence? I can "discover" many adventures just by picking up a good novel. If I read "Alice In Wonderland", can I then assume that Alice and the Chessire Cat exist in this other world she fell into? How about the Harry Potter series? Read that storyline, and one can believe witches and warlocks actually live on the "other side of the train tracks".
The Bible is a good read too... it's full of murderers, rapists, mentally disabled, incest, demons, medicinal herbs, zombies, entire cities being distroyed, people turning into salt, entire races of people killed by a big flood, A protagonist and an antagonist... Yeah, it's a good read.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492802
Actually, there have been tests done that prove that amino acids have been formed under conditions similar to that of when Earth was just created.
They took a bunch of elements that we know were present at the beginning and we subjected those elements to the same conditions... electric currents (lightning), heat, etc. and then they tested the materials and found that they had actually created molecules known as amino acids which are the basic building blocks of life. ...
I'll try to find the link but it's ok if someone else can beat me to it. Actually, I would prefer it.
Hi
I never said there is no life on other planets, I said it would make no difference to my belief that God exists, if there was.
Seth...I find it delightful that scientists did that...because it did prove something.
If I take a cake and carfully to last molecule copy the ingredients and put them in a bowl and mix them up, then place then in an oven....I will have a cake. It may not be a wedding fancy cake but by golly, it would be a cake. Even if they added too little or too much of any ingredient...it would still be a cake.
The scientists copied the elements (ingredients) and placed them in the same conditions (oven)....an amino acid is far from the pool of mushy goo...it isn't even an ameba. Whatever pool of mushy goo God created that became a fish, that became a fish with legs...etc...etc....(according to evolution) life can not be duplicated in a lab, they know the incredients, they have managed to copy a creature exactly (clone) but only if it was already alive...
Source: http://www.realtime.net/anr/aminoacd.html
Cells depend on amino
acids
for growth, repair and maintenance. Amino
acids
function
as the building blocks that make up proteins. Proteins make up the greatest portion of body weight after water.
According to what I looked up about amino acids is that after all their efforts to duplicate life, the scientists made a....... vitamin.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492814
The Bible is a good read too... it's full of murderers, rapists, mentally disabled, incest, demons, medicinal herbs, zombies, entire cities being distroyed, people turning into salt, entire races of people killed by a big flood, A protagonist and an antagonist... Yeah, it's a good read.
Zombies???? I missed that story. The rest is there...and ...LOL...it is a good read.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492810
put down the micro scope and pick up something with a wider angle lens.
I like this answer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492817
Might wanna look into stem cell research...
While the stem cells are indeed the building blocks....after a death even a stem cell can't help. Because it contains an undecided function and be attached to grow into whatever a scientist probes it to do, by attaching it to the other cells.....doesn't mean it is a thing that can give life where none exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492807
How do you "discover" something that has no physical presence? I can "discover" many adventures just by picking up a good novel. If I read "Alice In Wonderland", can I then assume that Alice and the Chessire Cat exist in this other world she fell into? How about the Harry Potter series? Read that storyline, and one can believe witches and warlocks actually live on the "other side of the train tracks".
You may not be able to see him, but God has a very physical presence.
Discover and knocking at a door are two different things. Have you ever sat quietly in a room....speak out, just in case God is there like he said, and tell him you are having a problem believing and having that little bit of "faith" folks talk about? Ask him, if he really is there to please help you a little to understand and give you something to grasp....If you sincerely ask...not be offensive or defensive...just ask. Not ask him to blast the wall or raise the dead and prove himself...but ask him to please reveal himself to you so you can find him. I am not evangelizing...I'm telling you that God is real, and you can talk to him and get an answer. Just remember who you are talking to and show some respect.
God is not a religion, the books are accounts of what folks have seen, experienced and were told, that has been passed down, first in song and then written. You need some experience for your own self. God is not going to prove himself to anyone...That's like insisting the presedent of the United States should call you himself if he wants your vote. That doesn't mean that if you ask for a life line he will not answer you. If you ask your natural father for a piece of bread, he isn't going to hand you a stone. How much more will your heavenly Father give you a good gift if you ask him.
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Take this little experiment and blow it up to the size of an ocean. Then multiply that by the number of planets with water in the galaxy. Then multiply that by the number of galaxies in the universe. Then give it a few billion years. Perhaps the probability of a lifeform coming into existence with all of these variables is extremely high. Perhaps it isn't. We don't know right now, but the point is that we can say that this is possible and that's something. Scientists have created new species by manipulating DNA, that has happened. With more research and experimentation, who knows how far we'll get?
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
The mind has no physical presence, yet it is the very essence of who we are as individuals.  It is more than a brain with organic material and functions.  It is how we communicate with God if we choose to do so.
Do you have any evidence for any parts of those statements?
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492840
The mind has no physical presence, yet it is the very essence of who we are as individuals. It is more than a brain with organic material and functions. It is how we communicate with God if we choose to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/500#post_3492842
Do you have any evidence for any parts of those statements?
A thought is intangable....In the quietest place of her thoughts she talks with God and with something deep inside, that can't be expressed by words or seen or touched...she knows
she is heard. Explaning the inner soul to an athiest is like trying to explain the color yellow to a blind person who has never had the ability to see. That's why the place of unbelief is referred to as a great darkness, why Jesus called them the blind, and the spiritually dead who knows nothing and can sense nothing.
But that shouldn't bother you...since you have no concept of it whatsoever...
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Actually, she could have said it much better, since she made unwarranted assumptions about me, my religious beliefs and my spirituality. Just because I have accused Flower of being one-dimensional in her relationship with science and God, she assumed that I was equally unidimensional, but of opposite sign. Many scients, most far more accomplished than a I have reached an accommodation between their spiritual and naturalistic sides.
Not to hijack this thread, but the reason I challenged you about your claims about "mind" is that there is growing evidence that the things we attribute to "mind" are normal, comprehensible neural activities. We like the concept that the human mind is superior to all others, but IMHO that is just a conceit.
 
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