Flower's Sump/Fuge Build

flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/280#post_3314599
Flower I do my water changes from the DT.....Once I start to drain, I turn the return pump off.....and when filling up, once the water reached the teeth in the overflow, I turn the return pump back on
There is no way I would be able to maneuver in the cabinet to do the w/c from the sump (this is me)
I think you have the other questions answered :)
Remember...you will find the best way for YOU to do this

LOL...I am a creature habit....but everything will be in the sump, the skimmer I use to remove water and the ATO I use to return it..............
I'm such an idiot...I just answered my own question. If I have the ATO already replacing water into the sump all I have t do is wet skim from the skimmer like I have been doing...nothing changed but location...DUH




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acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/280#post_3314563
your ato has a float yes? this is connected to some kind of sensor or relay yes? when the float gets too low, it trips the sensor or relay yes? This trip then causes the pump to turn on and send water to the tank yes? when the water reaches a certain point, the float raises up and trips the other sensor or relay telling the pump to turn off yes?
if all the above is yes then
What happens if the float goes too high and passes the "pump turn off sensor or relay"? I ask this as this will happen when a power failure occurs in your new system.
the float or sensor is basically a limiting switch, so yes it does have a safety!!!! Once the limit is reached in the high or low sensor it would trigger either the pump on or off...... Even with your basic Kent float it will only go but so far up or down so again it's limited travel.
I want to remind everyone an emphasize emphatically that yes they are safeties, but the are not fail proof as like anything they do require attention. They are prone to buiding up calcium or other debris, which could easily cause them to stick open or close. Again part of your maintenance regimen should be to check and make sure they function properly. Even with the fancy optical sensors as used on the Tunzes, they can become dirty or "caked" and they could malfunction. No system is 100% fail proof. By proper maintenance and setup things could be diverted or caught.
The earlier post about setting up water level height is very good, and can be used for all size tanks!!!
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/300#post_3314613
the float or sensor is basically a limiting switch, so yes it does have a safety!!!! Once the limit is reached in the high or low sensor it would trigger either the pump on or off...... Even with your basic Kent float it will only go but so far up or down so again it's limited travel.
I want to remind everyone an emphasize emphatically that yes they are safeties, but the are not fail proof as like anything they do require attention. They are prone to buiding up calcium or other debris, which could easily cause them to stick open or close. Again part of your maintenance regimen should be to check and make sure they function properly. Even with the fancy optical sensors as used on the Tunzes, they can become dirty or "caked" and they could malfunction. No system is 100% fail proof. By proper maintenance and setup things could be diverted or caught.
The earlier post about setting up water level height is very good, and can be used for all size tanks!!!

+1 on the sensor.. so far it's algae that builds up all around it...I have cleaned it up a bunch of times. It has never failed but it does get yucky and has to be cleaned up.
I am about to call my friend in Wisconsin and see if I can score some free bristle worms, he should be up by now, if he does I have a trip to mke....so talk to everyone later!
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/300#post_3314622
Ask your friend for a cup or 2 of sand.... Will help seed your new and old sand beds!!!!!

Finally I got hold of my friend...He said he can a give me a dozen bristle worms and some small pieces of rock to put in the sump for that little chamber in the corner. I didn't see your post till after I talked to him, I will ask when I get there. I won't bother seeding the display, my goby won't let anything alone long enough to seed. I can put the new seeding stuff in the little refugium I have hanging in the tank until I get the new sump..
I may have to purchase some live sand for the refugium so I have a nice deep sand bed.
I have a bunch of amphipods (looks like tiny shrimps) that came on my macroalgae all in that refugium...I can't see them but do you think if I have amphipods on that algae that copepods might be there too? I see some white dots but I can't tell if it is critters swimming or just stuff being pushed around by the little power head in there. There is flow from the tank so it won't help to turn the little power head off to see. I just have high hopes.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/300#post_3314670
Good to see I described something SW tank related properly and easy to understand.

Your are a great help...this stage: At this point, turn off the system and see how much comes back in from the syphon. When the syphon breaks, determine how much room you have left. If you feel you need to add water, then do so, if not, turn it all back on.
The sump I have is small compared to my 90g tank..what do I do if the siphon pulls more water than the sump can hold? Or should I even be concerned?
I suppose a better question would be ...How many gallons will the new sump hold, and how many gallons will the refugium hold?
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
So does anyone think that the sumprefugium will take care of all of the filtering requirements of this display with'
"I won't bother seeding the display, my goby won't let anything alone long enough to seed"
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
The over all size of the two tanks will be a 24g sump and a 18g fuge. For a total of 42g.
But since they aren't going to be filled to the top when I put the actual measurements of where the water lines will be into the calculater I come up with 13.2g in the sump and 15g in the fuge. Backflow will only happen in the sump tank (not the fuge) since water is just going to drain from the fuge into the sump. So I figure at best we can shave off a gallon of overall water volume in your sump to account for the equipment (skimmer and pump/return pump, float switch, heater...etc.) yet the water level is still going to remain the same. There will be a little fluxuation with evaporation inbetween the times when the level in the return chamber drops and when the ATO actually tops the chamber off.
What it boils down to essentially is that your sump system would be able to handle Approximately 10G of backflow, should it need to. But with proper installatioin of your return and the moderate amount of water that remains in the tank untill it drops below your overflow we should be able to minize that to just a few gallons or less.
Basically you will be increasing the overall water volume of your tank by approximately 28 Gallons.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/300#post_3314723
So does anyone think that the sumprefugium will take care of all of the filtering requirements of this display with'
"I won't bother seeding the display, my goby won't let anything alone long enough to seed"
I think it would be best if we could seed the display. It should be seeded, as I recall we had a bit of a shocking event in the recent past did we not? Since we are starting with a display that is already full of livestock, the more we could get the tank up to par with beneficial organisms the better off the system and it's inhabitents will be. I almost forgot about that, glad you brought it up, Spanko as that will be a challenge we should address for sure.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Good point Henry....I would like to see the DT seeded..... With all the beneficial creatures being added below Flower you still have the same issue with the sand bed in the DT. It is relatively useless, and nitrification/denitrafication process still will not be correct. Your pods and such will move back and forth, but the vital bristle worms we had discussed elsewhere IMO won't make the journey or very few to the DT, to help the process. I would strongly suggest seeding the DT as well. Is there anyway possible your goby taking a temporary residence with your friend for a time being?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/300#post_3314723
So does anyone think that the sumprefugium will take care of all of the filtering requirements of this display with'
"I won't bother seeding the display, my goby won't let anything alone long enough to seed"
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Is it just me or are the thread alerts down? At some point I think we should honestly try to get the thermos trades going again!!!!! It would be a tremendous help to all that run sand beds, and any new setups to help things along!!!!!
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

Well I had hoped that some critters would be able to be safe in the rock, so I was getting a few pieces of live rock to reseed them..I thought the sand in the refugium would be enough. BOO HOO you said I could keep the goby if I had a remote sand bed.
My friend is an old guy and he wants to sell and get out. He is in his 80s so how long he is going to be there is up in the air and he is in Wisconsin...it's good drive for me to get there. If I give up the goby I give him up. I will follow your advice. If he has to go, he has to go. Please advise.
Oh and I can't really understand the information on my sump tank...you say 42g then say 28g ...backflow 13g ?????? Real simple yes or no....Do I need to worry in a power failure that the water that siphons back will overflow the sump?
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/300#post_3314771

Well I had hoped that some critters would be able to be safe in the rock, so I was getting a few pieces of live rock to reseed them..I thought the sand in the refugium would be enough. BOO HOO you said I could keep the goby if I had a remote sand bed.
My friend is an old guy and he wants to sell and get out. He is in his 80s so how long he is going to be there is up in the air and he is in Wisconsin...it's good drive for me to get there. If I give up the goby I give him up. I will follow your advice. If he has to go, he has to go. Please advise.
Oh and I can't really understand the information on my sump tank...you say 42g then say 28g ...backflow 13g ?????? Real simple yes or no....Do I need to worry in a power failure that the water that siphons back will overflow the sump?
With the way that we will advize you on how to set everything up once it gets there then no...you will not have to worry.
Sorry for the confusion. The sump/fuge is going to give you approximately 28 Gallons of extra water volume.
The sump tank itself will hold 13 gallons...the fuge tank will hold 15 gallons. Give or take a little bit for everything that is going to be in there...sand, equipment...etc.
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
SORRY TO ALL UP FRONT BUT........
I'm going to be a jerk here and mention something that should have hit me earlier on. We keep speaking of simplicity and ease of maintenance. I just had a brain fart and couldn't help but think of the CPR hang on refug setup. The only difference is that, well, Acrylic (Shawn) is building this. SO.....my question is this.
Why not make a 48Lx 7Dx 30T tank? It would hold about 36 gallons of water and would be fed from a pump on the inside of the DT. It would then gravity right back into the DT. No power outage issues, No maintenance on the OF to worry about, No split drain, No plumbing of any kind. It could be opened and placed, plugged in and let life take over. The Gravity feature would allow any critter to make the adventure unharmed, since there isn't any pump to go through. The only issue I have is the skimmer right now.
The ATO could be left alone, short of moving some hoses around. Maybe make the tank a little shorter to allow the hoses from the ATO to remain hidden.
 
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