Flower's Sump/Fuge Build

acrylic51

Active Member
Not at all against going with the dual drains!!!! I just threw the single out there as thoughts...... I know 1 1/4" can be a bear to find at times what you need. My buddies called earlier stuff is ready, told them I would try to get over before work tomorrow, so hopefully I can.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/240#post_3314298
Poly filters are goo at what they do, but you put another factor into the mi Meowzer when you do that. Poly filters, along with other types of pads, socks need constant maintenance. You are then constantly running water through decaying matter, so you are defeating our main goal, unless you are dedicated to rinsing it every other day?
As far as running chemi pure, carbon; I feel Flower woul be better served using something on the line of a phosban reactor and be very effective if filled with whatever media, and she wiul conserve space and electricity since the reactor could/would be fed off the return pump.

I know you guys are busy, but I really just would like an answer...if you don't run media in a sump..how does it work as a filter? LOL...and what is a reactor? I looked up sumps and filtration but I can't find an answer to my question.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
You don't have to run any type of media in your sump!!!! Shut your return pump down during feeding to prevent food from being sucked to the sump. Your LR and sand is your filtration. With rubble rock in the bubble chamber you increase it as well as in the fuge area. There I no true set rule as: "to do or not do". Ailey dependent on how a system is setup, but IMHO I feel people rely to much on the mechanical side and don't take the necessary steps to maintain or operate it properly.... Again I go back to using Poly filters, filter socks, etc.... They all have to be maintained an cleaned, and monthly or bi weekly isn't cutting it in my book.
Do a search on phosban reactor, and you should see a pic an brief description on it....
 

meowzer

Moderator
Sorry Flower...I can not answer that :(
BUT Acrylic....it take me 2 seconds to pull this piece of poly...and 2 seconds to place one back in....I change it every other day..(sometimes less..LOL) I usually cut a bunch and keep them made up to size...so every month or so...MAYBE 10 minutes of cutting
I believe Henry replaces his poly daily......this stuff is cheap...and IMO....worth the few seconds it takes to change it
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/260#post_3314329
Sorry Flower...I can not answer that :(
BUT Acrylic....it take me 2 seconds to pull this piece of poly...and 2 seconds to place one back in....I change it every other day..(sometimes less..LOL) I usually cut a bunch and keep them made up to size...so every month or so...MAYBE 10 minutes of cutting
I believe Henry replaces his poly daily......this stuff is cheap...and IMO....worth the few seconds it takes to change it
Meowzer by no means was I saying you were incorrect in the use of poly!!!! I was stating how it could be misused when not serviced regularly!!!!! Again takes no time to change out, but some get lazy with it. Just as I use filter socks and yes I swap them daily...... It's a rituial; just as your morning coffee!!!!
 

spanko

Active Member
Yeah I use the polyester fiber fill, fluffy cottony stuff. Change it every day in the morning when I dose the B-Ionic. Remember this is a 29 gallon biocube, easy to get at.
Bag like this lasts around 6-8 months. $9.99
 

meowzer

Moderator
LOL....I know....I just was saying what MY way of doing it was...and I have a feeling Flower is very dedicated to her filter stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/260#post_3314331
Meowzer by no means was I saying you were incorrect in the use of poly!!!! I was stating how it could be misused when not serviced regularly!!!!! Again takes no time to change out, but some get lazy with it. Just as I use filter socks and yes I swap them daily...... It's a rituial; just as your morning coffee!!!!
 

monsinour

Active Member
If there is dedication to things, then I see nothign wrong with filter socks on the 2 drains. But what do I know, I havent been doing this stuff for very long.
 

flower

Well-Known Member

Well it still dosn't aswer how asump works as a filter. I know a canister filter traps good bacteria and that eats the ammonia..everyting converts to nitrates and the sand has bacteria that is supposed t turn nitrates into a harmless gas. But in a sump, water just flows from point A to point B ...one tank to the other so how does it filter anything?
I know there is a skmmer in place, but that removes organic yuck only...What aout the good bacteria? Surely a little bit of rubble rock isn't enough.
 

spanko

Active Member
Sump......An additional water reservoir, typically under a tank, to keep equipment out of sight or increase the amount of water in a system.
Refugium....A physically sectioned off portion of the water column (and accompanying substrate), inaccessible to predators, such that it allows and promotes the proliferation of micro crustaceans and other plankton producing organisms.
Flower, a sump only works as a filter (aside from its very low biofiltration capacity) if there are filtering materials in it. (floss, pads, chemical bags, reactors, etc.)A sump remember is a place to hide equipment so that it does not clutter up the display area.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/260#post_3314349
Sump......An additional water reservoir, typically under a tank, to keep equipment out of sight or increase the amount of water in a system.
Refugium....A physically sectioned off portion of the water column (and accompanying substrate), inaccessible to predators, such that it allows and promotes the proliferation of micro crustaceans and other plankton producing organisms.
Flower, a sump only works as a filter (aside from its very low biofiltration capacity) if there are filtering materials in it. (floss, pads, chemical bags, reactors, etc.)A sump remember is a place to hide equipment so that it does not clutter up the display area.

Shawn says the sump doesn't need anything in it...is the refugium and sand in there able to take care of a 90g tank? I have live rock and sand in the display...is that all that I need to keep my tank clean and my critters healthy? What a relief that would be.
I'm a little concerned, maybe I should run my canisters off to the side until the sump refugium is established. There is so much media I run in those filters, I don't want to cause an imbalance. I say this because in the caniser filters you must not replace all the filter pads at one time or you get ammonia spikes caused by loosing too much good bacteria at once.
 

meowzer

Moderator
Flower.....personally I would keep one canister.....I still have both of mine....as I have stated lots of time I use them mainly for flow...BUT...when I decided to start using chemi-pure elite.....I had a great place to keep it

Because this is all I use my canisters for.....I do not have to clean them weekly or bi-weekly.....I will not tell you how often (or not) I clean them
RARELY.....I just make sure the flow looks good, and go from there (I clean it when the chemi-pure needs to be changed) shhhhhhhhhhh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/260#post_3314391

Shawn says the sump doesn't need anything in it...is the refugium and sand in there able to take care of a 90g tank? I have live rock and sand in the display...is that all that I need to keep my tank clean and my critters healthy? What a relief that would be.
I'm a little concerned, maybe I should run my canisters off to the side until the sump refugium is established. There is so much media I run in those filters, I don't want to cause an imbalance. I say this because in the caniser filters you must not replace all the filter pads at one time or you get ammonia spikes caused by loosing too much good bacteria at once.
 

acrylic51

Active Member
Flower the sump can be configured to run many different styles, techniques. Yes with your LR and sand in both the display and fug area should support your tank..... You could google and search for weeks on sump setups and you will find quite a few very well established and thriving tanks that utilize just a sump an skimmer....an example could be someone who runs a BB tank.... Again many ways to skin a cat, just depends on the methods and regiment employed to maintain it.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/260#post_3314395
Flower the sump can be configured to run many different styles, techniques. Yes with your LR and sand in both the display and fug area should support your tank..... You could google and search for weeks on sump setups and you will find quite a few very well established and thriving tanks that utilize just a sump an skimmer....an example could be someone who runs a BB tank.... Again many ways to skin a cat, just depends on the methods and regiment employed to maintain it.

Your the best little brother ever! Everytime you post you make my day a little brighter.
I'm going googling...
 

acrylic51

Active Member
You can run the canisters while the new fuge seeds, but even for the flow aspect....more economical ways to accomplish that IMO.... Even using it to run carbon or Phosban or whatever would be better served and more economical in a reactor than the canister.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Personally I don't see why people put so much emphesis on mechanical filtration when running a sump/fuge in the first place. It seems to me that all it really does is work against you. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong here.
Filter socks and other mechanical filtration, like Shawn mentioned work in some of the same negative ways that canisters do. They provide an area for all of the undesireable stuff to build up in which your dirty water has to pass through becoming even more contaminated. That's one of the major drawback of canister filters, how many people does anyone here know who cleans the mechanical filtration in their canisters everyday or even once a week for that matter?
I believe it's been determined buy some pretty smart folks that both your skimmer and your fuge are most effective when each are being fed the dirtiest/rawest water possible. The skimmer needs that stuff to build up some level of gunk inside of it in order for it to run effectively (well most skimmers at least). And a fuge is teaming with life and those organisms all need to be fed in order to thrive and multiply the way we want them to, so why take that away from them? This is why you'll never catch me with a filter sock on the drain that feeds my fuge.
The skimmer is already going to pull out much of the organic waste and uneaten food. Not only does it skimm it but it completely removes those organics from the water all together which is a huge benefit over canisters in itself. That's why a ~good~ protien skimmer is worth it's weight in gold.
Your skimmer, the CUC, the benificial organisms in your live rock and sand all the way to your corals and fish are all means of mechanical filtration so that should be all you really need as long as you're not going overkill with the food. The bacteria growing in the rock and sand will take care of the ammonia and nitrites...and the macro algea or plants (whatever you decide to keep) will consume the nitrates. Those plants need food/nutrients in order to thrive and perform their jobs well too. So the way I look at it is that the entire system as a whole is one big filter and each piece of equipment and including your livestock all play a vital role in how that system functions.
Now if you want to throw some filter floss in your bubble trap or possibly a sock or two on the drains that come from the fuge to the return chamber for a little extra water polishing then by all means I say go for it. But to think that one needs to have some form of great mechanical filtration on your drains as the water comes in IMO is missing the whole point of having a sump/fuge in the firstplace. Asside from some of those great benefits above it should provide for easier and less maintenance, which IMO is why most people take the plunge and risk possible floods in the first place in order to achieve all those great benefits. And yes, it's a good place to stash heaters and thermometers...etc.
Shawn has picked what I believe is an excellent design for your sump/fuge, Flower. It's basically excactly like the one I've made only it's two tanks instead of one. It's based I believe off of one of the most popular designs that Mark from Melevs Reef (if he actually was the first) has ever come up with. And it explains alot why it has become so popular. Not only will it allow you to feed dirty water to your skimmer and fuge seperately but it will serve as a remote sandbed as well. With a simple turn of a valve you will be able to completely isolate the fuge from the rest of the system should you ever need to.
Again, please, somebody correct me if I'm wrong in any of this because if I am then I'd rather someone say so than not say anything at all. And Flower, I hope this helps in some way clear things up a bit in the understanding of how a sump/fuge works as a filter.
 
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