Flower's Sump/Fuge Build

meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
IDK Flower......I still use the canister for running chemi-pure elite and such
The poly is just to catch anything that was missed.....I am NOT GOOD at explaining stuff :( BUT...It was really easy to do...LOL...which means a lot to me

IMO the poly is catching the tiny particles that everything else missed
POSIDEN....I am having issues with the quotes stuff too
....notice this is above the quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314124

Okay...lets try it again...the baffles sepeate the chamber of the skimmer and retun in my sump. So that last baffle would get a piece of eggcrate attached with feeding clips and poly in between. Otherwise I don't see any filtration, just moving water and a skimmer. How can that outdo a canister (and I know it does) with all the media it has in it?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/240#post_3314129
IDK Flower......I still use the canister for running chemi-pure elite and such
The poly is just to catch anything that was missed.....I am NOT GOOD at explaining stuff :( BUT...It was really easy to do...LOL...which means a lot to me

IMO the poly is catching the tiny particles that everything else missed
POSIDEN....I am having issues with the quotes stuff too
....notice this is above the quote

I have to get out of here and get to work...I will talk at you tomorrow...Have a good night!
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
Not Flower......WTH????
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/240#post_3314129
IDK Flower......I still use the canister for running chemi-pure elite and such
The poly is just to catch anything that was missed.....I am NOT GOOD at explaining stuff :( BUT...It was really easy to do...LOL...which means a lot to me

IMO the poly is catching the tiny particles that everything else missed
POSIDEN....I am having issues with the quotes stuff too
....notice this is above the quote
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posiden http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314125
Yes, and No. Things do get a little more involved then this. It depends on the type of OF one is running. A HOB for instance, can only flow as much as the U tube can handle. That comes from the diameter of the U tube, and from the pressure difference between the two levels of water. That's why the larger HOBs will run 2 U tubes. By putting in a larger bulkhead in a HOB, you wont be able to flow more water. You will have less noise, or a chance of less noise from said larger bulkhead. Yes, the final say in what can flow through a bulkhead is the bulkhead diameter or the feed pipe to the bulkhead.......however. Placing a larger pipe, or hose on the opposite side of the bulkhead is a good idea and is not a waste. Again, you will be able to run a much more quiet drain that way.
A drain such as the one in question, a Stockman or a Durso type drain. Relies on air to remain silent. hence the hole in the top, or the air line going inside of it to "tune" the drain. Water coats the walls of the pipe and has a inner core of air. That's why bigger is better. Even after the bulkhead. A good example of this is a drain setup that has a few tight turns in it. A larger drain pipe will allow it to run more quietly.
On the Herbie or BeanAnimals design. A full siphon is employed to make the drain run silent. It also allows for more flow through a smaller diameter pipe since you don't want the air in it. You can turn or twist all you like (Within reason on Beans. He runs an open channel pipe) and run totally silent, as long as the restriction of the pipe size/length will flow the required amount.
I'm not trying to call you out, or be an a$$. That's just how I read your post and I think some confusion "could" come from it.
I'm sorry Flower, I didn't mean to get off topic or, nor did I want to confuse you in any way. Just disregard my post for the time being.
You are correct, and I did say that if one wanted to try and increase the the drain capacity that the size of the U-shaped channel would come into play. Never said that having a bigger size hose would be a total waste, just saying it won't do anything to increase the drain capacity by itself. Don't worry about calling me out on anything, by all means if I give same bad information I would hope someone would call me out on it or at least help clear the air. But you're absolutely right on the fact that having a larger line would help quiet things down to some extent. By how much...I don't know, personally I don't see a 1/4" being a huge amount of difference if the back of the overflow is going to be covered but I don't see why it should be completely covered anyway since that will hinder some of the air from getting in there in the first place in order to help silence the flow.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/240#post_3314137
IDK Posiden....this quote issue does not seem to be happening to everyone....I noticed Corey quoted you and was able to post underneath....I can not,,,, Florida Joe couldn't either....

It tried to mess with me earlier, I couldn't get under the quote, then I cleared it and tried again and was able to? Crazy things going on around here lately.
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/220#post_3314102

I watched the video, it was the same one I saw before. It looks very simple but whaever you were talking about didn't match what they were talking about...or it didn't seem to. Coray and Shawn says for me not to worry, they will put as much as possible together before they send it. Corey says I may have to glue one thing and they have given me pictures on where to run the hoses.
Shawn still has to build it, so I have time to look at some things and try to get a better understanding. I guess the biggest mystery for me is how to regulate the water in the sump and display tank. I see the sump isn't full and it looks like each section has a different water level..then add in the ATO...yes I'm quite lost.
Stuff I keep churning over in my mind:
I know the skimmer needs 8 inches of water to run so that chamber needs at least that amount of water in it. The middle section is where the return pump is, and that's where the ATO hose must go..so that level of water must remain the same at all times.( what level I don't know) . The refugium is taller and wll overflow to fill the return chamber. The return pump becomes the most important piece because if it fails the whole system falls apart. The overflow has to have a hole in the tube to prevent a constant siphon if the return pump goes off because of power failure or stops running. There has to be enough room in the sump for extra water just in case the DT to starts to flood...

Oh and where would I put Polyfilters or any other media in a sump?
Flower - this schematic might help a bit and if anyone wants to add anything to it. Good Night
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Gee am I late. Like 13 pages late.

1) use pvc. It's easy to work with and flex tubing will greatly restrict water flow.
2) build a pvc overflow. cost like $20 max and is quiet and reliable
3) use storage containers. And don't forget the back can extend behind the tank. With the small side facing forward I think you will find you can fit a large container in for the refugium
4) use a small(er) container for the sump with the larger container draining to that sump.
5) I would not use the skimmers or canisters.
all in all just my .02
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
I stand corrected sir. Sorry. I will admit I got lazy and did not read your last couple of sentences.
Circles, cylinders are very funny thing. A great geometrical shape IMO. Off topic but, do you know why man holes are round?
By simply adding 1/4" to the diameter. You increase the SA of the opening by 1/2 if I'm not mistaken. That's huge. Also, IIRC CPR reccomends using the next size up in hose size for the drain then the bulkhead for best performance.
At 2:35 ish seconds, it starts in on hose size.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zVGwdRVHU4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/240#post_3314135
You are correct, and I did say that if one wanted to try and increase the the drain capacity that the size of the U-shaped channel would come into play. Never said that having a bigger size hose would be a total waste, just saying it won't do anything to increase the drain capacity by itself. Don't worry about calling me out on anything, by all means if I give same bad information I would hope someone would call me out on it or at least help clear the air. But you're absolutely right on the fact that having a larger line would help quiet things down to some extent. By how much...I don't know, personally I don't see a 1/4" being a huge amount of difference if the back of the overflow is going to be covered but I don't see why it should be completely covered anyway since that will hinder some of the air from getting in there in the first place in order to help silence the flow.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posiden http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/240#post_3314158
I stand corrected sir. Sorry. I will admit I got lazy and did not read your last couple of sentences.
Circles, cylinders are very funny thing. A great geometrical shape IMO. Off topic but, do you know why man holes are round?
By simply adding 1/4" to the diameter. You increase the SA of the opening by 1/2 if I'm not mistaken. That's huge. Also, IIRC CPR reccomends using the next size up in hose size for the drain then the bulkhead for best performance.
At 2:35 ish seconds, it starts in on hose size.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zVGwdRVHU4
Well that makes sense then why they try and sell you the bigger hoses as far as performance goes. But I wonder, if a CS50 rated for 300gph would actually give you 300gph if your went with a 3/4" hose which is the same size as the bulkhead? Or would you have to go with a larger hose? You see, this is why I drilled my tank lol. There are alot of what if's as far as overflows are concerned IMO. But we wan't to give flower the best that we can in order to have a sump/fuge while staying in the budget that will also be easy for her to set up once she gets it. So drilling is out of the question.
Man holes are round for wide variety of reasons but there is one very important reason in particular for shape of the cover. And when I get my offer...if I like it, I'll give you the answere!
 
monsinour

monsinour

Active Member
Round man hole covers are for the simple fact that they cannot fall through. The circle is the only shape that cannot be turned on a side or rotated enough to fit through itself and fall down into the sewer.
Al - If you are going all out on your schematic drawings, if you watch the video I posted you can see where the aqualifter goes and what the cover looks like. The cover does not create a tight seal on the CPR overflow so there is air coming into it. I use the hole on the cover to stash the hose with water coming from the lifter pump. Also, if you want to draw in the auto top off device into the section of the sump that contains the return pump, that might help flower.
@all : is there some kind of safety feature of an auto top off device that does something when the power goes off and the float is higher than normal? Wouldnt we want the fuge to overflow into the compartment with the skimmer in it as opposed to the compartment with the return pump?
Anyways, if I am needed on the phone to walk you through this Flower, let me know.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/240#post_3314144
Flower - this schematic might help a bit and if anyone wants to add anything to it. Good Night


Wow...Al! I actually understand perfectly now...Thank you. Truly a picture speaks a thousand words

Folks: As for getting your words under the quote...I use copy paste allot. My paste goes on top sometimes at first. I delete that line and go back and put my curser where I want the paste and it pastes where it should.
Now I have another question...All the stuff I have read on remote refugiums says to be able to take it off line if need be. So is it possible to put a plastic shut off valve on the line leading to the refugium?
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
Yes A plastic flow control/shut off valve to the refugium - I am pretty sure Shawn & Corey will have that.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/240#post_3314129
IDK Flower......I still use the canister for running chemi-pure elite and such
 
The poly is just to catch anything that was missed.....I am NOT GOOD at explaining stuff  :(    BUT...It was really easy to do...LOL...which means a lot to me

 
IMO the poly is catching the tiny particles that everything else missed
 
 
 
POSIDEN....I am having issues with the quotes stuff too
....notice this is above the quote
Poly filters are goo at what they do, but you put another factor into the mi Meowzer when you do that. Poly filters, along with other types of pads, socks need constant maintenance. You are then constantly running water through decaying matter, so you are defeating our main goal, unless you are dedicated to rinsing it every other day?
As far as running chemi pure, carbon; I feel Flower woul be better served using something on the line of a phosban reactor and be very effective if filled with whatever media, and she wiul conserve space and electricity since the reactor could/would be fed off the return pump.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Shawn are you dead set on wanting to go with the smaller overflow with the one drain? Was looking at fittings at lowes and for the vinyl hose thinkin it would be alot less fittings and easier to run two lines than to split this stuff. Only reason I say this is because like posieden pointed out on the cpr video that they recommend going with a larger diameter hose which would be 1 1/4. hard to find all the necissary parts in that size without running alot of adapters.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top